[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[ThatOneMarshal]

I know I'm late to the leviathan dreadnought love party but I was wondering how one of these bad boys would do in a terror assualt list? I play against a lot of mecahnicum in my area so they might come in handy, though I don't know if it's worth losing our only heavy support slot.

[Slips]

Well, since you can take up to 3 per slot...

[Lord Asvaldir]

It's a tough competition for me between a deredeo and a leviathan. Deredeo really helps out with anti tank given how lacking terror assault is vs armor with one heavy support, but on the other hand leviathans are just amazing. Really tough choice. Then there's the choice of taking a drop pod or not with your leviathan. I'd say a drop pod is probably better for terror assault, I'd want a leviathan in range to drop it's phosphex discharger first turn right along with my infiltrating terror squads up close. 

[helterskelter]

Redistributing points from a deredeo you could get 2 hyperios tarantulas and 2 thudd guns, granted it's not a perfect match you cover your AA and medium AT duties. The thudds can engage a little bit more, and though you are losing out a little on the anti air, the hyperios are dedicated to the cause

[Black_out]

I like Leviathans for the reason slips gave, being able to get 3, potentially with drop pods, makes them a really good option imo.

[Slips]

If you take a Drop Pod for the levis, its 1 per slot at that point, like any dread talon.

[Hesh Kadesh]

With the exception that it cannot be 1:1 as per Orbital Assault. Although seeing as you have access to Terror Assault, it's of no bother.

[qwerty2jam]

Alright Night Lords me again....

 

So with our limited heavy support slots and it affecting our anti-tank, why have I not seen more mention of the praevian and the castellax?

 

They can secure objectives, darkfire cannon or whatever it's called is amazing for anti tank and then picking off termies, can be given night fighting to fit with our rite of war better, can cause fear, can have bs5 and -1 cover and ap2 power swords.....

 

This presents itself as probably the best anti tank option for me, as my heavy is filled with deredeo goodness.

 

Is there something I'm missing? Does anybody have experience with using them like this? Any tips?

[Tychii]

I don't really feel like that solves the problem, as the real problem is Av14 with ceramite, not without it.

My go to anti tank are melta bombs. I have just been testing out which platform I like the most. Right now for dedicated anti armour sacrificial units, I'm using attack bikes and jetbikes. Haven't decided which I like more though.

Castellex are fantastic but they are slow, and in a fast moving alpha strikey list they don't get into melee till turn 3-4. The points Id use on then I would rather have something a bit faster, but that is just me I suppose.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Your AT isn't limited at all. Dreadnoughts are 1-3 and elite, as are Grav Cannon Rapiers. Jump Packs Meltabombs are Troops. Meltagun support squads are Troops and can take Pods, while Seeker combimeltas are Fast Attack. Similarly Grav Speeders and Twin Las/Melta/dual hk missiles are Fast Attack, Primaris. Or various Lord of Wars.

 

Heavy Support AT is Lascannons HSS, HCB or MM Predators, Venator Sicarans, Vindi TD's, Leviathan CC (but don't have effective Grav without houseruling), and Caestus.

 

Of those... You have maybe Vindi TD's or Sicarans Venators which are used for that. MM predators and Caestus are infantry removal tools, HCB predators are what, 150pts and sit around 4 tables away dropping a S10 AP1 blast on something hopefully stupid enough to be in LoS of something that long ranged but unable to Move and Fire.

 

Leviathans are basically infantry chewers. Other popular HS options are multiuse Sicarans with Lascannons, Fire Raptors, Medusa, and Vindicators.

 

Infantry chewers. Guess what preferred Enemy S5 Assault 2 Deflagrate weapons are for? XD.

 

The other unit taken is the Deredeo. That is a multipurpose Antiair unit, capable of handling or damaging medium tanks.

 

This is one of my arguments to when people say the HS slots are full and not enough soaces. Yes and no. There aren't 4 must take units (although Medusa and Deredeo are Best in class for me, and persoanlly try to include at least 1 of thwe two.) that all compete for slots to fulfil vital roles (such as the Old Nids and Ork Dexes used to). The individual roles are filled better out of elites or fast attack, with the exception of mass removal being Lord of War or Heavy support.

[SkimaskMohawk]

People really seem to pass over the Javelin with twin-linked cyclones, multimelta and 2 hunter killers for 95pts. 5 str8 shots and can deepstrike and outflank, almost always giving you a good armour facing; deepstriking also lets you fire all your weapons. Pure money

[Lord Asvaldir]

I couldn't agree more Skimask, my terror assault lists always has 2 javelins in there, for their pts cost I think they are incredibly efficient. 

 

 

Alright Night Lords me again....

So with our limited heavy support slots and it affecting our anti-tank, why have I not seen more mention of the praevian and the castellax?

They can secure objectives, darkfire cannon or whatever it's called is amazing for anti tank and then picking off termies, can be given night fighting to fit with our rite of war better, can cause fear, can have bs5 and -1 cover and ap2 power swords.....

This presents itself as probably the best anti tank option for me, as my heavy is filled with deredeo goodness.

Is there something I'm missing? Does anybody have experience with using them like this? Any tips?

 

I think the castellax works just fine in a terror assault list. Given darkfire cannon is lance, it can deal with av14 and with bs5 with tank hunters they are going to do a far amount of damage. Plus they don't need to be fast, darkfires are long range. 

 

Now while it may be tempting to use castellaxes as a combat unit, since they can have a talent for murder I think that's a poor use for them. They are slow compared to the rest of the army, they won't get into combat quick enough. Better to have them camp on an objective and provide fire support with darkfire cannons. 

[ThatOneMarshal]

I thought that support squads can't have pods in terror assualt? Just veterans, tacticals, and terror squads?

 

For dreadnoughts, aren't you restricted to one in a Talon if you want a pod?

 

In regards to the javelins the only thing I would be scared of is Sicarians, which are quite popular in my area.

 

Otherwise I agree with what was said.

Edited December 19, 2015 by ThatOneMarshal

[Tychii]

The issue with lance is that armoured cerimite stops it from working. Anything av 14 is going to have it.

For sicarians I wod suggest metal attack/jetbikes, or javelins deep striking/outflanking. The missiles from the javelins should pop the sicaran the turn it comes in.

I'm not saying the castelax are bad by

Any means. But, I just don't think they fit into terror assault. As why would you want a 400point unit camping your deployment in a terror assault list?

[Slips]

The issue with lance is that armoured cerimite stops it from working. Anything av 14 is going to have it.

For sicarians I wod suggest metal attack/jetbikes, or javelins deep striking/outflanking. The missiles from the javelins should pop the sicaran the turn it comes in.

I'm not saying the castelax are bad by

Any means. But, I just don't think they fit into terror assault. As why would you want a 400point unit camping your deployment in a terror assault list?

No it doesnt.

 

Armored Ceramite stops Melta not the Lance USR.

 

Only Land Raider Achilles' are immune to Lance.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I thought that support squads can't have pods in terror assualt? Just veterans, tacticals, and terror squads?

 

For dreadnoughts, aren't you restricted to one in a Talon if you want a pod?

 

In regards to the javelins the only thing I would be scared of is Sicarians, which are quite popular in my area.

 

Otherwise I agree with what was said.

 

You'r right on tactical support squads, they are stuck to rhinos or footslogging for terro assault. Also with dreadnoughts just one per pod, so if you want a leviathan to fill up heavy support with a pod you're only taking one. 

 

As far as sicarans go yes they are a big threat to javelins, but 1) that threat can b midi-grated by splitting javelins into one speeder squadrons, plus javelins will die to most anti tank anyway, and 2) you could always outflank/deep strike if you're worried about javelins dying before they do damage. Lots of options. 

 

The issue with lance is that armoured cerimite stops it from working. Anything av 14 is going to have it.

For sicarians I wod suggest metal attack/jetbikes, or javelins deep striking/outflanking. The missiles from the javelins should pop the sicaran the turn it comes in.

I'm not saying the castelax are bad by

Any means. But, I just don't think they fit into terror assault. As why would you want a 400point unit camping your deployment in a terror assault list?

 

I'm fine with a 400pts unit camping because nothing else in my army is going to be, terror squads and pod units are going to be right in your face, I can afford to have one unit slowly advancing backfield contributing some solid anti tank firepower. Are castelaxes the best fir for terror assault? Maybe not because they are slow, but I still think they are definitely a very solid anti tank option to make up for the one heavy support restriction. 

[qwerty2jam]

thanks everyone for the great advice on this. I played a few games the other day and found 2 contemptors just a little slow on tank destruction so I'm looking to fill out the slots a tiny bit more.

 

In my head an alpha strike is flawed. I enjoy hitting hard and fast, with a majority of my force, but putting all my eggs in one basket is something I can bring myself to do.

 

Thus I don't mind having slow moving elements to my list, if you're being gunned down in the night by the horrors that are the night lords, and hiding in buildings thinking maybe they've missed you, it will be even more terrifying to see mountains draped in trophies stride out of the darkness.

 

Tactically I like having something that has a board presence from afar that can be brought in later game as a fresh combat piece that's already fearsome in its own right, let alone against worn units.

 

Combine that with the various objective grabbing missions, holding areas and denying line breaker, back board and late game elements are still needed (IMO) in an aggressive list like the night lords.

 

Thankyou for the javelin advice that seems very useful, I'm just worried about it against the damn ceramite Spartans that are all to popular in my meta.

 

Not saying anyone is wrong of course, all info and opinions are hugely appreciated!

[Marshal Loss]

Thankyou for the javelin advice that seems very useful, I'm just worried about it against the damn ceramite Spartans that are all to popular in my meta.

 

Graviton, either on rapiers or dreadnoughts. Once you go grav you won't go back, I was once a doubter but now I am a believer.

 

If not graviton, melta bombs work reliably. Anything else, even high strength weaponry, and you're relying on good rolls which may not come soon enough to stop the Spartan before it delivers its cargo. Thus, graviton

Edited December 20, 2015 by Marshal Loss

[Slips]

Yep.

 

Haywire is the easiest way to deal with any form of Av14 in 30k because Melta cant Instagib them (as it should be).

 

That or outflanking/deepstriking stuff into the side arc to bypass the Flare Shield.

[Black_out]

So could someone explain to me how to use Sevatar in combat or in a challenge? Specifically regarding his psychic power?

 

I haven't played since 5th and I know they've altered the psychic phase quite a bit and I'm planning on playing a game against my brother over Christmas break.

[Hesh Kadesh]

The psychic phase is now a phase between movement and shooting; and it works similar to fantasy if you ever played that. Essentially, you generate a warp charge which is a random roll boosted by further potential rolls from powerful psykers. Each power has a Cost, ranging from 1 to 3.

 

You may declare how many dice to throw at it, and you must make the requisite roll (normally a 4+) for the dice to coubt towards meeting the cost.

 

If the cost is met, the power goes off, giving the enemy a chance to deny (which works in a similar fashion). If it is not denied, the power takes effect, lasting unless otherwise specified until the start of the players Psychic phase once more.

 

Sevatar has some other rules in play, which IIRC, are 2 dice max and needs a 5+ to manifest.

 

When a challenge is accepted, unlike normal combat which uses majority WS and T, you only use the ones of the person you are challengeing, and unlike normal characters on combat, wounds in a challenge cannot be 'look out sir'd' which means some redshirt takes the wound instead.

 

Sevatar has WS7, I6, and a S5 AP3 rending weapon, +1 to wound if he outnumbers enemy, and rerolls failed hits wounds and saves, with Instant Death in a challenge.

 

Basically 5 attacks on the charge, hits on a 3+ w/ rr, wounds on a 2+ w/rr and rends on a 6, instantly killing anything non making their saves.

 

He'd obliterate Sigismund if only Sigi played fair and didn't have Eternal Warrior.

[Black_out]

Thanks for the explanation, Hesh that clears a lot of things up for me. I'm guessing the rerolls are generated through his power and not just from mastercrafted, am I right?

 

I hope at some point Sev gets EW. I hate the idea of him getting ID'd.

[Tychii]

I just hope the atrementar rules make them the baddest monsters around. Really hope they have two wounds but we will see

[Perry]

I've gone with a Leviathan dread for my Terror assault heavy choice. I would have preferred a load of Medusas but it doesn't seem right and against the in your face style of the army.

 

 

I'm looking forward to drop podding it in the enemies backyard, unleashing some volkite/ phospex or melta then charging in turn 2 with drill/ claw combo :P

[SkimaskMohawk]

Just to slightly correct Hesh, sevetar casts his power on the normal 4+, limited to two dice max and takes perils LD test on 7; normal lorgar is who succeeds on a 5+