[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[Marshal Loss]

Typing on a phone often renders grammar unintelligible, so thank you for the correction  

[Aeternus]

Deciding on what flyer to get next guys...so...advice needed. Xiphon or Lightning?

[Caillum]

What do you need: anti-air or anti-tank? Xiphon will rip through flyers with its quad lascannon and rotary missile launcher. Primaris-Lightning with Strafing Run, Tank Hunters and 4-6 Krakens will destroy any tank in a single turn (except the bigger Super-heavies). Both will do a respectable job against the other targets too.

 

They really need some reserves manipulation to help get them on the board Turn 2 though (Damocles, Proteus or Comms Relay).

[Lord Asvaldir]

I would say lightning just because it can be suited for more roles than the xiphon, with all those weapon mount options you can build your lightning to suit most rolls, xiphon on the other hand is only good against fliers and vehicles. 

[qwerty2jam]

No no no I'm not letting this thread die again, I've been reading and re-reading this for days don't you all quit on me now.

 

A few questions from a brand new Night Lord to keep it going.

 

I've heard drop pods are king but I hate the idea of trusting one of my rather strong anti-infantry units to a dice roll, and I don't see myself really going for reserve manipulation. I would say you either take all 3 squads in drops or non at all, simply as 1 terror squad dropping down is going to get ripped apart, 2 at least divides focus.

 

So what do you all think? Drop pods or infiltrate?

 

The next question is one I've seen a bunch here so I'll not ask the vague version and be more specific. Anti-tank and what to field. Now my heavy support is going to be a deredeo because they are hilariously strong IMO and they cover 2-3 bases depending on how I build it. So....given I hate tanks and most are heavies anyway, will 2-3 contemptor dreads with dccw and dual grav (like in pods) be effective anti heavy tank? This assumes I minimise the threat posed by any melta wielding vet tacs, or heavy support squads with waves of choom.

 

A quick question about the deredeo and dealing with TEQ. So while terror squads get my opponents weak with fear, they do nothing against termies. The only reason I would ever field terminators is as an anti terminator unit and it's stupid (to me personally) to take a 250+ point unit, then more points for a transport, to kill a single unit that may not even be present....so.....with the deredeo and the plasma weapon option, is that still able to perform anti air reliably enough? As it is also a great terminator remover it would be nice to dies that, rather than autocannons that become another another anti infantry once the fliers are all shot down, I would prefer to field it. Is the loss of sunder and a strength that big a deal? I feel it might be.

 

And finally, if I can't have the deredeo as my source of anti TEQ, what other options do I have?

 

I have anti infantry, anti air, anti armour (light and heavy) all covered (theoretically) but lack this final base. Will a 15 strong night raptor unit with full chainglaives do it? That would be fun.

 

Regards and sorry for the long post!

[Black_out]

All pods or none is definitely the best way in my eyes. To save points you could even make your third unit 5 men with no options to mitigate some cost for the pods.

 

I can't comment on the Deredeo questions since I neither own one nor ever faced one.

 

I also personally do NOT think a unit of 15 raptors with glaives will do the trick. Yes they'll have an overwhelming number of attacks on the charge @ S6 & rending but unless you roll a good many 6's you're still yielding armor saves.....although you'll probably be rolling a crap ton of dice so it might actually work. I'd mix in a few power axes though

 

Edit: thinking more on the uber mob with glaives vs TEQ's it might actually work lol

Edited November 24, 2015 by Black_out

[depthcharge12]

For AT...I'd honestly recommend two or three dark Fire Castellax with a praevian and tank hunters. With correct positioning, they can destroy or neuter Spartans, not to mention anything smaller than that. Their cc attacks are also useful against tanks and other big baddies. Slap a combi-Melta and artificer armor on the praevian and let them fly. Oh, did I mention it's an HQ choice too (though support officer)? That means you can take whatever you want still for your 1 heavy support choice :)

[Black_out]

I'd also like to point out that 15 man raptor unit all kitted with glaives and zero other options weighs in at 500pts.

[depthcharge12]

I'd also like to point out that 15 man raptor unit all kitted with glaives and zero other options weighs in at 500pts.

Yeah, I'd never take more than 5 chainglaives in a 15 man raptor squad...and probably less in a 10 man squad. Also, remember that you don't get an extra attack in cc when wielding a chainglaive due to two handed, so you'll be reliant on the d3 extra attacks on the charge. Night fighting really does this unit wonders.

 

You'll also need some form of large ap2 to counter TEQs since the NLs don't have a good way of dealing with them and heavy armor since you only get 1 HS slot and the Terror squads take up a large portion of points. You don't want to use Raptor squads against a TEQ Death Star, so I might recommend taking a 5 man terminator squad with a transponder, a plasma blaster, and 4 combi plas plus axes/fists to teleport in and obliterate any 2+ save out in the open. Considering it'll take you a turn or two to expose the TEQ unit, having your terminators in reserve is no biggy.

 

Xiphons are nice too since they're a FA slot, but you don't want too much stuff to rely on in reserves.

[Aeternus]

All pods or none is definitely the best way in my eyes. To save points you could even make your third unit 5 men with no options to mitigate some cost for the pods.

 

I can't comment on the Deredeo questions since I neither own one nor ever faced one.

 

I also personally do NOT think a unit of 15 raptors with glaives will do the trick. Yes they'll have an overwhelming number of attacks on the charge @ S6 & rending but unless you roll a good many 6's you're still yielding armor saves.....although you'll probably be rolling a crap ton of dice so it might actually work. I'd mix in a few power axes though

 

Edit: thinking more on the uber mob with glaives vs TEQ's it might actually work lol

 

 

To weigh in with my two skulls

 

I agree with Black_out on the pods. If you just have one, and it drops, that unit is getting targeted. Most players (I find) prioritise podded squads over infiltrating, due to the assumption they do more damage (and at closer ranges). So I would go all or none.

 

I in reality go none, due to my lack of pods. Except the occasional suicide melta vets in a pod, with Sevatar for lols and suprise Terminators.

 

 

Anti tank: You can't go wrong with grav contemptors. I favour grav rapiers for the range, but contemptors can pose threats all over the place, and are generally more survivable. But as Depth said, Darkfire Castellax can be effective.

 

Anti TEQ: I usually leave this up to my TEQs, with copious amounts of plas. I think 15 raptors with glaives (not all necessarily) is overkill against a 5 man termi unit. against a 10 man though, you're wasting your raptors. I usually fit in a plasma support squad/combi plas seeker squad (with vigilator) as my anti TEQ. Remember however, don't underestimate how much damage a 10 man unit of choom terror can do to 2+ saves.

 

Does anyone know how well Jetbikes would do?

 

Edit: Edited due to factors pointed out by Skimask and Hesh

Edited November 24, 2015 by Aeternas

[SkimaskMohawk]

Errr, I don't think rending works that way. You need to roll a 6; if your argument is the +1 to wound turns a 5 into a 6, that would mean a 6 gets bumped up to a 7.

[Hesh Kadesh]

You don't Rend on a 5 with outnumber, only on a 6 do you Rend.

[Tychii]

Standard raptor build is ona ten man unit is, 3 glaives 2 axes.

I have had success with melta bomb attack bikes with melta bombs, I just jink every turn and assault armour.

 

For terminators, you are geranlly more maneuverable so you can just avoid them. Focus on killing the transport they are in, then just run away from them the rest of the game.

jet bikes are also good for a mobile meltabomb option

[qwerty2jam]

Thanks for the suggestions all, alright I won't bring so many chainglaives in the raptor unit, thanks for that.

 

I appreciate all the advice as to terminators but again, I see them as a unit with a single person and I'm not a huge fan are there any other options? Or will I just have to suck it up? Any comments on my deredeo suggestion?

 

Again thanks for all the advice, the filthy loyalists at my club will fear me.

[Balthamal]

Personally I wouldn't run raptors at all, the only really good use I've found for them is a meat shield for Konrad. It's a big point sink that isn't guaranteed to recoup it's cost.

 

Deredeo's are hard counters to every flyer you'll face (with the autocannons) I can't speak for the plasma cannonade but given you'll be dropping AP2 blasts everywhere it might work as a counter to terminators although you'll be reducing it's effectiveness against airborne threats.

 

Terminator blobs by their nature are tough cookies to tackle head on, your best option, as mentioned above, is to shoot their ride out from under them, Cataphractii get nowhere fast so making them footslog is an ideal solution to their threat. 

 

Failing that Phospex Medusas eat infantry alive so could be a viable alternative

[helterskelter]

If you do take raptors however, and get a void harness character in there, I'd say rock a paragon praetor or chaplain, there's a real hard hitting unit on the charge. Overwatch won't be such a scary issue if you have managed to keep the void shield active, 15 raptors assuming you can get them all in is either going to be quite deadly or very deadly. I've got some to bolster my pride list, a small smattering of weapons, boss has the glaive a couple of swords and some axes. Hopefully using it in conjuction with a deep striking terminator squad. Bit of umming and ahhing currently but I think it could be a very successful unit Edited November 25, 2015 by helterskelter

[Hesh Kadesh]

Remember that Raptors hit a lot harder than what their base stat line looks like. 5 Models counts as 10. Combine with another unit, (such as a Cataphract Terminator holding force) and you're reaming them with Chainglaives or Axes with 2's to wound without the need for a 125pt Forge Lord giving them Rad Nades, and with a D3 Attacks on the charge, that's rinsing a unit. Especially when you flank them, and then use Cataphractii to shield the squad.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[qwerty2jam]

Alright, thank you very much I'm convinced, terminators shall be joining my rank, any unit with so few hard counters has to be good. Plus it will be easy to cover those gorgeous models (cataphracti) with skulls and flayed skin.

 

I'm going to have to go with the crowd here, the raptors just seem like WAY too much to pass up, plus their models are amazing.

 

A thought, is there an easy way to get a nuncio Vox into one of my terror squads? Otherwise what's the best way to get one out there? I know sevatar is an option but at 2000pts he might be a point too far

[Caillum]

Only via a Siege Breaker.

[Slips]

Only via a Siege Breaker.

Or a Forge Lord. He has to pay for his though.

[Balthamal]

Master of Signal?

[Slips]

Cognis signum but yes, its a nuncio too

[Caillum]

Derp, totally forgot about the other 2...

 

MoS could be good for the +1 BS on a Volkite charger Terror Squad, but is a Support Officer. Forge Lord with rad grenades is good for any combat unit, and has the benefit of being a Compulsory HQ. Either way, you're still stuck riding in a Drop Pod with a smaller Terror Squad, or not being able to Infiltrate.

 

Nuncio-voxes have the benefit of spotting for artillery too. I came up with a Terror Assault list with 3 Medusae that I was tempted to start buying... :)

Edited November 26, 2015 by Caillum

[qwerty2jam]

Huh, all rather tempting options, although I am leading towards the master of the signal for that orbital and +1bs, very tempting. Chuck a void harness praetor with jump pack into the raptor squad, add a few termies and call it a day!

 

Thanks all, if I have any more questions I'll be sure to bother you guys

[Vaz]

Still trying to list hammer my way out.

 

Love including 2 Quad's to threaten AV13.

 

Love including the strike fighter, with 4 krakens and a phosphex bomb cluster. I know some people go 6 kraken's but I like the variety of this build. Also droping the bomb cluster's on packs of heavy support, or terminators sounds amazing. 

 

Love the interceptor, if not dealing with a spartan this seem's like a strong choice. Lack of options makes it an over-priced marine killer once all armor is down.

 

I feel Night Raptor's at 10 model's is pretty strong. Glaive on the Huntmaster, 2 power swords, 2 power axes, rest with regular BP/CCW. Considered maybe 1 or 2 single lighting claw's. Love to hear people's thoughts.

 

Agree with many people on Terror Squad's 10x Volkite, though I have never been a big drop pod fan. Feel Rhino's + Night Fight can carry you up the field, then use the Rhino's to shot block.

 

I like the idea of bringing in Allied Mech units. 

 

My local meta has a number of spartan tanks loaded with terms (fire drakes, angron + friends, morlocks). 

 

Let's get some more debate going!

Edited November 28, 2015 by Vaz