[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[SkimaskMohawk]

Apothecarys do get it infiltrate.

 

As for Sevetar, there's been a lot of discussion about him in a TA list. In general you'd take him if you're building a list around his support rules, so you'd want:

 

-Deep Striking combi-weapon Terminators (I like plasma)

-Strong Outflanking units; Javelins and Outriders are super good for the points you pay, Terror Squads being able to Outflank as necessary helps this.

 

If you don't really make use of Master of the Atrementar and his Warlord Trait then its not really worth taking him.

 

If you do take him, a Command Squad works well, or Terminators in a Transport, or even Veterans in a Pod with combi weapons 

 

@Terminus

 

You can just use them as objective grabbers for flanks and your own backfield where infiltrate and outflank work completely fine. 15" with preferred enemy is decent enough once you're up in the midfield and stealth for a couple of turns nets you a 3+ cover save, ensuring that you survive most things. I totally agree that putting a unit or two in Pods is great to ensure Leviathans or Dreadclaws come in turn 1, I just don't think stuffing every possible terror marine into a pod is the most optimal choice, especially since with all 3 units in pods, one has to come down turn 1 anyways, which just undermines your point of "I don't want my TMs on the board turn 1 to get shot at"

 

"Thallax are T5 with 3 wounds. They aren't as threatened by phosphex"

 

You're not talking about quad launchers with phosphex rounds when you say the above are you? 12 blasts that wound on 3s and reposition 2" each blast tend to kill anything through sheer volume of wounds, not to say anything about the 12 instances of dangerous terrain it leaves behind. The only thing that doesn't die to phosphex are primarchs who lookout sir the wounds away and end up dealing with a much diminished pool. 

Edited September 2, 2016 by SkimaskMohawk

[Terminus]

Thallax have big bases and T5. They also have FNP. If you score say 12 hits on them, you'll kill one and hurt another.

 

Definitely don't stuff all three (or indeed make them big units) if you're not facilitating more pods. If you only have points for 5 pods total, take two loaded squads and a min barebone one to go after objectives. 125 points is not a terrible tax in that case. I'm saying if you gear them up, though, you need a reliable delivery method. If running 7 pods though, why not take all 3 in legion pods?

 

Although I am contemplating a list with a chainblade terror squad in a dreadclaw as one of the 3, so first turn would be leviathan, chainblade unit, and either dreadnought or command squad. It's why not being able to attach ICs sucks so much, that unit screams for a Forgelord.

 

By the way, why are chainaxes AP4 and heavy chainblades AP5?

Edited September 2, 2016 by Terminus

[Bat33.1]

Apothecarys do get it infiltrate.

 

As for Sevetar, there's been a lot of discussion about him in a TA list. In general you'd take him if you're building a list around his support rules, so you'd want:

 

-Deep Striking combi-weapon Terminators (I like plasma)

-Strong Outflanking units; Javelins and Outriders are super good for the points you pay, Terror Squads being able to Outflank as necessary helps this.

 

If you don't really make use of Master of the Atrementar and his Warlord Trait then its not really worth taking him.

 

If you do take him, a Command Squad works well, or Terminators in a Transport, or even Veterans in a Pod with combi weapons

 

So what are you taking for transport with the terminators? A Spartan or LR variant, I guess the question should be caveated with what can Atrementar take as dedicated transport? I'd like to pod a Leviathan which uses up the single HS slot. Would Severtar join them in the transport?

Edited September 2, 2016 by PJ1933

[SkimaskMohawk]

I've rarely seen 7 pod lists, even in normal 40k so I guess that's where my hesitation of putting everyone in pods comes from, since its so uncommon.

 

Thallax FNP is 6+ IIRC so still not so great; maximum hits on optimal spaced dudes still nets you 24 hits, 16 wounds and 14-13 failed FNP. 4 1/2 dudes isnt too bad.

 

And i have no idea about the chainaxes; the Eaters need their motorized crutch I guess :P

[Terminus]

Haha, crutch is exactly what it is.

 

Edit: forgot poison, or was going to say only 3 die, but you're right, I got 13 wounds from 24 hits.  That's maximum amount of hits on a unit out of cover.  Now do the same math for Terror squads (that's like 21 wounds even if you keep it down to 24 hits). Now do the same math in 4+ cover (Thallax lose 2 members, Terror squad still has 14 wounds making it through their 3+ with stealth).
 

And guess what, in that situation the Thallax also have an option to deep strike rather than deploy, shoot their guns, and then jetpack to somewhere more safe. The Terror squad is consigned to deploying and dying, or outflanking and maybe never getting to where they are going and dying.  Anyway, the point is not to compare marines to Thallax. The point is there are lots of scary guns out there that will kill you if you don't kill them first.

 

Now the 5-man squad with minimal upgrades (125 points) I can see as throwing it into Terror Assault lists that are tight on points and using them as just a scoring unit tax.

 

7 pods wouldn't be too hard.

 

HQ: Terminator Praetor + 4 Command Terminators in dreadclaw

Elite: Contemptor Cortus in pod

Troops: Machine Killer veterans in pod

Troops: Terror squad with volkite in pod

Troops: Terror squad with volkite in pod

Troops: Terror squad with volkite in pod

Heavy: Leviathan in pod

 

Should still have several hundred points left over at the 2500 level.

 

By the way, could I see some pictures of folks' Terror Marines? I assume you use the torsos, but what legs to pair them with? MkIV is too clean.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Terminus

[SkimaskMohawk]

Mk III like a true og. Only use the terror Marine heads. Check my thread cuz I'm on my phone

Edited November 22, 2016 by SkimaskMohawk

[Terminus]

Those are nice! I like how much surface area the big flat planes provide for the lightning.  If the next 30K boxed set really does have MkIII Assault marines, I'm definitely copying your ideas!

 

For the Terror marines, I am actually thinking of going the more macabre route, with a whole lot of skulls and body parts, etc.  I am thinking to use the FW torsos for the two volkite squads, and for the chainblade unit acquiring the torso/leg bits of Night Raptors from eBay. Not really sure how well that will work, and I may have to do some more searching for aftermarket Night Lord stuff.

 

I am going to use a plethora of these parts: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322128-third-party-night-lordsish-upgrades-packs-now-available/. The same guys also make bitchin' cloaks with bones and stuff on them that I am also thinking of adding to the chainblade squad. Any suggestions for other sources? I know shapeways has a guy for shoulder pads.

 

All this discussion over the last couple of days has pretty much decided it for me what my next army is going to be. I wanted something with a strong melee bend to complement my shooty Alphas, so it was between the Blood Angels, Emperor's Children and the Night Lords.  Behold its darkly glory!

 

HQ: Delegatus, Cataphractii Terminator Armor, master-crafted chainfist, combi-melta, trophies of judgement - 112

HQ: 4x Command Squad, Cataphractii Terminator Armor, 3x power fists, banner with chainfist, 4x combi-meltas, Dreadclaw - 313

HQ: Forge Lord, bike, refractor field, cyber familiar, graviton gun, rad grenades, thunder hammer, nuncio vox, trophies of judgement - 200

Elites: Apothecary with chainglaive, artificer armor, meltabombs - 70

Troops: 9x Terror Squad with chainblades, Sgt with powerfist/artificer armor, Dreadclaw - 365

Troops: 10x Terror Squad with volkite chargers, Sgt with powerfist/artificer armor, drop pod - 310

Troops: 10x Terror Squad with volkite chargers, Sgt with chainglaive/meltabombs/artificer armor, drop pod - 310

Fast Attack: 6x Outriders, plasmaguns, 2x power axes, Sgt with chainglaive/meltabombs - 380

Heavy Support: Leviathan with drill/lance/phosphex/ceramite/volkite, dreadnought pod - 440

Total 2500, 5 pods

 

I kind of went crazy with the Forge Lord's gear, but the unit should be absolutely devastating (as it should be at 580 points). They scout first turn and have 4+ cover in the open, if they can utilize the dreadnought pod that's a 2+, or they can jink for a 3+. Ideally they won't be jinking, and instead can either go after tanks, gun down marines of all varieties, or kill monstrous creatures (with rad grenades and talent for murder, they wound T7 models on 4+. Does Talent for Murder work with Hammer of Wrath? If so, those wound T4 on 2+. The nuncio vox facilitates super-precise deep strikes, and rad grenades can help out any other unit in melee as well.  The graviton gun will either be brilliant, or annoying as it scatters between me and my charge target and triggers dangerous terrain checks. Power fist would probably be better on the Sgt, but with only power armor I hesitate to send him into challenges at I1. This will require some experimentation, and if the plasma guns turn out to not be worth it, I could bring a pair of Javelins instead.

 

The Delegatus Command Squad is another new thing for me. The dreadclaws can actually function like anti-tank weapons since they always hit rear armor, so you can drop the pod to hit one vehicle, and disembark to meltagun another another, but I'm hesitant to put the Warlord out there like that to be killed and trigger morale checks. More than likely, I will deploy this unit more conservatively.  One thing for sure is he will send every single one of his "Chosen Warriors" to die in challenges before he steps up to the plate. :D

 

The rest of the list is pretty self-explanatory. I can of course also tweak things here and there, like drop the volkite nipples, graviton gun and a couple of terror marines for another apothecary.  At 3000 points, I'd drop the Delegatus and some other bits and bobs to add:

 

Kurze - 435

5th command terminator with fist/combi-melta - 42

Primus Medicae with artificer armor, refractor field, chainblade, bike or jump pack - 150-155 points

 

The Forge Lord/Outrider squad will also work really well with Drop Assault Vanguard. I'd play it with Kurze exclusively, so the bike unit and Kurze can scout to provide a nice nuncio bubble for assault marines to land, and then the bikes have 2+ cover while the assault marines have 4+.

[LtDan]

I'm going to be building my terror squads from nightlords upgrades, rampagers and reavers.

[helterskelter]

I'm going to be building my terror squads from nightlords upgrades, rampagers and reavers.

They'll look pretty brutal! Don't forget to share in the appropriate locations

[LtDan]

I will don't worry. Hope to start them soon. Just finishing up my death guard first. Got all the bits

[Terminus]

Rampagers definitely good bits fodder but not so sure about Reavers beyond the spiky backpacks. I think they are the second biggest brand whore, only Suzerain got more Legion bling.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Those are nice! I like how much surface area the big flat planes provide for the lightning.  If the next 30K boxed set really does have MkIII Assault marines, I'm definitely copying your ideas!

 

For the Terror marines, I am actually thinking of going the more macabre route, with a whole lot of skulls and body parts, etc.  I am thinking to use the FW torsos for the two volkite squads, and for the chainblade unit acquiring the torso/leg bits of Night Raptors from eBay. Not really sure how well that will work, and I may have to do some more searching for aftermarket Night Lord stuff.

 

I am going to use a plethora of these parts: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322128-third-party-night-lordsish-upgrades-packs-now-available/. The same guys also make bitchin' cloaks with bones and stuff on them that I am also thinking of adding to the chainblade squad. Any suggestions for other sources? I know shapeways has a guy for shoulder pads.

 

All this discussion over the last couple of days has pretty much decided it for me what my next army is going to be. I wanted something with a strong melee bend to complement my shooty Alphas, so it was between the Blood Angels, Emperor's Children and the Night Lords.  Behold its darkly glory!

 

HQ: Delegatus, Cataphractii Terminator Armor, master-crafted chainfist, combi-melta, trophies of judgement - 112

HQ: 4x Command Squad, Cataphractii Terminator Armor, 3x power fists, banner with chainfist, 4x combi-meltas, Dreadclaw - 313

HQ: Forge Lord, bike, refractor field, cyber familiar, graviton gun, rad grenades, thunder hammer, nuncio vox, trophies of judgement - 200

Elites: Apothecary with chainglaive, artificer armor, meltabombs - 70

Troops: 9x Terror Squad with chainblades, Sgt with powerfist/artificer armor, Dreadclaw - 365

Troops: 10x Terror Squad with volkite chargers, Sgt with powerfist/artificer armor, drop pod - 310

Troops: 10x Terror Squad with volkite chargers, Sgt with chainglaive/meltabombs/artificer armor, drop pod - 310

Fast Attack: 6x Outriders, plasmaguns, 2x power axes, Sgt with chainglaive/meltabombs - 380

Heavy Support: Leviathan with drill/lance/phosphex/ceramite/volkite, dreadnought pod - 440

Total 2500, 5 pods

 

I kind of went crazy with the Forge Lord's gear, but the unit should be absolutely devastating (as it should be at 580 points). They scout first turn and have 4+ cover in the open, if they can utilize the dreadnought pod that's a 2+, or they can jink for a 3+. Ideally they won't be jinking, and instead can either go after tanks, gun down marines of all varieties, or kill monstrous creatures (with rad grenades and talent for murder, they wound T7 models on 4+. Does Talent for Murder work with Hammer of Wrath? If so, those wound T4 on 2+. The nuncio vox facilitates super-precise deep strikes, and rad grenades can help out any other unit in melee as well.  The graviton gun will either be brilliant, or annoying as it scatters between me and my charge target and triggers dangerous terrain checks. Power fist would probably be better on the Sgt, but with only power armor I hesitate to send him into challenges at I1. This will require some experimentation, and if the plasma guns turn out to not be worth it, I could bring a pair of Javelins instead.

 

The Delegatus Command Squad is another new thing for me. The dreadclaws can actually function like anti-tank weapons since they always hit rear armor, so you can drop the pod to hit one vehicle, and disembark to meltagun another another, but I'm hesitant to put the Warlord out there like that to be killed and trigger morale checks. More than likely, I will deploy this unit more conservatively.  One thing for sure is he will send every single one of his "Chosen Warriors" to die in challenges before he steps up to the plate.

 

The rest of the list is pretty self-explanatory. I can of course also tweak things here and there, like drop the volkite nipples, graviton gun and a couple of terror marines for another apothecary.  At 3000 points, I'd drop the Delegatus and some other bits and bobs to add:

 

Kurze - 435

5th command terminator with fist/combi-melta - 42

Primus Medicae with artificer armor, refractor field, chainblade, bike or jump pack - 150-155 points

 

The Forge Lord/Outrider squad will also work really well with Drop Assault Vanguard. I'd play it with Kurze exclusively, so the bike unit and Kurze can scout to provide a nice nuncio bubble for assault marines to land, and then the bikes have 2+ cover while the assault marines have 4+.

 

 

That's a great link to the upgrade sprue. Secret weapon miniatures makes a crazy good (but expensive) body part kit 

 

http://www.thecombatcompany.com/assets/full/SWM-CB1036.jpg

 

I'm pretty sure TfM works on hammer of wrath, but it only triggers when enemy Infantry is in the combat so you can't just hunt MCs down with it.

[Bat33.1]

Not strictly tactics but does anyone know when FW will release those chainglaives they showed us some weeks ago?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Just buy anvil industries. 

[Charlo]

Not strictly tactics but does anyone know when FW will release those chainglaives they showed us some weeks ago?

 

Soon^TM

 

But yes I can HIGHLY vouch for Anvil Industry's quality.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Charlo

[lanceqi]

Soooooo brothers I'm having trouble with my terror squads.

How do you guys deploy them? To infiltrate them around the object or to give them some drop pods?

[Lord Asvaldir]

I do a mix of infiltrating and drop pods. Pods are overall a safer bet, guarantees you a turn of solid shooting before you take any casualties. Also pods let you get into perfect volkite range, as infiltrating isn't always reliable in that regard. If you're up against someone who wants to avoid your volkites, you might be looking at a turn of moving and no shooting to get in range when you infiltrate. 

 

The only drawback to pods is you can't charge for a turn, but I don't think that's much of a drawback. 

[lanceqi]

Thx Lord Asvaldir, I think I will get some pods then. Another question if you don't mind: What's Terror Squad's role on the field? I mean I know they are supposed to be the infantry killers due to their rules. But how do you use them exactly in real Heresy era games?

[Lord Asvaldir]

Well killing infantry really is their prime role, and in any game they do it quite well. Volkite guns in general are great, but then when combined with preferred enemy they really become even more nasty. Also don't underestimate a terror squad in an assault, a full squad is going to have 40 attacks on the charge. Plus once you've thinned out an enemy squad with your volkite shots, you can get our outnumber bonus to deal some real pain. 

 

In a pinch I sometime will send a terror squad after a vehicle with weak rear armor as a melta bomb sarg/krak nades can finish most rear eleven/ten armor vehicles off when combined with a round of volkite shooting, but killing infantry is where they really shine. 

[lanceqi]

Very illustrative comments. Thanks brother!

[Aeternus]

Any suggestions for the ideal 5 man terminator squad? Planning on making some cool Atramentar but also want them to be useful in game, so wondering what you would think the ideal squad would be in a typical terror assault list?

[helterskelter]

Any suggestions for the ideal 5 man terminator squad? Planning on making some cool Atramentar but also want them to be useful in game, so wondering what you would think the ideal squad would be in a typical terror assault list?

Depends how they're coming into the game, if you have them in an assault transport and you want them to squash things in combat, axes and chainglaives

 

If deepstriking I'd have all 5 with combi meltas and try and slag something before murdering what's left with a variety of toys. Take a chainfist for tin opening perhaps

[Lord Asvaldir]

Personally I prefer combi plas, since it's more useful against a variety of targets, plus can still easily hurt the side/rear armor of lower AV vehicles. That's not to say combi melta is bad, I'd just rather have double the shots then the extra strength and melta rule most of the time. 

 

For assault weapons, axes/fists/chainfists are my go to option. Often I'm throwing terminators into other +2 armor units, so I pretty much always stick with ap2 weapons. Pair of lightning claws or two might be ok in a ten man unit, but for five I'd stick to axes/fists. 

 

You could spend the pts on a land raider for a five man unit, but I really prefer grabbing a teleporter for them so you can drop them in where their combi weapons will be most useful, and save pts. 

[Terminus]

They are only BS4, so I don't like the single shot meltagun. Plasma is definitely preferable (and actually better at busting transports).

 

The above advice from helterskelter about chainglaives and axes is something I strongly disagree with. Even with talent for murder you should have fists on all of them, and I don't even think they can take chainglaives.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Terminus

[LtDan]

I'm going combi plasmas/plasma blaster with pfist/chainfists. And a few axes thrown in. Just because I think they look cool.