Stonerhino Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 The headlong charge into an larger better equiped fleet and then lowering the shields was an act of desperation. Not any real attempt to bait Apharius to engaging Russ. Kind of like "I hope he falls for this otherwise I lose". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Agreed, Rhino. Horus' lowering of the shields was also a bit out of "despair", wasn't it? In 'Visions', the Ultras/Wolves/Darks are about to enter the system, if memory serves. At the beginning of Scars, Russ was all about the "Let's see where this anger takes me". I'd like that to be more than just a badass boast, even though anger doesn't stop torpedoes from killing your face. But we've yet to see Russ unbound. He is remarkable at hiding whatever savage instincts he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 But we've yet to see Russ unbound. Actually we have. He got a lesson in crawling from Angron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 He was trying to teach his brother a lesson, so he was definitely at his most rational there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entei Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I'm not disputing what you wrote except for one detail. I don't consider Alpharius' secretive, indirect confrontational personality and combat doctrine to be on the same level as the Warmaster's true loyalties, or that Russ' ignorance on why his ordersw ere changed to raze Prospero runs along the same vein as Alpharius' most basic traits. There's some things that must be really, really common knowledge, especially to those most in the know, as Russ must be. Magnus' support of Librarians, Lorgar's worship of the Emperor, Guilliman's Ultramar Realm, Alpharius' habit of having other people pose as him while doing other things. That said, Russ being disappointed is acceptable. He's in an emotional state and really wants to pound on someone. But despite that, he couldn't have been all that surprised. That'd be like being shocked to just now finding out that the Iron Hands make extensive use of bionic replacements. Dude, you're talking about the Alpha Legion. How would his brothers know that? Nobody except for Grammaticus outside the Legion knows about Omegon, and the only primarch who had any kind of relationship with Alpharius was Horus. I find it hard to believe that Russ would be close enough to Alpharius to know that he uses doppelgangers. I don't think Alpharius casually told all his brothers "Hey guys, just so you know, sometimes I have Ranko or my secret twin Omegon play me." The thing about the Alpha Legion is that there is barely any common knowledge about them, except that they dislike open warfare and may use dishonorable methods. Secrecy is their defining trait, why would one of their largest secrets be common knowledge? Nobody even knows what homeworld they have. I think this just shows how little information Alpharius' brothers have about him. Russ expects him to be honourable, because most of his brothers would have been, and he is very desperate at that moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Didn't Alpharius face Horus when they first found him by boarding Horus's ship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Hmm, I don't know, Entei, the Alphas' tactics, at least, were well known. I fully agree that doppelgangers and twins were taboo, but the Legion's love for disruptive and stealthy approaches were public knowledge. Guilliman even commented on them being dishonourable. So Russ' act was probably born of despair, for the far larger part. Maybe he counted on Alpharius teleporting because the Wolves were so badly beaten, but you'd have to be a bit crazy, even you were a Primarch, to go risk it all at the last battle by duelling with the goddamned Russ. @WoT: He did, he ambushed Horus' ship, boarded it and threw himself at Horus, but recognized something common between them at the last moment. I hope it's ok if I put this bit by Sandlemad on Warseer here, to add to WoT's complete account of part V. Coincidentally, WoT's spoilers are used over at Warseer. Go you =) He fairly kicks ass here. Charges a Contemptor dreadnought full on, severs its assault cannon in one swipe and before it can land a punch has driven his elbow right into its sensor module. Very brutal, definitely there as a contrast to the Khan.It's also particularly interesting that just before he arrives, the dreadnought is nearly bowled over by a gale-force gust of wind insidethe ship. Bjorn for a moment thinks a bulkhead has been breached but then he realises that the rush was not that of decompression, nor was it natural - the winds that howled across the chamber had the ice-rimmed redolence of Asaheim. And then Russ charges. So there'ssomething to be said for Russ having some sort of psychic power, or at least some individual manifestation of the warp-ness of the primarchs.Bjorn also describes him as coming with an aura of murder that made the air hum, and uses the term "a wall of soul-shock". This could perfectly well be poetic licence applied to Russ's sheer presence on his part but considering that people are supposed to occasionally went into cardiac arrest upon meeting a primarch, I think it's something more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 No problem, I may miss/forget/not pick up certain points so the more views the better! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I don't think I've thanked you, man. Every Wednesday you bring some very comprehensive spoilers and endure our endless questions. Many thanks =) PS: Keep it up, pretty please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 He was trying to teach his brother a lesson, so he was definitely at his most rational there. Right, that's why Russ (supposedly, the controlled, rational one) charged Angron (supposedly, the crazy, impulsive one). I think it's safe to say that sometimes, Russ has his feral, enraged moments and Angron has his lucid, reflective moments. It's a bit more complex than "Russ=rational, Angron=hulk smash", as Aaron himself has pointed out. You could interpret the scene from multiple angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 He was trying to teach his brother a lesson, so he was definitely at his most rational there. Right, that's why Russ (supposedly, the controlled, rational one) charged Angron (supposedly, the crazy, impulsive one). I think it's safe to say that sometimes, Russ has his feral, enraged moments and Angron has his lucid, reflective moments. It's a bit more complex than "Russ=rational, Angron=hulk smash", as Aaron himself has pointed out. You could interpret the scene from multiple angles. He may have charged his brother, but in the end, he let him live. None of his actions during "Night of the Wolf", despite the damage he and the Wolves took in the ham-fisted attempt to teach Angron a lesson, show him being unbound. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Don't start with this crap again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 True, we keep going back to this matter. It's overly discussed by now. It seems Jaghatai spends a good deal of time with his mortal staff. Is any description given on his way of dealing with others? Both Astartes and mortal? He seems to be a pretty down-to-earth and approachable fellow, which is curious since his image tended to be one of aloofness and 'No time to talk, heads must roll, fool." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 True, we keep going back to this matter. It's overly discussed by now. It seems Jaghatai spends a good deal of time with his mortal staff. Is any description given on his way of dealing with others? Both Astartes and mortal? He seems to be a pretty down-to-earth and approachable fellow, which is curious since his image tended to be one of aloofness and 'No time to talk, heads must roll, fool." He plays his version of chess with the female administrum a lot it appears and they speak openly to one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Didn't Alpharius face Horus when they first found him by boarding Horus's ship? Yeah. Once Alpharius' pirate flotilla outmaneuvered the SW ship Horus was in, the two met on the deck of the said ship. It wasn't really a fight, as Horus quickly understood who Alpharius really was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Didn't Alpharius face Horus when they first found him by boarding Horus's ship? Yeah. Once Alpharius' pirate flotilla outmaneuvered the SW ship Horus was in, the two met on the deck of the said ship. It wasn't really a fight, as Horus quickly understood who Alpharius really was. ...or Omegon... We can't say for sure that it was actually Alpharius that was there ofc. Hehehe... ...and to my knowledge it was not a SW ship, it was a LW ship... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Didn't Alpharius face Horus when they first found him by boarding Horus's ship? Yeah. Once Alpharius' pirate flotilla outmaneuvered the SW ship Horus was in, the two met on the deck of the said ship. It wasn't really a fight, as Horus quickly understood who Alpharius really was. ...or Omegon... We can't say for sure that it was actually Alpharius that was there ofc. Hehehe... ...and to my knowledge it was not a SW ship, it was a LW ship... Just read the English IA, it's not as I remembered from the French one. I'll have to check it out, but yeah, LW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Didn't Alpharius face Horus when they first found him by boarding Horus's ship?Yeah. Once Alpharius' pirate flotilla outmaneuvered the SW ship Horus was in, the two met on the deck of the said ship. It wasn't really a fight, as Horus quickly understood who Alpharius really was. ...or Omegon... We can't say for sure that it was actually Alpharius that was there ofc. Hehehe... ...and to my knowledge it was not a SW ship, it was a LW ship... Just read the English IA, it's not as I remembered from the French one. I'll have to check it out, but yeah, LW. It belonged to Wolves in Space. Who cares if they came from the moon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High MarshalGR Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 He was trying to teach his brother a lesson, so he was definitely at his most rational there. Right, that's why Russ (supposedly, the controlled, rational one) charged Angron (supposedly, the crazy, impulsive one). I think it's safe to say that sometimes, Russ has his feral, enraged moments and Angron has his lucid, reflective moments. It's a bit more complex than "Russ=rational, Angron=hulk smash", as Aaron himself has pointed out. You could interpret the scene from multiple angles. Russ was reflected as having a nice balance between his rational, tactical mind and his feral, highly aggressive instincts and controlled impulse which is something I have not seen from Angron. I agree that this scene has multiple angles, but the "bigger picture" shows some things about them too. It was in another thread where we went analytically about this so I won't go in details. In my eyes, generally speaking (not for exceptions), Russ was an honourable warlord (he was true to his oath to the end as far as I know) while Angron was a berseker who ended up "killing for the kill" and had a bad history (Nyceria) behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Can we please the topic alone? It's off-topic and all it is is an exercise in chasing our own tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilMAC25 Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 But we've yet to see Russ unbound. Actually we have. He got a lesson in crawling from Angron. Please, let's not start this argument again. It will only get the thread locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Just to add another voice to the rational bulwark: This is about the Scars book being issued in parts. This is not to discuss a beaten to death topic on the merits or lack thereof of Russ and Angron during the Night of the Wolf. For the love of god people, we do not need to jump down that rabbit hole every single time Russ is brought up. Let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 So. The Alpha Legion still can't make up its mind on a color scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 *Scribe hears a call from a thread....a call to battle.* .... Its never us who starts it you know.... Scars is turning out great btw, I wish it was a single release, but much love to those sending out the updates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Liking the portrayal of the Khan in this. Very interested in seeing how he finally makes the decision to join the Emperor/Loyalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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