Unremembered Empire....initial review

[Brother Captain Achilles]

If that was still the case, I'd still think this is a negligible exception. However, Unremembered Empire didn't really show that at all. Konor, for instance, clearly relied on a machine throughout his career. It's shown in Guilliman's mental wanderings as he uses the same machine, though it is done to highlight the quiet strengths Konor exhibited. Not a crutch, but a tool that made him all the better a ruler. Other than that, Macragge is clearly shown as a technologically advanced world, which uses it quite extensively.

 

I think what we have here is a misinterpretation. It seems like you took that quote to mean that their lack of reliance means lack of use, while it seems to be shown now not as a lack of use but as a lack of obsession or over-reliance. Using this machine to till the fields is okay, but be prepared for when it can't or won't work, rather than automatically starting with not using the machine because it won't always work.

 

Practical mindset and goals, Even if Abnett didnt intend this level of depth of reference to himself when he wrote this book it shines through all the same.

[Marshal Rohr]

I would imagine the idea of Macraggesparta has gone by the wayside.

[Kol Saresk]

I thought it was Macraggerome, but without the parties, insane Caesars and the coliseums.

[Brother Captain Achilles]

I would imagine the idea of Macraggesparta has gone by the wayside.

 

Only because its need to be the crown of ultrasparta been replaced by its newer identity as that one place that as a group (and not an isolated one) of planets shows a propensity for the celebration human goodness and hope.  Which 30k/40k needs as it in turn makes it all the sweeter when the bad guys come and mess up the nice house and yard. Burning Armageddon is like lighting trash on fire. But burning the verdant and living fields of Calth from the planet? I think that hurts a little more.

[Wade Garrett]

I would imagine the idea of Macraggesparta has gone by the wayside.

Oh, what could have been....

 

KNOW NO FEAR

 

Kor Phaeron:

The Seventeenth will murder the very sun itself, Roboute!

 

Guilliman:

Then we will fight in the shade.

 

BETRAYER

 

Angron:

NOTHING IS EVER MY FAULT! Slobber drool growl courage! Blargle argle honor! Yaargh!

 

Guilliman:

Courage? Honor? THIS! IS! NUCERIAAAAA! (boot to the chest)

 

UNREMEMBERED EMPIRE:

 

Curze:

I am the Dark King! I am terror! I am madness! I will commit such horrors that for a thousand years none will dare to even SPEAK of Maccrage!

 

Guilliman:

Even a Dark King can bleed.

[Marshal Rohr]

I gave up what I thought I knew about the HH when Dorn disowned Sigismund.

[Brother Captain Achilles]

Wade I regret that used all my likes circlejerking with my fellow brothers of Ultramar for that post deserves one.

[Gree]

I would imagine the idea of Macraggesparta has gone by the wayside.

 

I'd say there are certain elements that have been ignored over the years. The whole ''Macragge abandons weak infants to die'' has not really appeared much outside of the Index Astartes article it first appeared it. (Did it appear in the codices?) Perhaps GW doesn't want it's poster boys to be part of a culture that has some rather horrible customs like infanticide. (Even if said customs were taken historical Sparta.)

 

Frankly, I've basically tossed out the Index Astartes articles at this point, so I'm not particularly bothered by Guilliman's supposed hypocrisy.

[Daddywarcrimes]

I gave up what I thought I knew about the HH when Dorn disowned Sigismund.

That was one of the little things that I really liked.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

I Loved this book.  This really moved the ball down the field and reveled things that we had never heard of before. 

 

 

I loved the interaction between IH, Dantioch and the IF, Polux.  Now that the Imperial Fists have the secret strats of their Nemesis they should prove to be better of the two.  When Polux fought the Night Haunter with Dantioch riding shot gun, I could not get enough.

 

The information about what the Perpetuals are is great.  I have been trying to tell people that they were the Slann for over a year, now I am sure. Interesting that one killed MLK jr.  Bet they killed Biggie and 2-Pac. 

 

I guess I can stop thinking that the Lion might be a traitor.  That notion was put to bed in a good way.  Too bad there is no more Dreadwing.  Perhaps they were split off to the other Unforgiven? 

 

And OMG a LOYALIST WORD BEARERS!!!  There is one.  Maybe he will not be killed and make it into the mix of the Grey Knights.

 

I also loved the Afterword.  I hate it when people try and say the authors of the HH series don't consult with one another and thus make mistakes with the Lore.  It is not the first time one has said how much effort they go through to get it right with one another but to have it in a book like this might squash all that nonsense for good 

 

 

Great book. 

 

 

[RapatoR]

What I'm fearful of is that given how the Heresy so far has been an extended session of "Kick Rob's feet out from under him. Kick him when he's down. If he starts to get up, kick him some more!"

Wade, he needs to be kicked and kicked good. Otherwise you got no good explanation for him not being on Terra.

 

 

[Greyall]

That's what I'm most curious about, at this point in the Heresy. Why will Guilliman stay in Ultramar?

 

Maybe Sanguinius just tries a blind jump to Terra and Roboute stays behind as regent for the Imperium Secundus.

 

I really can't see Guilliman staying if they're sure the Emperor is alive.

 

But if fluff stays as it is, the Primarchs currently in Macragge will pretty much disperse - Sanguinius to Terra, the Lion joining Russ and also going to Terra - but getting lost -, Guilliman staying behind, Curze eventually escaping.

[Emperor's Furor]

Don't think Narek is a loyalist, he still went out of his way to kill the Iron Hands Sniper in Vulkan Lives just to see who was best. I don't think he cares whose right or wrong any more as a long as the stain on the Word Bearers sole is extinguished.

[Kol Saresk]

I Loved this book. This really moved the ball down the field and reveled things that we had never heard of before.

 

 

I loved the interaction between IH, Dantioch and the IF, Polux. Now that the Imperial Fists have the secret strats of their Nemesis they should prove to be better of the two. When Polux fought the Night Haunter with Dantioch riding shot gun, I could not get enough.

 

The information about what the Perpetuals are is great. I have been trying to tell people that they were the Slann for over a year, now I am sure. Interesting that one killed MLK jr. Bet they killed Biggie and 2-Pac.

 

I guess I can stop thinking that the Lion might be a traitor. That notion was put to bed in a good way. Too bad there is no more Dreadwing. Perhaps they were split off to the other Unforgiven?

 

And OMG a LOYALIST WORD BEARERS!!! There is one. Maybe he will not be killed and make it into the mix of the Grey Knights.

 

I also loved the Afterword. I hate it when people try and say the authors of the HH series don't consult with one another and thus make mistakes with the Lore. It is not the first time one has said how much effort they go through to get it right with one another but to have it in a book like this might squash all that nonsense for good

 

 

Great book.

They still aren't the Slann. They're human. They just happen to be humans who have the ability to reincarnate, with each life adding onto the next. No different from how the Emperor is supposed to have appeared as various great historical figures. Otherwise causing the extinction of the human race, which they call their race multiple times, wouldn't be a problem.

 

Also, Dantioch is an Iron Warrior, not an Iron Hand.

 

[Kol Saresk]

Don't think Narek is a loyalist, he still went out of his way to kill the Iron Hands Sniper in Vulkan Lives just to see who was best. I don't think he cares whose right or wrong any more as a long as the stain on the Word Bearers sole is extinguished.

That's why so much of the portrayal in UE was confusing, because at one point he goes,

 

'I believe in the Word of our primarch,' Narek continued simply, ‘and I believe that Word makes us loyal to the Emperor. We are of the Word, and thus we are of the Emperor. It was ever thus. I despise the steps my Legion-kin have taken to embrace the Outer Dark. Too many steps, too far. You, Kha, and you, Ulkas. You have polluted yourselves and our Legion. Yet I thank you. I thank you for bringing me here. You have done a great service to the loyal Seventeenth.'

 

The specific wording "loyal to the Emperor" is such a weird wording to use. Because in Vulkan Lives, he was portrayed as someone who believed the Emperor was a god, but the wrong god and that the Heresy was right, but the Word Bearers shouldn't be so accepting of the favor of their New Gods, or the warp-taint that comes with it. At least, that's the impression I walk away with.

 

And even at the end, Prayto says that he is different from Dantioch because Narek will not renounce his Legion and he still sees the Loyalists as enemies but "he is loyal."

 

[Greyall]

So just let him loose on another traitor Legion. Soon enough they'll all be worshipping the Chaos Gods anyway, so he should have no qualms.

 

Failing that, bolter therapy.

 

In fact, maybe outright bolter therapy is safer than having a loose cannon around.

[Kol Saresk]

Except that he only wants to purify the Seventeeth. Otherwise he couldn't care unless you get in the way. He's similar to a Night Lord in that respect.

[Emperor's Furor]

Roboute says he's be to questioned and then executed.

[Greyall]

So he doesn't have any problem with bullet-skewering his brothers' skulls in order to get to his Primarch?

 

He might come in handy in an assassination attempt against Lorgar, but not if he turns his gun on his kill teammates for killing his fellow Word Bearers.

 

@WoT: Aye, assassination attempts aren't really Guilliman, Sanguinius or the Lion's cup of tea.

[Kol Saresk]

 

Well Guilliman is killing him because he's a Word Bearer. Something similar was seen between the first interactions of Dantioch and Polux, due to the Battle of Phall where their Legions clashed.

 

But yeah, Narek has no problem bullet-skewering his brothers, especially those that are warp-tainted.

 

[Aristander]

I've had the idea of a successor chapter based out of the discussions between Guilliman and Prayto...something similar to the Blood Ravens, maybe?

[Kol Saresk]

A Chapter based on Narek?

[Aristander]

A Chapter based on Narek?

Think of the very first discussion where they reference Shakespeare, and how a Marine's greatest weapon is his mind.

[Kol Saresk]

Ah okay. Sorry, the change in topic was getting dragged along with me.

 

Hmm, possible. It'd basically depend on what they do with the Blood Ravens since just making them Loyalist Thousand Sons would do more than enough to cement that aspect.

[Greyall]

I see what you mean, but being well-cultured is a trait of most Ultramarines, I'd say - at least the officers.

 

Blood Ravens seem to me as being more about historical and technical data - though they'll probably devour fictional works, as well - if they find the time.

 

That part is just bloody awesome (started reading last night). Especially when the UM Librarian points out (to himself) how naive Guilliman can be about 'more regular humans'. Abnett rocks at character interaction.