[HH1.0] Word Bearer's Tactics

[Slips]

LOL

 

But realistically speaking, Plasma Cannon + Fist. Since this PC is S8 you're IDing any multiwound T4 Models (and can possibly threaten AV14 in a pinch) as well as its funky morale role coming into play.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Combine with access to lots of Telepathy rolls, you might get Terrify, for a further -1, and a met -3 if you kill the Serge with the blast.

[captainblow]

Hey believers of the true word,

 

I'm new to the word bearers and I'm having a hard time making a list.

 

What I'd like to do is include Lorgar transfigured, zardu layak and daemon allies, which in turn means I'll have to use the dark brethren rite of war.

That means I only get one HS choice, which pretty much has to be a spartan taxi.

And I obviously have to stick the compulsory chaplain/centurion somewhere as well.

 

I'm a big fan of the gal vorbak models, which I figured could accompany zardu layak in the spartan. Sticking lorgar in there would make it way too expensive, all eggs in one basket kind of deathstar. Since he wants to get up close asap, I figured he could use a anvillus drop pod to drop in turn one. Which means theres only 8 spots left, limiting his potential retinue.

 

Even if I get him a command squad/terminator command squad/perhaps even a plasma support squad (ignore cover and preferred enemy yay), all this stuff is soo expensive, at 3k I hardly have anything that could handle super heavies etc.

 

My idea for the daemon allies was be'lakor (awesome model) and 2 units of warp charge battery pink horrors 16 each.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, but I feel like I'm overlooking something.

What would you guys do?

 

Edit: perhaps I just want too much, and it's not actually possible to fit that all in.

Edited January 23, 2016 by captainblow

[Terminus]

Yep, wanting everything and not being able to fit in it is the never-ending frustration of point-based games, especially ones with occasionally bizarre evaluations like GW/FW.  Maybe we should switch to a pointless system like AoS so we can play all our toys. :D

 

On a serious note, though, you have a number of options.  I am a big big fan of Zardu (my brain is currently on overtime trying to headcannon link him to the Alpha Legion :P), but I don't think he belongs in a combat death star. He has 3 attacks at AP4, and just artificer armour to protect him.  He does not belong on the front lines, but in the back summoning stuff.  I'm also not sure I'd bring him if Lorgar is around.

 

Otherwise, when trying to save points, remember Gal Vorbak can always just deep strike by themselves.  Also, you could combine your spartan and dreadclaw ideas, and shove a bunch of gal vorbak and Lorgar into a Kharybdis.

[Charlo]

 

Otherwise, when trying to save points, remember Gal Vorbak can always just deep strike by themselves.  Also, you could combine your spartan and dreadclaw ideas, and shove a bunch of gal vorbak and Lorgar into a Kharybdis.

 

Now that is a party!

[Goonbandito]

Remember that Lorgar, if you upgrade to be transfigured, gets to pick rather than roll his powers from Divination and Telekenisis.  Levitation is a Telekenisis power - that's an extra 12" movement in the psychic phase on top of his 6" normal movement.   You don't need a Drop Pod or transport for him  

 

Consider him picking up Precognition (re-rolls all his To Hits, To Wounds and Saving Throws), Perfect Timing (Ignores Cover) and Levitation, and sticking him in something like a Tactical Support Squad filled with Plasma Guns.  You can probably catch quite a few opponents off guard with a unit full of Ignores Cover Plasma floating 18" across the battlefield into Rapid Fire range   And with him being T6 with a re-rollable 2+/4++ save, backed up by the obligatory Apothecary he makes for a really tough tank. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Goonbandito

[Flint13]

Remember that Lorgar, if you upgrade to be transfigured, gets to pick rather than roll his powers from Divination and Telekenisis.  Levitation is a Telekenisis power - that's an extra 12" movement in the psychic phase on top of his 6" normal movement.   You don't need a Drop Pod or transport for him

 

Consider him picking up Precognition (re-rolls all his To Hits, To Wounds and Saving Throws), Perfect Timing (Ignores Cover) and Levitation, and sticking him in something like a Tactical Support Squad filled with Plasma Guns.  You can probably catch quite a few opponents off guard with a unit full of Ignores Cover Plasma floating 18" across the battlefield into Rapid Fire range   And with him being T6 with a re-rollable 2+/4++ save, backed up by the obligatory Apothecary he makes for a really tough tank. 

 

Dude, that is a magically hilarious idea. Lorgar soaring through the sky with a dozen bros in tow like a particularly pissed flock of birds is just... the best way he could be used.

 

Thank you for that.  

[Slips]

The Only problem with Lorgar Tanking would be Majority Toughness making him T4 vs Shooting in this scenario (but not for ID threshold or anything).

 

Otherwise its a solid idea.

[Goonbandito]

 

Remember that Lorgar, if you upgrade to be transfigured, gets to pick rather than roll his powers from Divination and Telekenisis.  Levitation is a Telekenisis power - that's an extra 12" movement in the psychic phase on top of his 6" normal movement.   You don't need a Drop Pod or transport for him

 

Consider him picking up Precognition (re-rolls all his To Hits, To Wounds and Saving Throws), Perfect Timing (Ignores Cover) and Levitation, and sticking him in something like a Tactical Support Squad filled with Plasma Guns.  You can probably catch quite a few opponents off guard with a unit full of Ignores Cover Plasma floating 18" across the battlefield into Rapid Fire range   And with him being T6 with a re-rollable 2+/4++ save, backed up by the obligatory Apothecary he makes for a really tough tank. 

 

Dude, that is a magically hilarious idea. Lorgar soaring through the sky with a dozen bros in tow like a particularly pissed flock of birds is just... the best way he could be used.

 

Thank you for that.  

 

 

Fly my pretties!

 

 

The Only problem with Lorgar Tanking would be Majority Toughness making him T4 vs Shooting in this scenario (but not for ID threshold or anything).

 

Otherwise its a solid idea.

 

Yeah the T6 means he's always getting the FNP from the Apothecary.  Though I guess if you had the points to burn you could put in him a unit of Legion Outriders for majority T5, and still have the Plasma guns.  Plus they would get a Scout move too - you could move Lorgar 24" on the first game turn lol.

[Flint13]

Who needs jetbikes?

 

Lorgar swooping through the sky with a bunch of motorcycles is something I need to do before I die.

[1ncarnadine]

You can fit more power weapons into an Outriders unit too, so when they swoop into cc you're good to go.

[captainblow]

First of all thanks for the replies everyone!

 

Maybe we should switch to a pointless system like AoS so we can play all our toys. :D

 

Haha, please don't give them ideas :p

 

Anyway, is the consensus still that zardu gets to pick powers rather than roll? My idea was that he'd have guaranteed cursed earth to buff a big unit of gal vorbak. And perhaps sacrifice, so he could at some point summon a grimoir herald.

 

Can you say 2++ gal vorbak?

 

However if he doesn't get to pick this might not fly.

 

Remember that Lorgar, if you upgrade to be transfigured, gets to pick rather than roll his powers from Divination and Telekenisis. Levitation is a Telekenisis power - that's an extra 12" movement in the psychic phase on top of his 6" normal movement. You don't need a Drop Pod or transport for him :)

 

Consider him picking up Precognition (re-rolls all his To Hits, To Wounds and Saving Throws), Perfect Timing (Ignores Cover) and Levitation, and sticking him in something like a Tactical Support Squad filled with Plasma Guns. You can probably catch quite a few opponents off guard with a unit full of Ignores Cover Plasma floating 18" across the battlefield into Rapid Fire range :D And with him being T6 with a re-rollable 2+/4++ save, backed up by the obligatory Apothecary he makes for a really tough tank.

 

 

Yeah I figured a plasma squad would be a lot of fun:

perhaps even a plasma support squad (ignore cover and preferred enemy yay)

 

Don't forget the dark brethren ROW gives all IC's preferred enemy, which Lorgar in turn confers to the plasmasquad. So way less melting their face off, and they'll be wounding most things on 2+ and rerolling 1's to boot.

 

However Lorgar is very expensive, and I wonder if he's best utilized this way.

 

Yeah the T6 means he's always getting the FNP from the Apothecary. Though I guess if you had the points to burn you could put in him a unit of Legion Outriders for majority T5, and still have the Plasma guns. Plus they would get a Scout move too - you could move Lorgar 24" on the first game turn lol.

Now, outriders is something I haven't thought of before, they're relentless so would even get to charge if something survived the plasma death..

 

 

Some awesome stuff already guys, still curious though: What would you add to this kind of list to deal with heavy armour?

 

Edit:

 

Who needs jetbikes?

Lorgar swooping through the sky with a bunch of motorcycles is something I need to do before I die.

Bonus points for modeling them like mini doomriders! Edited January 25, 2016 by captainblow

[Charlo]

I just have a wonderful image of Lorgar basically ghost-rider-ing around with fire bellowing from his eyes and mouth in the sky backed up with Ashen circle. Noice.

[captainblow]

Right, I'll just bump this a little.

 

What do you guys and girls think is the best solution to armour/(spartans?) for word bearers using the dark brethren.

(The only hs being a spartan)

[Flint13]

The boring, always reliable option? 

 

Graviton rapiers. They're cheap, they are super reliable and they'll strand your opponents Spartan death-taxi off in their own deployment zone.

 

Or the awesome option? 

 

Mhara Gal and/or dreadnought chainfist talon!

Edited January 29, 2016 by Flint13

[captainblow]

Lets say it's not the grav rapiers...

 

What else?

 

Edit: did not see your edit before I replied!

 

Do you think the mhara gal realy adds reliable anti armour? Personally never seen it fill that role.

 

I guess the chain/fist dual grav contemptors can mess stuff up, might be more fun than grav rapiers :)

Edited January 29, 2016 by captainblow

[1ncarnadine]

Lets say it's not the grav rapiers...

 

What else?

 

Edit: did not see your edit before I replied!

 

Do you think the mhara gal realy adds reliable anti armour? Personally never seen it fill that role.

 

I guess the chain/fist dual grav contemptors can mess stuff up, might be more fun that grav rapiers

 

It depends on whether you consider the Mhara Gal a Contemptor Dreadnought and if you allow it in a Dreadclaw. I think most will let you run it that way. It's still only S10 w/ no armourbane though.

 

A Dreadclaw loaded with the dual-grav & chainfist Contemptor is a decent option. Or you can opt for the Legion Dread w/ the same for more efficiency but, trade-off, less cool. Either way you can get even cheaper by running a Dreadnought Drop Pod but then it'll be harder to catch things with the chainfist (you're looking for the Graviton haywire hits this way).

 

You can do something similar with 5 Terminators in a Dreadclaw with maybe 2 chainfists.

[captainblow]

I love the idea of a mhara gal, but it's so expensive, and its a solution to a problem I don't think I have.

I will however try to write a list with the grav contemptors. You'll hear from me :)

[Terminus]

Mhara Gal really doesn't play well with stuff only Word Bearers usually bring in any quantity (daemonic and psychic stuff), so it's kind of an odd duck. You could always use it as a Leviathan (sorry, long-running gag). :D

 

If heavy support is taken up, and graviton rapiers are not an option, you have a few choices in fast attack.  Lighting with Kraken missiles or Landspeeder squadrons with graviton can both do work.  Chainfist/powerfist/double grav Contemptors are wondrous tank-hunters, especially now that get 5 S10 armourbane attacks on the charge. Veterans or Breachers with melta-bombs assaulting out of a dreadclaw can do it as well.

[Flint13]

^I keep forgetting that land speeders are an actual thing that  can happen in Heresy.

 

I'm consistently curious why we don't see them in more lists. They seem like they'd be pretty effective firepower that's mobile and in a force org slot that isn't typically fighting for space. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Depends what your build or intention is in regards to Daemons. It's also worth bearing in mind that Chaos Daemons are getting a buff in the upcoming (40K) Space Wolves and Daemons Campaign book (similar to the Shield of Baal style), with some suitably ridiculous changes. If there are some new rules available (new Greater Daemons etc) then we might have to take another look at it.

 

In short, from a Legion point of view, if what you want is to protect your lines, then you need to kill that Spartan turn 1. The cheapest way to "guarantee" that is to hit it with Graviton shots - and that comes from the Rapier Gun Carrier. 6 of them (with one statistically likely to fail to glance) is going to gib a Spartan if deploy properly. The best thing to do is deploy first, and give your opponent only a single channel to play his Spartan along, so it takes 6 Grav hits during the first turn, killing it dead, and leaving the unit stranded in Difficult and Dangerous Terrain - and not just one bit of Dangerous Terrain, but 6 (!) Dangerous Terrain bits that are 5" in size each forcing a test everytime you cross a template. Rather brutal. Other options for that include a Legion (or Contemptor, if you prefer) Dreadnought in a Drop Pod (because of DPA, they come in first turn guaranteed), which brings 5 Grav-plates (although 2 smaller ones to the table). 

 

It seems expensive - but it's a Spartan, carrying a likely souped up unit, and character built to chew face like a crocodile on bath salts. That needs to be stopped. Regardless of how friendly you are with your opponent, and how much of a pleasant person you are, you cannot allow 900pts of combat monsters to hit your line. And that counter is only half that - and even then it's not guaranteed. rolling Snake Eyes, no AP2 on a lucky Pen, scattering off, not being able to Sieze and going second, Salamanders running Covenant of Fire etc.

 

Edit; I take too long to post.

 

So, ignoring Grav options, of which you have various, the Rapier, various Dreadnoughts preferably Dreadnought Drop Pod mounted and Breachers - preferably scouted with a Vigilator, that means looking elsewhere.

 

I will put in a good word for Graviton Land Speeders. 65pts a pop, with a Heavy Flamer to help with horde duty and Grav to kill tanks and terrain blob they are rather good. 325pts for 5 brings the cheapest access to Grav, but watch out for Sicarans; a Sicaran gats out 7 TL shots with only 1 in 10 missing; of those, 4+'s glance, and 5's penetrate with +1 to damage because open topped and no jink, you can see 1-2 die in a single shooting phase, while the lascannons can force you to jink too or else lose another 1-2 at the expense of not shooting. They're a bit more easily countered than Rapiers, being paper armoured skimmers which a combination of Deredeo, Contemptor Mortis and Sicaran have covered, and are a bit more fun to use.

 

Melta is not an option. It's AV14, so perfect for Armoured Ceramite. It's not worth the points (400, in a Dreadclaw) having that investment cut out by a 25pt upgrade that doesn't even need modelling in a WYSIWYG environment. Lascannons, and to that extent, Laser Destroyers are a no-no. Unless you can scout them into the side arc, where their 1 in 3 chance of glancing or better is going to do some damage, and you're able to run enough to gib it in turn 1, they too are a no go. Again, the non-necessary WYSIWYG Flare Shield turns and already subpar penetration and damage chance into something that's able to literally tank every shot coming at it - effective AV15 is a tough nut to crack if you can only shoot its front armour, and its sides likely protected to prevent a flanking shot with a cover save. Even a Laser Destroyer with the Twin-link (misses 1 in 10 shots) is only going to glance against it in roughly 1 in 5 shots; so to kill it, you'll need 25 Rapiers or 30 Lascannons. Seeing as I can't see someone wanting to take 30 Lascannons at 435pts per 10 Man unit and give up all of their Heavy Support slots, that doesn't leave you much. Other Lascannons available are on vehicles or Javelins, but at 85pts for a single TL Lascannon shot, possible flank shot or not, it seems a bit on the weak side. I know others rate them however, and they're actually rather nice models.

 

There are some other slightly esoteric options, but Grav has stayed King because people continue to use Spartans. As spartans die out, Grav loses its lustre due to its ability to only strip Hull Points rather than deal other damage.

 

The only other unit which has a chance of beating the flare shield is the Medusa. It is Strength 10, AP2, Barrage (so avoids the Flare Shield by striking side armour), and is ordnance, so rolls twice and chooses the highest. While it's not AP1, it CAN destroy vehicles, and has a 25% chance of at least doing a HP of damage. Combine with a couple of other units to cause HP damage, and you can kill it, and have the added bonus of then instagibbing anything that comes out of its hold with S10 AP2 blasts.

 

Failing that, you have the Daemon list.

 

A couple call out to me in ranged format - I don't think CC works despite access to the Strength D Thirster - you're then risking the thirster taking anywhere up to 44 power fist attacks and 6 Power Axe hits from the escapeing guys next turn (World Eaters, if you're wondering) - Blue Fire is D3 Lascannons, while Warp Gaze is a S10 AP1.

 

Screamers average out at lampreys bite of 12 vs AV14, so that's a no-go. Kairos has no useful damaging spells, but has a good chance of rolling Misfortune. Apparently good things happen when you combine that with a unit of 10 Culverins firing 40 shots - mathematically, that's 26 hits, 6 Rends, and generating 6 further D3's - resulting in 4 of the necessary 2+ rolls to glance, but no chance to penetrate. It doesn't really guarantee.  As an aside to that, Beasts of Nurgle acting in support of a unit preparing to face a charge from a Spartan can prove very useful, providing a disordered charge aura, a lot of Fearless extra bodies to prevent Tartaros etc from sweeping and the ability to put on a decent amount of wounds - especially if you can get Misfortune off on a unit.

[Terminus]

^I keep forgetting that land speeders are an actual thing that  can happen in Heresy.

 

I'm consistently curious why we don't see them in more lists. They seem like they'd be pretty effective firepower that's mobile and in a force org slot that isn't typically fighting for space. 

Mainly because they need to jink to survive most power, and if they jink they can't fire the graviton.

[Flint13]

Oh that's a good point!

 

My entire view point of skimmers is from playing Dark Eldar, so I don't even think of the jink=no grav issue. 

[Terminus]

It's cool, they still have heavy bolters that can be upgraded to multi-meltas or volkite culverins, so you can still have something to snap fire. The multi-melta/graviton ones would actually make great titan hunters if they could survive to make the shot (key point, I guess you do have deep strike, but how do you deep strike a squadron safely?). Grav strips the void shields, melta finishes the job. Volkite meshes well with the AP of the graviton blast to be a nuisance to marines and a horror to lighter infantry.

[Terminus]

I'm surprised not to see any discussion in this sub-forum, considering Word Bearers probably got one of the better rites of war. Orbital assault with fewer restrictions (just all infantry have to DS), and Gal Vorbak as troops! The pinning tests probably won't be a huge deal, but 12" radius around the pod is a pretty huge area and they are bound to fail some saves. Pretty gnarly!