Memento Of Prospero Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 It can't be full of flaws and be good because of knowledge of the meta and skill. Otherwise any of the opponents he faced could have exploited those flaws. This list exploits meta weaknesses much more than its flaws allow your opponent to do so. It's proven to work, we just need to try it before bashing it. Otherwise we are just armchair quarterbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 It can't be full of flaws and be good because of knowledge of the meta and skill. Otherwise any of the opponents he faced could have exploited those flaws. This list exploits meta weaknesses much more than its flaws allow your opponent to do so. It's proven to work, we just need to try it before bashing it. Otherwise we are just armchair quarterbacks. It's proven to work in a particular environment- which is I think what K&F was highlighting more than anything else. I think the "bashing" (and i dont agree it was bashing) was rather commenting on where it would be weaker in our respective environments. That being said, it would be worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianj253 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 You can look at his match ups here http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/NOVA-Open-2013/leaderboard One of his loses was to the player who won the tournament and the other a player that got 25th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 4, 2013 Author Share Posted September 4, 2013 You can look at his match ups here http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/NOVA-Open-2013/gameday One of his loses was to the player who won the tournament and the other a player that got 25th. quote to fix ------------------------ You know what, I think I'm just going to play for 'fun' for a while. It's pointless to 'chase the dragon' so to speak, trying to discover that perfect list. I'll work a bit on my WHFB project and just play crazy or themed BA lists until I either feel less weary or we get a new 'dex. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 You can look at his match ups here http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/NOVA-Open-2013/gameday One of his loses was to the player who won the tournament and the other a player that got 25th. quote to fix ------------------------ You know what, I think I'm just going to play for 'fun' for a while. It's pointless to 'chase the dragon' so to speak, trying to discover that perfect list. I'll work a bit on my WHFB project and just play crazy or themed BA lists until I either feel less weary or we get a new 'dex. I'd like to do that too, but the problem is that mine is quite a competitive area with a lot of solid players. I know that all the BA that frequent the club I go to on a regular basis (3 of us regularly, others on occasion) all have the same issue with BA - points cost. We've reached this completely independently of each other as well; its that we just find ourselves outnumbered all the time, even by other marine forces, and this is an issue that won't go away. As it stands, I'll be flipping between my BA and my Dark Eldar until I get complete burnout, or cave and play the 'easy mode' codex.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 4, 2013 Author Share Posted September 4, 2013 I'd like to do that too, but the problem is that mine is quite a competitive area with a lot of solid players. Crazy or themed doesn't necessarily mean bad. And is every game really that prestigious? If you are about to burn yourself out why not try some extreme ideas and see where they take you? That's what I'm going to do, starting with the LR spam I've been itching to proxy and the 1000+ pt jump pack DC deathstar list I played a few times in 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 You know what, I think I'm just going to play for 'fun' for a while. It's pointless to 'chase the dragon' so to speak, trying to discover that perfect list. Good man. I remember a while back I had a thread in BAAL where I tried wrapping my head around that "perfect list" for certain point values so I could finally pursue "finishing" my army. No such luck. Our time in the spotlight will come again. Until then have a blast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skawolf Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 One benefit of GW giving us a FAQ is that they would be able to sell the new models to us. (I'm sure this has been brought up, but I didn't want to read 3 pages before posting... tired right now, only reason i'm still awake is to watch the last episode of futurama :( ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 One of the biggest misconception about competitive play is the pursuit of the perfect list. No such thing will ever exist - you just need to learn to live with dealing with the flaws you create. Some players have a better ability to do this than others. Mobility is hugely undervalued because players often look at raw damage output / toughness nearly. Intercept's value is blown out of proportion around these parts, and you can feel it in many of the discussions about unit selection and compositions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feuermann Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 With wolves rumoured to be released in may, we only need to wait one year aprox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeraven Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Getting back into 40k recently...looking at all my marines my BA are my largest and most loved collection...i'll try out the new marine dex with my scythes but i get the most enjoyment out of my blood angels...and it is really hard to make a really great list. But Death Company rock and roll it seams and my luck with stormravens has been awesome...night scythes seem to be completely unable to tag them down...wierd..i think that well painted models always do better than ones that arnt..and in my local group i am usually the only one to show up with a completely painted force. lol.. i am gona keep running jump pack ASM and death company with termies and stormravens...for me its about ramming red blood crazed marines down their throats with awesome bling and style..lolz!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 One of the biggest misconception about competitive play is the pursuit of the perfect list. That's why I wrote 'perfect' and not perfect :) The thing is that right now a competitive BA list will be walking the razors edge. You'll never have the answers for everything, every time, with any list. But right now (with BA) you have to specialize to the point where you have very little margin of error, not just to your own mistakes, but mostly to things that are normally out of your control in a tournament. Personally I enjoy the first type of list, one that works but is difficult to play. The second kind not so much, working hard but knowing that your result is still going to be very dependent on the luck of the draw and a few critical rolls isn't that enjoyable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Personally I see revival of BA razor spam with the new DA portable 4++ on bike, did test this and its very durable. 4++ AV 11 is more durable than it seems on paper, however its positioning its a key to make it work. On the other hand, I am afraid that BA will never have an answer to demon flying circus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Di- or tri- Raven list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Triple raven is not that competitive if you consider amount of points you have in AA, perhaps new SM AA toys might shift the Demon flying circus back from its pedestal of glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I'd like to do that too, but the problem is that mine is quite a competitive area with a lot of solid players. Crazy or themed doesn't necessarily mean bad. And is every game really that prestigious? If you are about to burn yourself out why not try some extreme ideas and see where they take you? That's what I'm going to do, starting with the LR spam I've been itching to proxy and the 1000+ pt jump pack DC deathstar list I played a few times in 5th. No, but there are games where it'll just be no fun. The last game I played with my BA was an 8th company themed list which was pretty much all assault marines (some bikes and attack bikes, a raven and a Baal), precisely because I wanted to try something extreme. It was fun, but only because I was playing against the right sort of opposition (e.g another fun and not-so-serious list). Against the sort of tournament quality lists that people bring to my LGC, I'd be on my backside in about 2 turns. 35 assault marines may be fun and fluffy, but it won't make a scratch in FMC spam daemons, triple-riptide Tau, Eldar serpents or Necron wraithwing, all of which appear on a regular basis. I'd like to at least be a competitor in the games that I play, as opposed to simply removing my models and very occasionally being allowed to roll dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Depends on your model collection I guess, but if you know your meta that well I bet you could bring some nasty counter-lists that you find enjoyable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 You know what throws a monkey wrench in any meta? Death company with Corbulo, Azreal and a chaplain or libby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 You know what throws a monkey wrench in any meta? Death company with Corbulo, Azreal and a chaplain or libby. This I approve of! lol must give it a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gory_v Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I like the direction that this thread has taken now. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesi Castigon Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I've found since 6th edition has been released the Blood Angels have, for me anyway, actually got better, sure we lack AA capability without aegis defence lines or allies but we still have troops that players of other armies fear through reputation alone, like DC and SG. We do lack numbers of models and lack fancy new stuff but all in all our codex is pretty strong. I've found the easiest way to beat newer codices is to simply rather than try to plan for what my opponent may take, is force them to respond to my Blood Angels rather than the other way round, this has worked for me recently against a heresy era legion army and a Tau army (though I may have got lucky). I personally believe that the Blood Angel is, with the right choices still a competitive army to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skawolf Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I have found the Tau to be quite surprised when i drop 4 pods in their deployment zone 1st turn. Gives me the distraction I need to bring my jumpers up the field to mop up from the chaos that my podding units caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Lots of T5 Bikes with FNP and Divination and lots of AV13 are the key to success IMO.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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