[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[SkimaskMohawk]

terror squads dont get rhinos tho

[Vaz]

Just dreadclaw's eh

[qwerty2jam]

Well my $2 is that if people are running Spartans they are running ceramite and flare shields. So maybe swap the quads over for gravs, allowing for long range armour denial, as this would encourage more defensive play than a drop pod list would traditionally allow (unless going for a hammer and anvil approach) infiltrate them instead into prime positions with those rhinos, keep them away from that Spartan and then when the death star deploys from it, fold 3 x terror squads into the back and giggle as those units they underestimated take them apart slowly.

 

Not sure about flyers because no experience with them but I've read lots of mixed reports about them so be wary and make sure they fill a roll you need.

 

Problem with relying on fliers to go anti AV14 (if they even can) is that you're relying on reserve rolls and by the second turn that spartan has done what it needed to, it's survival means nothing. So have anti Spartan on the board turn 1.

 

Just my opinions, feel free to correct me all.

[qwerty2jam]

Hey so I know terror squads with volkite is effective, and I know with that option and drops they are some of the best troop choices......

 

But what about the heavy chainswords? Not as effective? It's a shame because they're just so damn cool, but in a cutthroat meta if I don't have effective units I won't pass muster.

[Tychii]

Chain glaives are basically +2str -1 attack. With no ap. I'd they were free probably you would take them, but even then I'm not 100% it would be all the time.

 

They just aren't good options. Especially when you can just krak grenade things instead when you really need the extra str.

 

Overall they are just a waste of points.

 

With that being said, they look soooooo cool that I still have a couple of them modeled. Although will probably never use them

[helterskelter]

If you ran a squad with a forge Lord with rad, hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's, precision strike and prefered enemy infantry, if there was something you didn't want alive, multi wound/dangerous opponent and in the unit of choice that you were assaulting you could force it to make the all the saves. Also if you can do it on turn 2 where you have a 50% chance of it still being night you do it at i5 on the charge.

If you really want the enemy dead, tag team with a volkite squad for softening up

[Tychii]

But, that would work perfectly fine with no heavy chain blades. The difference is only wounding on 2's instead of 3's. However in that example you would be losing out on 10 attacks. So I bet it's probably a wash.

[Caillum]

If you have "Talent for Murder" on your side, you'll wound on 2's in the above situation with chainswords, plus having an extra attack per model! This is why heavy chainblades are a bit lacklustre and Volkite chargers are so great!

[qwerty2jam]

Hhhhmmmm, well alright thank you all I'll stick with my delicious volkite for now.

 

On the topic of talent for murder....I don't suppose it applies to impact hits does it?

 

See I have a hole in my lists. 2 dccw grav contemptors are covering armour, a deredeo has air licked, and my anti infantry is our own amazing terror squads. The problem is I wanted a few more models on the board to start with, and I want them to be able to join the rest of the force on the enemy side of the board turn 2.

 

.....jetbikes.....t5 2+ And a 4+ jink (isn't it a cover save so 3+ in night fighting), heavy bolter, ccw, and very bulky? Only thing I wonder really is impact hits effected by our talent for murder?

[helterskelter]

Hammer of wrath isn't affected by talent for murder if that's what you are asking?

6 jet bikes should have you covered for outnumbering purposes too generally maybe 7 just to be sure

[Tychii]

Why would hammer not work, I thought hammer took place at int 10 step of combat?

[helterskelter]

I thought it wouldn't be as it's a special kind of attack, as it's in the special rules section of the big book. Might be one to email FW about to clarify with certainty perhaps

[qwerty2jam]

Well my thoughts is this...the exact wording states if your unit outnumbers the enemy models at any initiative step in which they fight in an assault they get +1 to wound.

 

Nowhere does it state it has to be an attack, and IF the impact hits do occur at the initiative 10 step as stated then I believe they would benefit.

 

RAW I think it is

[helterskelter]

Does make sense looking at it that way

[Caillum]

I think, given Hammer of Wrath is at Initiative Step 10, you will get the +1 to Wound. :)

 

And yes, Jetbikes will have a 3+ with Stealth, but they have a native 2+ Armour save, so it's only if you're hit with something really hard that you need it.

 

Balancing the number of models starting on the board with the number if Deep Strikers is a good challenge. Often the biggest deliberation I have when list-writing Terror Assault.

[qwerty2jam]

Well that seems to be an effective and interesting combo then, due to points I'm looking at 5 of them, 1 plasma and a praetor on jetbike. Good harass keeping at range and the ability to charge in and finish off units once they have been suitably softened.

 

A good quick way to deny objectives last turn as well if I recall objective holding correctly?

[Flint13]

^ Ah, there's an issue there regardless of legion.

 

Jetbikes are really awesome, as are Praetors. But jetbikes really need to be mobile to work as well as their points intend. Praetors loaded for space-bear, however, really want to be in combat to kill expensive things. Typically they are working at cross purposes. If you keep them as a harassment unit to charge in and finish off weakened units near the end of the game, you'll have been paying for a lot of expensive Praetor wargear that you won't have been utilizing to its full potential.

 

Not sayin it can't be done, and certainly not saying it can't be fun as hell. Just something to keep in mind ^_^

[qwerty2jam]

Ah it's probably more based of my specific needs sorry. See apart from my terror squads I have no squads a praetor could join, and I need him in the absence of special characters at this point level to get terror assault.

 

I also will be dealing with quite a few infiltrators, outflankers and general rapid forward units, so the idea is to simply soften up the annoying 20 man infiltrating tac squads or the sneaky 10 man vet squads with outflank then overrun them in combat for a quick kill.

 

If you have other suggestions absolutely let me know, just seems the best option for me so far

 

EDIT: I'm starting to think of the unit as a spear wielding cavalry unit, gunning + charging down any unit that gets into my backline or fleeing up the board to where my terror squads are ending lives should something bad like a termi-star get dropped.

Edited November 30, 2015 by qwerty2jam

[Lord Asvaldir]

If you really want a jetbike unit charging in an escorting your preator, I'd consider a jetbike command squad. It's not something I've ever tried and yes it's rather expensive, but a command squad is certainly meant to be charging in and killing things where a jetbike squad wouldn't be, plus given jetbikes are very bulky a unit of 5 with a preator is going to outnumber any unit short of a big terminator or tactical blob. 

[qwerty2jam]

Thanks for that Asvaldir, it's something I had considered but for far higher points cost than 2000. I'm okay with pricey units but that's way too many eggs in one basket.

 

I want to ask a question and it might seem blunt I hope no one takes offence....

 

Isn't taking a terror squad without volkite a complete waste of potential? I guess if you just want to pay the troop tax and keep it low but it's an amazing option...

 

I see people taking minimum tax squads with bolsters, who have little to no advantage over volkite imo and then doing mass anti infantry with something else, adding up to far more points for doing the same thing.

 

Am I missing something? Is there a purpose beyond what I've pointed out to taking a bolter equiped terror squad?

[helterskelter]

Depends entirely in how much you plan on shooting things. Saving 25/50 points on a gun you may or may not fire depending on your intentions can pay for itself elsewhere. Also they still have their rules that make them way better than the average bear however you choose to arm them

[Black_out]

Even with bolters they can pod in close and unload re-rolling loads of dice in the process. Even bolt pistol and chainsword with the shooting and charge could do some real damage too.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Volkites kind of enable the most use out of terror squads. The preferred enemy dream is too strong

[Hesh Kadesh]

One of the (oddly) most forgotten things about people theorycrafting with Volkites is that while they focus on the Deflagrate and the AP5 for either it's positives or negatives, it still has S5. That's ~17% extra chance to wound, which compounds even further thanks to Deflagrate.

 

You put on a Preferred Enemy, and an already decent gun becomes pretty incredible. 

[GreyCrow]

One of the (oddly) most forgotten things about people theorycrafting with Volkites is that while they focus on the Deflagrate and the AP5 for either it's positives or negatives, it still has S5. That's ~17% extra chance to wound, which compounds even further thanks to Deflagrate.

 

You put on a Preferred Enemy, and an already decent gun becomes pretty incredible. 

 

Indeed, the simple things are often forgotten ! S5>S4 is often overlooked due to optimistic output expectations from squads, and should be written onto service studs so it sticks.