[HH1.0] Word Bearer's Tactics

[Marshal Loss]

Thanks guys. He's pretty set on the 'deathstar' unit so the list pretty much writes itself, although people are going to have substantial difficulties dealing with 10x Gal Vorbak, Lorgar & Layak in a Spartan at 2000 points.

 

The tournament opens up for 2000 doubles (so 4k vs 4k effectively) which should mitigate the unwieldy nature of his list if it's paired with a more balanced one. Cheers both of you :)

[Hesh Kadesh]

Watch out for the dudes who take multiple Grav. With 4K points on the board, you might be finding up to 20 Grav shots on the first turn. Even with half those shots, that unit is going down. 

 

I'm trying to work out a way of getting a Scout-Vigilator in there for Move Through Cover (there is no Psychic Power in there) who can also bring the Relic option if you need it. If your opponent can find the points, ask him to bring either Be'lakor or a  and some Horrors to help act as a Psychic Power Battery. It's a lot of points, and is basically just asking for double minimum tac squads.

 

I'd say;

 

10x Gal Vorbak, 3x Power Mauls, = 380

Layak = 175pts

Lorgar Transfigured = 450pts

Spartan, Flare Shield, Armoured Ceramite, Engines = 350pts

= 1255

 

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, Daemonic Flight, Grimoire = 240pts, 

Pink Horrors = 90pts

Pink Horrors = 90pts

 

= 1675

 

Leaves room for 2x Tactical Squads with 11 men in each and a meltabomb on one (325pts). 

 

For your list, bringing a pair of Librarians if you can will help donate some power dice to him. 

[WolfOfHorus]

Holy :cuss Kesh, what kind of meta is your area? 20 grav shots, wth?!

[Hesh Kadesh]

At 2x 2k points? 2x 2 units of 3 Grav Cannons, and a pair of Dreadnoughts with dual claws and grav guns in pods for each army is 20 haywire shots. The amount of Dificult terrain you're putting out shuts down a lot of offensive play from foot or mounted infantry.

[WolfOfHorus]

I've never seen that much Grav used.

 

I dunno, if that is almost all your army shoved into a Spartan, considering how popular Str D is and you cant handle flyersn your friend's friend better be bringing a damn good TAC list.

[Marshal Loss]

I've never seen that much Grav used.

 

I dunno, if that is almost all your army shoved into a Spartan, considering how popular Str D is and you cant handle flyersn your friend's friend better be bringing a damn good TAC list.

 

You need to keep a few things in mind here

 

1) As it's 2k+2k for the doubles part of the tourney, there will be no Str D as the maximum LoW is 500 pts per person (with the possible exception of Mechanicum Knights as a LoW but that really won't be an issue

2) Like you hinted at, it's a doubles so they can be matched up with a traitor that (hopefully) compliments them. I mean ideally (it may not work out this way) he'll effectively have a huge deathstar that would be normal in a 4k army, provided the 2k army matched with him isn't also unwieldy and is able to cover things like tanks at long range etc

 

Still I totally agree, I'm not a 1 unit army sort of person myself but he loves his toys

 

As always, really appreciate the advice Hesh. I'll throw a libby or two into my Sons of Horus if I can spare the points as I imagine he'll want at least a game paired with me. Is Be'lakor enough on his own to be worth taking, or is the grimoire prince necessary for the buff do you think? Not overly familiar with 40k Daemon rules at all, or 7th ed psychic powers if I'm honest.

 

Graviton honestly isn't super common here, people don't seem to have caught on to its effectiveness. That being said, if he comes up against a lot of graviton he's probably done for. Lorgar seems pretty nasty though and Gal Vorbak are of course superb

 

& what psychic powers, Precognition is a given and I'm pretty sure Levitation is amazing?

Edited August 17, 2015 by Marshal Loss

[WolfOfHorus]

Well, I didnt have those details.

 

Sure, that setup would delete a unit, then what? The issue with death stars is that either they get bogged down by cheap units (ie Tacticals or Levies) or they delete a couple units but never make half or so of their points back.

 

Deathstars are fun, but in my opinion not practical.

 

As for powers, Levitation is a must if footslogging.

Edited August 17, 2015 by WolfOfHorus

[Marshal Loss]

I do appreciate the advice (it's why I posted), but I did say it was 2000 doubles. Sorry, I thought it was obvious. And like I also said, I'm not a fan of the approach myself. He's the one that wants to run it, not me. :P I agree with you, deathstars aren't my thing. He's a fantasy player through and through, deathstars probably make more sense to him.

 

I'll see if I can convince him to run Be'lakor instead of Lorgar. Gal Vorbak feel powerful enough on their own with Zardu, and I just went over Be'lakor's rules...mother of god. He is legitimately ridiculous

[WolfOfHorus]

You did say 2000 doubles, but not the restrictions.

 

But is Belekor priced at 350 fair chunk of points, and he's hardly considering broken when take a look at the mess that is the Eldar Codex.

Edited August 17, 2015 by WolfOfHorus

[Marshal Loss]

You did say 2000 doubles, but not the restrictions.

 

But is Belekor priced at 350 fair chunk of points, and he's hardly considering broken when take a look at the mess that is the Eldar Codex.

 

'The tournament opens up for 2,000 doubles'. Same list, which seems very obvious to me, and I already apologised for the misconception. There you go.

 

That's true, but nobody is using the Eldar codex in 30k so the comparison isn't really apt. He certainly is a fair chunk of points, and will evaporate without invisibility on. Hmm. These daemon shenanigans are new to me. Messaged him and he'd rather Lorgar anyway.

 

It seems like I'm going to have to tailor my list to go with his if this is going to have any realistic chance of succeeding, so back to the drawing board for my list anyway. Pity I can't take Daemon allies myself with SoH. Unfortunately I don't have the models to run a WB list myself so I'll do what Hesh suggested

Edited August 18, 2015 by Marshal Loss

[WolfOfHorus]

I'm the only guy at my store that runs 30k, I suppose I should have known it was a 30k tournament, afterall this is the Age of Darkness forum. My bad.

[Marshal Loss]

It's fine dude, no worries at all. I often forget how lucky I am to have an active 30k meta :P

[depthcharge12]

Have people looked at running lightning claws on the Gal Vorbak? I feel that the rerolls to wound especially considering rending is worth considering.

[xera32]

The fist is too good to not take. With the claw the unit can't deal with AV 13 and 14 targets reliably. My last game I had a martyr single handledly (after losing his squad and having his praetor bail) kill a spartan, a sicarian venator, and a damocles rhino.

[Hesh Kadesh]

My experiences With Gal Vorbak were a single squad with a pair of Mauls and a Chaplain in a Spartan. I took Belakor for the 2+ Cover Save on Bikers Jinking, combined with TL plasmaguns and the Legion relic to cause damage to big Terminator blobs.

 

For an army based around a Gal Vorbak Uberunit (pS I forgot, I'm missing the Chaplain/Centurion/Diabolous IIRC for the Rite of War or Legion rule, I can't remember which, need to drop a horror squad for the points), a unit Daemon Prince with a Grimoire with both Layak and Lorgar-T is going to have Cursed earth, and the Grimoire gives it a 2++.

 

I find power mauls are just enough. With Lorgar in there, and enough S7 Rending Attacks (51 on the charge from a full squad, which if you drop a cursed earth and a Grimoire on the dudes, will happen, if maybe only 1 or two drop from a lucky overwatch.

 

The big problem with Large squads of 40mm bases is that you can risk Disordered Charges when an enemy clumps up behind/interlaces, or forces you into a narrow frontage; 51 attacks becoming 31 in that instance spread over 2 or 3 units.

 

If an opponent clumps up for this purpose, it is down to you to make them pay; Nuncio Voxed Scorpius/Medusa rounds, a Damocles/Master of Signal. What list are you bringing? Can you tailor your list for the occasion?

 

Unlike most other opponents, you shouldn't be that fussed about a Spartan full of firedrakes or Some Night Lord Terminators with Curze getting HnR on you. They after all only have one target of note.

 

The big threats to that unit are Typhons, amd losing the Grimoire; RG/AL Grav Spam to kill Deredeos, Vindicators or Typhons should be a priority. If the Grimoire doesn't go off for whatever reason, that unit is 50% dead, unless you tank it on Lorgar and trust to IWND to get him there (risky)

 

Another threat although less so is Dreadnoughts, particularly Contemptors, especially if you don't get the charge.

 

If your armies baseline is a Typhon, Sicaran Venator (force snapshot) and 3 Medusa, you can go between forcing the enemy into cover and then pinging them with an Ignore cover blast, while 2x3 Grav kills dangerous armour (remember, AA is priority here)

 

A fortification can help plink away damage; an Aegis/Bastion and a Quad gun manned by some RG Tactical Marines and a Chaplain with Camo Cloak can be pretty hard to shift; a 3+ Cover Save and fearless on a unit with FotL to cover the backlines.

 

Points are probably a bit light; but you could orobably affors another couple of tac squads in rhinos with nuncio voxes to help direct targets and late game objective grabs

 

YMMV with legion and available models, but that is a top of my head complementary list (as expected, a pair of armies built to work together do better than a couple of TAC lists slapped together).

[depthcharge12]

Haha that's awesome!

 

Has anyone considered running the Primus Medicae with the GalVorbak and the legion relic? It would be useful against TEQ units to strip their ++ while still retaining a FNP save of their own :)

[Marshal Loss]

Yeah I can tailor my list in advance; what I'd been playing around with taking was a Maloghurst list with Reavers in Dreadclaws, Graviton rapiers, and a Deredeo/Venator combo, so there's a reasonable amount of what you suggested already in there. I may be able to procure a Typhon for the event too. Do you think that will provide the bob clearing/box killing that we require? Table will be 8x6 I believe.

 

Keep in mind I only own 3 grav rapiers, will probably need to buy more if I'm providing the solo grav for 2v2 games. It's a Traitor v Loyalist event, and hopefully others will be prepared to tailor as well.

 

Really appreciate the help!

[Hesh Kadesh]

With a venator and 3x Grav you should be able to kill a Deredeo; 3HP and a 5++ has a decent chance of dying without the need for the Venator to hit. Tjat cam cam feel free to target the most threatening armour to the squad.

 

The doomstar squad isn't going to be in trouble until turn 2, unless you are facing Grav Spam (hence why the Vigilator is good to put in that squad, but you need extra space and infiltrate anyway, which you can't get).

 

If your opponents are properly grav spamming, then there isn't much you can do, as Dreadnoughts in pods ignore Terrain blockers, while Infiltrating/Scouting Grav Rapiers (RG/AL/Vigilators) will have LoS anyway.

 

As such, Typhons are awesome; t7 3+ save artillery is nails when in cover; a typhon just flat out nopes them, and nixes any unit you are facing.

 

And, unless your opponent takes another Legion Dread or Scouts/Infiltrates a Breacher squad with a Grav Gun near to your lines, they have 10 possible shots to take out 11 HP, and evrn if they do that, an average roll on 7-12 dice nets 1 or even 2 1's.

 

Getting first turn, and slamming down a S10 AP1 ignores cover 7" blast is going to catch one or even 2.

 

If you have a Deredeo, ensure that the guns are angled to cover the spartan so you can hit any pods coming down. There will always be blindspots, which is when you hope for the pod to maneuvre or scatter into sight.

 

If you've then got 3 medusas raining the pain in things not in cover (or you may find a damocles useful if you've got 5 or more DPA/rserve units), then you have a lot of bases covered (in blasst templates). As ever, biggest threat is combat armies, but with that much grav, and armour ignoring templates you are golden.

 

If its goodies v baddies, awesome. PE loyalists is incredible on Gal vorbak, and even with FotL marines.

 

Big army threats are RG, but Fists and Iron Hands are fairly easily nixed; mainly because don't rely on Bolters to kill their units. T5* doesn't matter when you're dropping deuce. No Warhounds makes a happy bunny. Be careful, people may still bring Destroyer Firtifications though unless St D is outright banned

[WolfOfHorus]

All of Rapier models look terrible though. Great rules though. Edited August 18, 2015 by WolfOfHorus

[Arac]

I wanna run some Cataphractii as a Command Squad and am unsure of their equip and what HQ to stick 'em to.

 

Thought about a Praetor with mastercrafted Paragon with 3-Man-Cmd-Sqd: 2 P-Axes, 1 Chainfist, 1-Combi-Plasma, 2 Combi-Bolter

 

 

Has anyone ever gotten anything out of Kor Phaeron with Cataphractii Command Squad? How about running KP as a Praetor with two lighting claws?

[Hesh Kadesh]

I can't really think of a use where a Command Squad is extremely effective. It's a big sink for a Fearless bubble (when you can get a chaplain for cheaper). As for what that unit's going to kill and for it's points cost (300ish), you'll get more out of a large squad of Gal Vorbak. There just aren't enough men, and they aren't well equipped enough for their points cost. 2+ Save is effectively paper, especially when it's got a Fearless bubble and IC's lacking Eternal Warrior in there.

[WolfOfHorus]

Kor Phaeron is not a very effective HQ choice either, his piss poor stat line prevents him from doing much, you'd be better off with Hol Beloth or Zardu.

[Arac]

Command Sqd in Cataphractii Armour is my way of getting Terminators in a List where all Elite Slots are already filled with Apos, GV and various Dreads.

[LordBlades]

Are Tainted Weapons really useful at all? Instant Death is cool, but between S:user and AP:- how much are you going to wound stuff you want to ID?

 

Also, how many points would ypu consider sinking in a Gal Vorbak squad before it becomes overkill? I'm thinking about running 10 of them (with melta bombs, 2 power mauls and a fist) and attach Lorgar, a diabolist and a centurion (terminator armor and Thunderhammer for concussing stuff) both with Burning Lore, but that's over 1000 points in a single squad.

[1ncarnadine]

Tainted weapons have only two very marginal uses:

1) They can be run with Gal Vorbak for rending ID, but honestly instead you could ]attach a forge lord with rad grenades and use power mauls for a better effect, although that is more expensive.

2) They give Hol Beloth an extra attack thanks to specialist weapon! Sweet! Now forget they exist again.

 

And yeah that's probably going overboard. If I really did want to run that deathstar, I would drop the thunderhammer centurion for a chaplain as your Charismatic Leadership tax, and maybe lose the Diabolist entirely. Diabolists aren't particularly useful unless you really want Dark Channeling and aren't playing with special characters. Consider that rad grenade forge lord instead. For less all-eggs-in-one-basket effect you could have the chaplain attached to some other assault unit in the army, as the GV + Lorgar + FL will kill... anything, really.