[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[Ceadus]

*revive*. Pffft, get all this dust out of here. To all the Night Lords players, who are hiding in the shadows :) I'm starting my new legion project with up to 1000 points (for now), Zone Mortalis Night Lords. My regular opponents are Imp Fists, Sallies and Death Guard. I have read and re-read this thread and found it very useful. But maybe there is new insight in playing NL? Can you guys help me out? As a rough core of my army, I was planning of fielding a large terror squad, a contemptor, maybe some raptors and tacticals.

Thanks a lot, I'm grateful for any advice.

[Kol Saresk]

Zone Mortalis? The Terror Squads might actually do good there considering how much firepower they can lay down and the lack of available cover. Not sure how Raptors would do though.

[Hyaenidae]

Moved to the AoD Tactica

=][=

Edited December 3, 2014 by Hyaenidae

[Scribe]

Gentlemen, I have returned, as the siren song of screaming pulled me back.

 

Or maybe it was Curze, and the large pile of Night Lords I had previously built that have been impersonating Blood Angels when they hit the table.

 

So I see large gaps in time here so lets get some discussion going!

 

I'm looking for 'total anarchy' as my theme.

 

Jumpers, Pods, Contemptors. Everything either will be fast, deep striking, in a pod, or skimming/jetbiking/flying. This will invalidate a number of my units from consideration that I own, but they are going to a good cause (my Black Legion army gets the Sicaran for example)

 

The units I plan to build around.

 

Night Haunter

Praetor

Consul Medicae? I've got a favorite kitbash with a Heavy Chainblade...

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (Pod)

Legion Destroyer w/Jump Packs

Legion Terminator w/Deep Strike or in Storm Eagle

Contemptor (Dual CC or Mortis with Kheres)

Terror Squad (as Troops)

Assault Squad

Night Raptors

Outriders, Assault Bikes, Sky Hunters

Land Speeders

Storm Eagle

Javelin

Fire Raptor

 

Narrowing it down I'm going to work on something like this.

 

Praetor - JP, Twin LC (gasp)

Contemptor-Mortis

Contemptor-Mortis

Destroyers?

 

Terror Squad, Pod

Terror Squad, Pod

Terror Squad, Pod

Assault Marines

 

Night Raptors

 

Storm Eagle/Fire Raptor

 

Not sure what that would go to points wise, but I guess it would largely depend on the most important question.

 

How are people getting the most out of their Terror Squads?

[helterskelter]

Most NL terror lists i've seen including my own are generally volkite everything to death, i chuck in meltabombs and a chain glaive for good measure. I don't use pods either due to Night fight/infiltrate so as to free up points for other gubbins. Something to back them up just in case is always good too, more guns, more shots, the more saves the enemy is forced to make the more they will fail

[Scribe]

In some mockup unit builds, thats where I was going as well, and actually in this thread I had a unit of just volkite spam.

 

10 strong, 10 Volkite, Infiltrate? I have pods so used those, but I could shift that around for sure.

[helterskelter]

Aye, thats the one, in theory only need to move 3 inches to be in range to unleash 20 shots of deflagarating lovliness, so with 3 squads working in unison 60 shots on turn 1. Suitably reinforced should last a few turns, definitely better to have 1st turn with Night Fight. Guaranteed with curze in the list too i believe. However beware of mor deythan flamerspam. Their rule making things twin linked with rending could make a mess of anything

[ThatOneMarshal]

I'm wondering I love night lords because well I'm a huge batman fan and they scream to me what would happen if you grabbed a ton of super humans with batmans fighting skills and jokers sadistic tendencies and tactics. I'm reading the trilogy that ADB has written and so far it's been awesome. I've been wanting to run them but the chaos books lack of well flavor for them has driven me off. I've been considering the heresy for awhile because I've just learned that in my gaming group theres a guy with a huge solar auxilia and mechanicum army. So I'm wondering how do night lords play in the heresy? Are they weak at all? And do they convey an army similar to the fluff at all?

[helterskelter]

If you take the ROW, you can force night fighting for up to 3 turns dice gods depending. The models are flufftacular with bits of dead stuff everywhere. Terror squads and Night Raptors are both good units, for a nudge over 1000 points you can field 4 good units (3 terror squads, 1 raptor squad). Which means you've got some nice points spare (assuming the 30k average game is 2000pts) to support these units effectively. Curze is a troop muncher, though utilised right he is a match for fellow primarchs. Sev is awesome for running the vets ROW coz termies can deep strike to him

[Mazryonh]

The Night Lords haven't been getting much love lately, but there's a couple things I'd like to know.  First, the new rules for the Praevian consul claim that if this robot controlling specialist is used in a Night Lords army, his accompanying robots "count as three models" for the purposes of the "Nostraman Blood" rule.  As far as I was told, the "Nostraman Blood" rule governs how they fall back farther than normal when failing morale checks, and doesn't count model numbers.  The "Talent for Murder" rule does, however.  Did FW make an error, or did the Nostraman Blood rule get fused with Talent for Murder sometime before the Praevian's release?

 

And how exactly does the Night Lords Rite of War deal with Fear-immune or tank-heavy forces?  In 30k, both the Salamanders and Death Guard are immune (to say nothing of 40k loyalist marine armies) to fear, and the Word Bearers are highly resistant to fear.  As for anti-tank power, the fact that when operating under their special RoW the Night Lords are very weak on Heavy Support, the main source of anti-tank power (and of course tanks are immune to fear).  How does one deal with these two problems while still using the Night Lord's exclusive RoW?

[ThatOneMarshal]

Just looking at the 1d4chan tactics the laser rapier is is in the elites and having three ordnance str 9 weapons per a squad is nice anti tank firepower. In the heavy support slot the deredo looks like good anti tank power and is smallish so you can hide him. For the praevian I think it was a typo talent for murder is still the rule for the attacks. Not much for fear in 40k. The only close combat force that actually fears fear (hehe) are the orks and chaos space marines. Other than that most forces simply don't care about it. It helps you hit easier I guess against guardsman.

 

Edit: if you aren't against allies you can take solar auxilia and mechanicum even with the row because it mentions only space marines I think. For the points they can offer some nasty anti tank. Letting you focus on infantry.

Edited February 25, 2015 by ThatOneMarshal

[Mazryonh]

Just looking at the 1d4chan tactics the laser rapier is is in the elites and having three ordnance str 9 weapons per a squad is nice anti tank firepower. In the heavy support slot the deredo looks like good anti tank power and is smallish so you can hide him. For the praevian I think it was a typo talent for murder is still the rule for the attacks. Not much for fear in 40k. The only close combat force that actually fears fear (hehe) are the orks and chaos space marines. Other than that most forces simply don't care about it. It helps you hit easier I guess against guardsman.

 

Edit: if you aren't against allies you can take solar auxilia and mechanicum even with the row because it mentions only space marines I think. For the points they can offer some nasty anti tank. Letting you focus on infantry.

 

One Heavy Support choice (unless it's a vehicle squadron) is easily focused down on.  I guess the only real alternative is to fill up your Elites with anti-armour firepower if you're using the "Terror Assault" RoW.  I guess the Night Lords RoW is one of the least versatile then.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Wait a second how about if we use the fast attack section. For the one heavy support choice get yourself a fire raptor. Then for fast attack either grab land speeders or fill the sky with lightnings with krak missles. How would that work? Also with the ROW we can give special weapons squads drop pods right? Maybe load some melta or voklite and drop it down.

 

Edit: my autocorrect sucks. Heh colitis and Karl missles.

Edited March 15, 2015 by ThatOneMarshal

[ThatOneMarshal]

So it seems that this thread is practically dead so I'd like to ask. As a new night lords player is there any tips or things I should know about our glorius legion? Does anyone get by without the terror assualt row? How does the consuls work for us? And has anyone used our relic or any of the generic relics to good effect? How would you guys go doing a night lords horde army? Also is terror assualt fun? Thanks.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Night Lords with Terror Assault, and making use of Terror Squads, Night Raptors, Destroyer Jump Packs (net +2 to wound? What is not to love?) To back up Vets, 2 Cc tacs and Dreads backed by Fire Raptor or Deredeo are pretty top tier locally.

 

They mess the meta up badly so that is focused on shoot outs that they actually are much stronger than the initial minor bonuses are amplified by weak opponent counters.

 

This in a pure 30k meta. It is that reason why they and RG/AL and SoH to some extent are king. Except NL are SoH plus.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Night Lords with Terror Assault, and making use of Terror Squads, Night Raptors, Destroyer Jump Packs (net +2 to wound? What is not to love?) To back up Vets, 2 Cc tacs and Dreads backed by Fire Raptor or Deredeo are pretty top tier locally.

 

They mess the meta up badly so that is focused on shoot outs that they actually are much stronger than the initial minor bonuses are amplified by weak opponent counters.

 

This in a pure 30k meta. It is that reason why they and RG/AL and SoH to some extent are king. Except NL are SoH plus.

 

I think I figured out what to get :). I just might have to try that list out.

 

How would you guys go about doing terror squads? Martian death rays for everyone? Drop pod or just infiltrate. Should you give the sergeant anything?

[Galron]

I drop pod my Terror squads. Dropping them gets the volkite in my opponent's face quickly. I use a Fire Raptor for my heavy support.

 

How do you guys use Sevatar? Put him with a Terror Squad? This has been my only question so far really with my force, if he drop pods in with  9 man terror squad(geared for CC) they have to wait a turn. My heavy slot is already filled by the Raptor. Whats the best way to get him in the fight?

[ThatOneMarshal]

I was originally going to say infiltrate him and a 20 man tactical squad but when I checked my book master of ambush is the old 6th edition one! That is incredibly disappointing to me especially since crysos Mortug gets the new 7th edition one! I mean I get to trade infiltrate 3 units and warlord for... Acute freaking senses. Oh well he's still a beast I might end up house ruling it with the guys at the club.

 

Another option is an aniviuls drop pod. Could be a good choice. Use it in support with your with your other terror squads dropping down. It's an assault so after you touch down just fly it forward. Since it's a flyer it's hard to shoot down. Next turn turn it into hover mode and fly that sucker towards the enemy. I hear nothing but good things about it form the chaos forum. So if the chaos can use it to good effect then ours must be 10x better.

 

So I'm making my first model order to forgeworld and to get that sweet free shipping I need one more item. I so far have: consul, 20 volklite armed terror marines, apothecary, and sevater. I was thinking to add either: catta terminators, night raptors, or get rid of apothecaries and get an contemptor or deredo. Anything else I missed? Something around 34 pounds.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Anvilus must pod in hover mode, and as a Flyer deep striking per the rules on page 81 of lacal you cannot jink on ds flyers (but land speeders can, go figure). You cannot assault on the turn you deep strike either.

 

Essentially it is a 3HP void shield rendering you immune to much incoming fire aside from a dedicated vehicle (ie deredeo). Learn to keep intervening terrain between yourself and a deredeo etc, and on interceptor vehicles with fixed weapons (ie walkers), they can only pivot to shoot in their move phase. Which keeps you kind of safe from instand destruction. If you do this, I recomment having a deredeo countering threat like meltaguns or grav legion dreads drop near as well and have that take out the deredeo. I prefer the grav dread for many reasons; a) it is cheaper mainly, b) although less damaging in shooting can kill a deredeo in very short order if it assaults, c) armoured ceramite is expensive, but still a pain for a 5-6 man derdeo assassin melta assault unit, and d) presnce of augury scanner volkites aren't going to mince your dread half as much as it does the infantry.

 

If you have a hitty character, the anvillus and kharybdis get you there second turn.

 

Problem is the units which sev can join. Infiltrate turns him unable to join terror squads, he has no jump pack so no ganking with rad nade jump pack forge lords and night raptors. That leaves him with generic legion terms (so phobos or spartan, as deep strike doesn't hit til turn 3 in an assault, meaning only a 5/72 chance of getting i7 and i5 buddies, so not reliable), destroyers (no packs, which is their strength as a force multiplier (10 fast moving bodies for 225 for net+2 to wound? Go on then), and only one power weapon = not good), or vets (furious charge and talent for murder keeps the need for jump pack help free until turn 3/4 onwards, power weapon options, scoring? What is not to love?)

 

Pick them up an anvillus, or failing that, a pod, and run them alongside destroyers or rad nade forge lord raptors to just eat face.

[ThatOneMarshal]

So I'm trying to figure out right now what to get. I'm thinking either a contemptor or deredo. Something tells me that the deredo is more effective overall but the contemptor just looks awesome. What would benefit a terror assualt list more? For the contemptor I was thinking a single kheres with power fist and grav. Or double fist. Edited April 17, 2015 by ThatOneMarshal

[Ceadus]

For my terror assault list I play:

Praetor with JP and the usual

Mortis contemptor with double las cannon

Mortis contemptor with double kheres

3 terror squads in drop pods, 2 with bolters, 1 with volkites

Night raptors

Sicaran battle tank ( I would play a fire raptor, but I don't own one)

 

I like that list. Praetor goes into the raptors and kills off what he can find. Sicaran and the contemptors are anti tank, I like that you don't have a single target, but 3 with high armour value. Makes killing tanks more reliable. And in my meta, there aren't many fliers, so anti air is also good. And the terror squads are in your face, may save the volkites for turn 2 so that you have the chance to open up transports in turn 1 and then volkite the carried troops to death in the next turn.

[Caillum]

After discussing our thoughts in another post (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307992-how-to-use-night-lords-effectively/) I figured it was best to bring the discussion into the actual Night Lords Tactica thread!

 

Deciding on Terror Assault's single Heavy Support choice is particularly hard. I agree that it will probably have to be an anti-AV14 option, but beyond that it seems to be a matter of taste:

- Heavy Support squads are something to look at. A bunch of lascannons are going to get through anything eventually, but they're squishy.

- Predator squadrons are amazing value, but I feel that they miss the mark when dealing with AV14, especially flare-shielded Spartans.

- Medusa squadrons are the kings of artillery, with S10 AP2 Ordnance Barrage Large Blast attacks decimating said Spartans, albeit at a cost. Don't bother with Basilisks or Whirlwinds for anti-tank.

- Land Raider squadrons could be a thing, but will cost a ton of points. Could carry your Terror Squads for a mech assault force though...

- bringing your own Spartan gives you 4 TL lascannons and a great assault transport! A single model, but tough as.

- the new Vindicator Destroyers are a solid option, but could be taken out easily being a single model.

- the Sicaran Venator is IMHO the absolute best anti-tank option in the LACAL, but also suffers from single model syndrome.

- Achilles-Alpha LR's, Fire Raptors, Deredeos, Whirlwind Scorpii, normal Vindicators, Deathstorm Drop Pods, Caestus rams, Kharibdys' and normal Sicarans all have good stuff going for them, but fail to deal with AV14.

 

What do people think? Rapiers and Contemptors are great anti-tank option from Elites, allowing more flexibility, but there's a reason Heavy Support has the most highly regarded choices out there!

[ThatOneMarshal]

For me personally in our single heavy support slot I believe in two things: either the fire raptor or deredo. I myself am going with the deredo. Why? Grab a contemptor Mortis then give it steroids and then you got the deredo. This thing will most likely wreck most non spartan vehicles. He's got either a missle launcher that can pin others or can give a better invulnerable save to those around him. The only thing holding him back is price but hey you only have one heavy support. He also solves our anti air problem. The fire raptor is very similar and is just a killing machine. I'm a bit skeptical about medusas. A Terror assualt list had lots of infantry that need to get close meaning it's awfully close to the pie plate of doom. Though that might be just me because I've had horrible luck with templates, my vindicator has killed more of my army than the enemies. One thing that I have been doing is looking for anti tank in other place of the list. The elites slot and fast attack provide us with some nice things. In the fast attack we have land speeders with graviton and the primaris. I would use the primaris with melta missiles. For the elite slot we have contemptors, dreads, and the rapier battery. All of those are very good but I particulary like the rapier batteries. All three options provide nice anti tank. The laser destroyer got a stealth buff and now is 48" though is one shot. The mortar with shatter shells is very nice and relies on hull point stripping. The graviton cannon might have what were looking for, it can kill a spartan pretty well though it's short range is a hindarence.

 

Out of all those the graviton cannon is king when it comes to killing Spartans, haywire doesn't care about av 14 and flare shields. The problem is getting it there. If only sevater had master of ambush so we could infiltrate them.

 

Another thing to think of is allies, we have a decent standing with the mechanicum though I have no clue what kinda anti tank they bring. Also we have access to knights.

[Caillum]

I have a hard time putting the Deredeo into my list theory, but that's only because I don't particularly like the model! Cannot knock it's ingame ability, especially as it covers anti-air too. Will definitely give it some serious consideration. And as much as I like the Fire Raptor, I'm not sure it does any more than the Storm Eagle or Primaris Lightning does, which have the bonus of being in Fast Attack.

 

I understand your fear of friendly-fire from those Medusas! I don't know why, but I imagine the crew laughing maniacally when this happens, which only makes me want to take them more! :) Big points cost, but I see huge potential for them. Some testing is required, I think.

 

3 Graviton Rapiers will set you back 225 points and they will strip close to 3 hull points a round off a big model like the Spartan. The Difficult Terrain effect is a very cool bonus. I don't think 36" range is that big a drawback - you should have a couple of rounds to take it down.

 

Mechanicum as Allies is very interesting. Krios Venators have some serious anti-tank firepower...

[Hesh Kadesh]

Medusa suck against Spartans o.O. potential to be reduced to S8 and with only 1 shot they are outclassed by near everything.

 

Have you considered Castellax with Darkfire Lances? Either with a Praevian or from a Forge Lord.

 

Graviton Rapiers are the craic, failing that Legion Dreads with dual CcW/dual Grav.

 

Deredeo is the finest AA in the game, with one usually being enough to sort out all your issues Unless facing a huge air presence.

 

As for allies? You can cheat and bring a Knight. Thermal Cannons are ace (S9 vs IH FNP is gurd) and bringing a Strength D to play, while picking up a Castigator (autohit, huge base, deflagrate #fun) on the cheap rips through this.

 

Only thing not covered is AA. So deredeo it is.