knife&fork Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Let me start with a statement; For as long as I have played, I don't think BA has ever been in a worse place than we are now from a competitive standpoint. This isn't to say we should all give up on our favorite chapter, just being honest. The general hits we took going from 5th to 6th have all been discussed to great lengths, but the real struggle is because of the 6th ed codices. All of these have introduced elements to the meta that (imho) currently makes it impossible to build a well rounded, pure BA force. I'm even having doubts on lists with allies using BA as your main. ----------------- Let's look at what BA does well: 1. Good, fast infantry. With a focus on CC. 2. Vehicles of many different kinds. 3. Speed There's general trend of shooting being more important and our units being overpriced. Adding to that problem is that armor ignoring weapons are just about everywhere. Lances, plasma, melta, rends, general AP2 and AP3 shooting as well as special abilities are probably more common than they ever were. MCs are getting more and more common too. Vehicles are also in a really bad spot right now. Anything with AV that isn't a flyer is extremely vulnerable. Melta hasn't disappeared from the meta as people predicted. All 6th ed codices have units faster or more mobile than BA, commonly seen in the good builds. Or they have enough range on their guns to simply not care. -------------- So our expensive infantry is easily neutralized by cheap and plentiful low AP or volume of fire, speed advantage reduced and our vehicles have a hard time putting out enough damage before getting popped.... What niche is left for us to fill in today's meta? I'm honestly struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Each new codex does seem to make it harder and harder for us. I am still enjoying a little success at tournament's finished 9th out of 40 at the last one. Running a pure BA list. It will only get worse before it gets better, I suspect the new coming nid codex is going to cause us alot of new problems! But I am really enjoying being the only ba player at tournaments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianj253 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I'm right there with you K&F. I play in a good amount of tournaments (1-2 a month), and it's getting harder and harder to do well. I recently qualified for FOB, but I don't think it's worth going with Blood angels. It's just to hard for us to make a list that can deal with all of the power list out there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Agree 100%. We were expensive when we were first released, now it's even worse with all the hits we took. K&F you think the new Space Marines Codex will offer a stop gap for us or is that just wishful thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Looks like Kenny Boucher went 6-2 at the Nova Open playing pure Blood Angels. Anyone have any idea what he ran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gory_v Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Forge the Narrative just released their new podcast re:blood angels. Listening right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I am very curiouse about the list ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 Agree 100%. We were expensive when we were first released, now it's even worse with all the hits we took. K&F you think the new Space Marines Codex will offer a stop gap for us or is that just wishful thinking? I think it will be better than old SM as allies but at the same time it's better at countering units from our codex. All in all the meta will get tougher for units from codex BA. Looks like Kenny Boucher went 6-2 at the Nova Open playing pure Blood Angels. Anyone have any idea what he ran? I suspect that's a combination of good player and a counter meta list working out, rather than him stumbling on some kind of magic bullet. Kinda like that guy who won a big tourney last year with foot Eldar? Still, it would be very interesting to hear what he brought and what he played against! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meniscusmike Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I agree that the BA are having a hard time in 6th. I've been using codex marines with BA allies for some time now (which will only get better from next week, squee!) but I can see myself using pure codex red marines till the new codex comes out :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I'm currently working on an MSU tactica that I think is a surprisingly effective way of playing BA in 6th edition. Ideally want to get a batrep using it to the full to demonstrate how it works before I finish it off though. In a nutshell, 5 man squads in razors or 10 man assault squads with 2 specials that can split into a 5 man 'objective squad' and a 5 man 'damage squad' work nicely. Devastators and biker squads also work well in 5 man units, and I think we can do well playing them intelligently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I'm guessing you guys don't feel that our limitations can be shored up with allies? Also, do you feel we should get a FAQ entry to use Graviton weaponry or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Don't think we will, based on past precedent, and don't think we will need to. The threat of these new weapons and units will affect armies doing an all-comers list, which should see hellturkeys and riptides/wraithknights only appearing in manageable quantities, so a volley of sniper rifles should weaken them sufficiently that a normal ba list should be able to take them out for example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSauce Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I can't imagine we'll get any FAQ when SM drops - especially not one to allow any of the new weapons/vehicles. For me, winning with BA has become a lot about making smart choices. ASM are still good versus the right targets, and 3+ with FNP is survivable enough to be a real pain for most units to get rid of. Sometimes the right decision is to take your marines and move away from the enemy (which goes against everything I want my BA to be). And all it takes is one model left on the table to win the game - and most of the time, that's all I have left. At least it makes the games go faster. I am looking forward to running SM/BA lists after the new codex drops, though. I've run some BA/Guard lists as well that were fun to play and shored up some weaknesses that straight BA suffer from (low model count, generally weak T1 shooting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gory_v Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 His list is posted on FtN Facebook site. Funny that it looks kinda similar to what I've been proposing with a few differences yet I've gotten nothing but criticism for my lists. We can def shore up with allies if you're worried about the lack of scoring troops. Seems that his double las ravens wipe everything that threatens the assault squads pretty quickly. If you're worried about reserve rolls then find a way to get the points for the ADL with comms, though I don't know who would be manning either in my full BA list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 GW rarely gives with their FAQs, they predominantly take away. They won't give us access to the grav weapons, same way as we won't get access to the storm talon, or the thunderfire cannon, or the stalker, or things like that. Heck, just look how long it took to get that beyond asinine storm shield tomfoolery sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 One day, guys. Sharing is caring. Cough, cough, Storm raven, cough. The waiting is the hard part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Storm raven only got moved because it was a big kit so GW could sell more money by making it available to more SM players. That's why Death From The Skies moved it. One way street. +Warning. The preceding sentences contained vitriol and cynicism and should not have been read by anyone.+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 His list is posted on FtN Facebook site. Funny that it looks kinda similar to what I've been proposing with a few differences yet I've gotten nothing but criticism for my lists. We can def shore up with allies if you're worried about the lack of scoring troops. Seems that his double las ravens wipe everything that threatens the assault squads pretty quickly. If you're worried about reserve rolls then find a way to get the points for the ADL with comms, though I don't know who would be manning either in my full BA list. FtN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Oh I know we probably wont get anything with the FAQ, it's just funny how we've suddenly lost all our Graviton Weapons from the Great Crusade when, due in main to our artistic tendencies, our Techmarines are supposedly better than most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Recent NOVA standings, shamelessly stolen from here: Players - 223 Blood Angels - 7 Daemons - 37 CSM - 16 DA - 14 Dark Eldar - 7 Eldar - 28 Grey Knights - 12 IG - 15 Necron - 22 Orks - 5 Sisters of Battle - 3 Space Marine - 4 Space Wolves - 9 Tau - 37 Tyranids - 7 Players - 223 That's right. . . 44% of the field was primary detachment of Tau, Eldar or Daemons Top 30 Eldar Tau Tau Eldar Tau IG DA Tau Grey Knights Tau Tau Necrons Daemons Necrons Eldar Daemons Eldar Daemons Eldar Eldar Eldar Daemons Daemons Daemons Tau Blood Angels Daemons Daemons Eldar Tau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I am very curiouse about the list ...Kenny's Blood angels list Next Level Painting is taking Blood Angels to the NOVA Open Thanks to all the votes it is clear to me that i have to bring them back. I have play-tested my list ideas 4 times in the NOVA missions primer pack. I feel pretty good about it. Here is the list i am running 1850 Pts - Blood Angels Roster - Blood Angels Nova https://www.facebook.com/ForgeTheNarrative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 It looks like this: Mephiston Libby 5x Terms -4x TH/SS Snippioso Corbs Jump Priest 10x Jumpers- 2xflmer, 1x PS 10x Jumpers- 2xflmer, 1x PS 5x ASM in Flamerback- Flamer Raven- extra armour Raven- extra armour Pretty cool list. I'm impressed he got the jumpers to work. Those overladen ravens are just insane, though - suprised they werent shot out of the sky with all the Tau there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israfel Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 · Hidden by Morticon, September 2, 2013 - points cost listed Hidden by Morticon, September 2, 2013 - points cost listed 1850 Pts - Blood Angels Roster - Blood Angels NovaHQ: Librarian in Power Armour (1#, 100 pts)1 Librarian in Power Armour, 100 ptsHQ: Mephiston, Lord of Death (1#, 250 pts)1 Mephiston, Lord of Death, 250 ptsElite: Terminator Assault Squad (5#, 220 pts)1 Terminator Assault Squad, 0 pts4 Terminator with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield, 180 pts = 4 * 45 (base cost 40 + Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield 5)1 Sergeant, 40 ptsElite: Sanguinary Priest (2#, 180 pts)1 Sanguinary Priest, 0 pts1 Brother Corbulo, 105 pts1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour, 75 pts = (base cost 50 + Jump Pack 25)Elite: Furioso Dreadnought (1#, 125 pts)1 Furioso Dreadnought, 125 ptsHeavy Support: Stormraven Gunship (1#, 205 pts)1 Stormraven Gunship, 205 pts = (base cost 200 + Extra Armour 5)Heavy Support: Stormraven Gunship (1#, 205 pts)1 Stormraven Gunship, 205 pts = (base cost 200 + Extra Armour 5)Troops: Assault Squad (10#, 220 pts)7 Assault Squad, 126 pts = 7 * 181 Assault Marine with Flamer, 23 pts = (base cost 18 + Flamer 5)1 Assault Marine with Flamer, 23 pts = (base cost 18 + Flamer 5)1 Sergeant, 48 pts = (base cost 28 + Melta Bombs 5) + Power Sword x1 15Troops: Assault Squad (10#, 220 pts)7 Assault Squad, 126 pts = 7 * 181 Assault Marine with Flamer, 23 pts = (base cost 18 + Flamer 5)1 Assault Marine with Flamer, 23 pts = (base cost 18 + Flamer 5)1 Sergeant, 48 pts = (base cost 28 + Melta Bombs 5) + Power Sword x1 15Troops: Assault Squad (6#, 125 pts)3 Assault Squad, 54 pts = 3 * 181 Assault Marine with Flamer, 23 pts = (base cost 18 + Flamer 5)1 Sergeant, 28 pts1 Razorback, 20 pts Link to comment
Israfel Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 It`s pretty light on troops and emphasizes on close combat hitting power. It relies in SR`s to survive quite a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I'm calling lucky on that list. I mean no disrespect to the guy that played it, but I can't see that list doing that well without some serious fortune. The amount of skyfire/interceptor/both that armies can get these days, ESPECIALLY Tau... The top 3 armies present at the tournament have great anti-flier capabilities in Tau's broadside/riptide shenanigans, Eldar crimson hunters amongst other things, and FMCs being able to vector strike the into the middle of next week from Daemons. And don't get me started on Necrons. That list loses so much punch without the ravens. I'm guessing that the jumpers were mostly hidden until late game, and that there was a lot of reliance on the hammernator/corbulo/librarian death star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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