Unremembered Empire....initial review

[Blindhamster]

small note on the scene where Robute is nearly killed by the squad of alpha legion posing as ultramarines as people keep complaining that it belittles Robute and implies he's diminished in some manner.

 

Keep in mind that single sniper technically kills Fulgrim in Angel Exterminatus and it's only the exposure to chaos (and i believe the effects of the stone given to peterabo) that mean he doesn't die.

 

And Robute has no weapons at the time and doesn't even have a full suit of power armour on, including his head being exposed in an enclosed space where he believes he is amongst friends.

 

Now from a Game mechanic perspective, imagine a squad of Seeker Marines with BS5 and the special AP3 ammo that the Alphas can get access to or one of the easier to wound rounds that could be used instead, 20 rapid firing shots that hit on 2s and all get rerolls to hit and wound due to Robute being the designated target. I'd actually bet on Robute going down for the count.

[Wade Garrett]

The real question this scene raises is why in ten thousand years the Alpha Legion hasn't just impersonated a bunch of Custodes, walked into the palace and pulled the plug on the Golden Throne.

 

Because that would be the only group of dudes in power armor that haven't turned out to be Alphas yet.

[Marshal Rohr]

That's easy Wade. Custodes are taller.

 

Or

 

They did and Alpharius is currently impersonating the Emperor.

[Blindhamster]

get the impression that Custodes are different enough that they wouldn't be able to pull it off, The custodes are also too good at the counter espionage on account of their Blood Games to be caught out by it (deliverance lost even has the raven guard impersonators panicking about being so close as they arent sure they can even pull of being a raven guard under the kind of surveillance they might receive.

 

Honestly the scene with Robute was cool because in current time the Alphas regularly impersonate the Ultras so theres a bit of a nod there, It was also cool because it shows just how quick Robute is (reacts quick enough to not be blown away by rapid firing bolt guns at point blank range) and how baddass he is (kills the entire group without any weapons and without most of his armour)

[Wade Garrett]

Blood Games? That preps them for guys in falsehoods crawling through the air vents and the like. How is that going to help the Custodes know the "Constantin Valdor" who just came in the front door isn't the real deal, considering an Alpha impersonating not just random Ultramarine #5 but a Marine that was personally known to Guilliman was able to stroll into Rob's inner sanctum and fool the Primarch himself?

[Greyall]

To be fair, Guilly took very little time to spot something fishy. Also, there was physically no way for Guilliman to distinguish Thiel from Falsethiel. Helmet on means no face and vox distortion.

[Emperor's Furor]

I am sure a AL assassin squad would have stock standard bolter rounds rather then hand loaded specially designed and built shells.....

 

Even in 30k there are limited stocks of the good stuff like mproved bolter shells. Going prim arch hunting? You are going to be loaded for it.

Seeker squads in Massacre of both Sons of Horus and Alpha Legion are allowed to take specially made power armour piercing ammo.

[Cerbero666]

About the Bolt shell VS Power Weapon I was thinking like you Wade when I read it. Lorgar beat his bare head with Illuminarum and Guilliman just get some broken bones, why in hell would a single boltgun to his head kill him? Well a blow with Illuminarum covers a bigger zone than that of a bullet, therefore it get less probabilty to penetrate his skull but obviously its enough to crash part of the skull, but not neccesarily a killing blow. In the other hand a bullet has more penetration power because the impact is reduced to a more concentrated zone, all the power in a single spot. If the bullet enter Guilliman skull, even just a bit, and then explode, it will be an explosion that would damage his brain, and possibly destroy the skull from within. So the bullet reach Guilliman skull, fracture it, enter a bit and then...SPLORCH! that's it bye bye Guilliman. 

[Gree]

If Primarchs were that vulnerable to bolter shots to the head, then the likes of Angron or Ferrus would have been dead long ago.

[Kol Saresk]

Didn't Ferrus die by losing his head to a sword?

[DarthMarko]

Fulgrim was sniped with some special needle sniper rifle....If the bullet went through his eye he would have died IIRC...correct me if I'm wrong

[Kol Saresk]

Fulgrim was shot. Perturabo actually thought he was dead. According to Fulgrim, he only survived because of the way the bullet ricocheted in his skull(something about following the hairline).

 

But still. Vulkan. Fork.

[Gree]

 

Ferrus was beheaded by a daemon sword wielded by a another Primarch. I'd say that's a good step over a bolter.

[Emperor's Furor]

Kol that incident might not even of happened and if it did then it was a Primarch who did it.

[Greyall]

The fork is not that shocking, Primarch meat is still meat. It's ridiculous, but it was a torture context.

[RapatoR]

The real question this scene raises is why in ten thousand years the Alpha Legion hasn't just impersonated a bunch of Custodes, walked into the palace and pulled the plug on the Golden Throne.

 

Because that would be the only group of dudes in power armor that haven't turned out to be Alphas yet.

Well, the Custodes didn't got into chaotic massacre, where was hard to keep track of you own casaulties. Also I really doubt AL inflitrates other Astartes on daily basis.

[Kol Saresk]

Still. Sword. Fork. If a Primarch's skin is supposed to be bolter proof, then how did a fork pierce it?

 

Also, WoT, Curze had Vulkan for months according to UE. So I'm betting real. But yes, I remember the whole thing where the only scene we can conclusively say was a pipe dream was the escape with Corax.

 

And IIRC, the daemon wasn't even in the sword at that point because it was in Fulgrim. And after Fulgrim decided to "end it all", it just kicked him out and into the painting in some weird Dorian Grey.

 

But in reality, what we have just done is gone from "It's the weapon" to "It doesn't matter what the weapon is, it's who wields the weapon", since Vulkan being killed by a fork is being defended by "Curze did it".

 

So I move that next time, Abnett should actually have Alpharius use the bolter so every can be happy and say "Alpharius did it."

[Knight of the Raven]

So the Alpha Legion became even more of a cheap Team Fortress 2 spy?

 

Frankly, I'm expecting an Iron Hand to go "Alpha Legionnaire sapping' mah sentry!' in the next novel.

[Gree]

If a fork can kill a Primarch then Angron should have died when an entire fortress collapsed on him in False Gods, or when Fulgrim took a power fist to the face, or when Corax was shot by that lascannon or when Perturabo was shot by those Iron Hands or...

[Kol Saresk]

A fortress never fell on Angron. He was caught in a wall as it came tumbling down. And since there were people who survived the Twin Towers falling on them... yeah. I think a Primarch in power armor has a chance of surviving.

 

So like I said, what we have done is gone from the weapon in question to who was wielding the weapon.

[Marshal Rohr]

So how about that scene where Guilliman argues with his mom?

[Gree]

A fortress never fell on Angron. He was caught in a wall as it came tumbling down. And since there were people who survived the Twin Towers falling on them... yeah. I think a Primarch in power armor has a chance of surviving.

 

So like I said, what we have done is gone from the weapon in question to who was wielding the weapon.

A bit more than a wall I would say.

 

"‘What’s happening?’ he shouted over the noise.

No one answered and Loken fell as the top of the breach suddenly exploded in a sheet of flame that reached hundreds of metres into the air. Rocks and metal were hurled skywards as the top of the wall vanished in a massive seismic detonation.

Like the bunkers in the cities, the Brotherhood destroyed what they could not hold, and Loken’s reactive senses shut down briefly with the overload of light and noise. Twisted rubble and wreckage slammed down around them, and Loken heard screams of pain and the crack of splintering armour as scores of his men were pulverised by the storm of boulders.

Dust and matter filled the air, and when Loken felt safe enough to move, he saw in horror that the entire crest of the breach had been destroyed.

Angron and the World Eaters were gone, buried beneath the wreckage of a mountain.

Before Varvarus could react to the senior preceptor’s declaration, the rubble behind him shifted and groaned, cracks splitting the rock and metal as something vast and terrible heaved upwards from beneath the ground.

At first Loken thought that it was the second seismic charge he had feared, but then he saw that these tremors were far more localised. Janizars scattered, and men shouted in alarm as more debris clattered from the breach. Loken gripped the hilt of his sword as he saw many of the Brotherhood warriors reach for their weapons.

Then the breach exploded with a grinding crack of ruptured stone, and something immense and red erupted from the ground with a bestial roar of hate and bloodlust. Soldiers fell away from the red giant, hurled aside by the violence of his sudden appearance.

Angron towered over them, bloody and enraged, and Loken marvelled that he could still be alive after thousands of tonnes of rock had engulfed him. But Angron was a primarch and what – save for an anathame – could lay one such as him low?

‘Blood for Horus!’ shouted Angron and leapt from the breach.

The primarch landed with a thunderous impact that split the stone beneath him, his chain-glaive sweeping out and cleaving the entire front rank of Brotherhood warriors to bloody rain. Ephraim Guardia died in the first seconds of Angron’s attack, his body cloven through the chest with a single blow."-False Gods.

 

Angron survives a massive explosion that killed scores of Astartes, something that even Loken was surprised by.

[Greyall]

@Marshal: Does she come off as power-hungry?

[depthcharge12]

Do we even know if the fork killing was real?

 

 

Wasn't Vulkan in sort of a fugue state and couldn't distinguish reality from not?

 

I haven't read the book, but from spoilers it seemed like he was in and out of it due to torture (which is completely possible, and a method of torture to screw with the victims circadian rythms and whatnot)

[Aristander]

@Marshal: Does she come off as power-hungry?

 

I didn't think she did - she was pushing for the declaration of Imperium Secundus, and initially for RG to proclaim himself regent, but that appeared to me because it was the most expedient thing to do.  Once other options became available, I can't remember her pushing his candidacy again