[HH1.0] Iron Hands Tactics

[Hesh Kadesh]

They are fantastic value. In a vehicle assault heavy list, I find that the need for their endurance is less useful however, and the additonal cost of the vehicle leads me to favour Legion Terminators. If you put a Medicae with them, then the Gorgonaters work better, but if you're going for assault, then the normal Terminaotrs provide better bang for buck (taking Plasma Blasters option makes it easier to kill the target too).

[Emperors Teeth]

You're selling the Gorgons to me somewhat... aside from the graviton gun though, how would you equip a unit? Leave them with axes or upgrade some/all to powerfists. How about the familiar on the Hammerbearer and his other options? Do you keep the unit at five or expand?

Edited February 5, 2015 by Emperors Teeth

[Raktra]

I reckon maybe two power/chain fists per three or something? Keeps the cost down somewhat. Admittedly I've always got Ferrus in my unit, so the really heavy hitting is kinda covered.

[Memento Of Prospero]

You're selling the Gorgons to me somewhat... aside from the graviton gun though, how would you equip a unit? Leave them with axes or upgrade some/all to powerfists. How about the familiar on the Hammerbearer and his other options? Do you keep the unit at five or expand?

 

That depends on what their battlefield role will be. If you want a hammer unit, I would go full squad with 2 gravs, 2 chainfists mounted in a spartan. If you want a unit to intercept enemy units who intend to lock your tactical squads in CC, go for a small 5-6 man squad.

 

I usually have 1 chainfist per 5 sometimes a 3rd at 10 for safety if you feel armour or multi-wound models are going to be a problem. Axes are great to chop down most targets and keep the unit cost to a minimum, and doesn't get affected by their I3. 

 

@ Hesh Kadesh - why would you put a Primus Medicae with Gorgons? they have FnP for free.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I'm not.

 

 

 

and the additonal cost of the vehicle leads me to favour Legion Terminators. If you put a Medicae with them, then the Gorgonaters work better.

The "them" refers to the Legion Terminators.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[Memento Of Prospero]

I fail at ENGRICH!

[Memento Of Prospero]

I am working on Medusan Immortals, and I got to say, they are a little harder to sell. As anyone had experience with them using volkites?

 

They increase their mobility and impact on a charge turn, but I've always found the cost rather prohibitive.

[Raktra]

Lack of a vexilla worries me with 'em. And I love Breachers, so I'm biased the right way for this. Gun Them Down is worthless in a ATSKNF-less world as well.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I love breachers as well. Even though they are on the expensive side, they have plenty of field utility.

 

What worries me for the immortala is that they compete for an elite slot and do not score as troops. They are also not as efficient as Gorgons for their FnP tax.

[ROBOcaster]

I have 20 Immortals but field them as breachers, they look so much better than the regular thing IMO. I just feel that their price and lack of certin wargear such as Vexilla is a no go to me. Yeah having 20 Immortals with Volk Chargers would be nice but not 500+ points of nice. I just feel like with breachers I save points and get about the same.

[SillyDreadnought]

I run 10 Immortals with Volkites and a T.Hammer, but I find them hard to fit into lists due to the reasons everyone's already said. They pretty much need a transport, with Volkites or without. Quite annoying. Might end up relegating them to purely large scale games where the points aren't so constraining.

[Emperors Teeth]

For those who don't know, the Horus Heresy Weekender event programme had rules for the event only models, who were Legion-specific characters. More importantly however, it also included two new Consul types (and a new Rite of War)! These are the 'Praevian' & 'Delegatus'. The Delegatus is a dirt cheap means of using a Rite of War without having to take a Praetor. Nice, but I don't particularly care. The Praevian however... OH. MY. GOD EMPEROR.

 

The gist:

Same price as a Forge Lord, but doesn't include Artificer armour or a Servo arm but does come with a Cortex Controller.

What makes him truly ridiculous is that he takes a unit of Vorax or Castellax and becomes part of the unit! He can't leave it though (oh noooo ). So, immediately we have a majority Toughness 7 character, but any Legion can do that.

 

It gets sillier though; Amongst other things he gives the unit of robots his LEGIONES ASTARTES rule or one of a selection of generic special rules! There are a few notes or additional rules for several Legions whose rules cause problems, but not Iron Hands. The consequences of this are monumentally insane.

 

- The -1Str shooting rules applies to the Castellax, meaning boltguns cannot hurt them.

 

Between this and the fact you can give the Consul the usual equipment you can create the following monstrosity:

 

Legion Praevian + Artificer Armour, Refractor field, Cyber-familiar (120 points)

3-5 Castellax armed to taste (270ish points)

 

Put the Praevian at the front and thats a 2+/4++ T7 model with the Iron Hands -1Str rule stomping towards the enemy line. He can even use 'Look Out Sir!' as it doesn't specify infantry doing the saving in the rule. I can't think of much that will stop that. Further, he also gives the unit Preferred Enemy (it says Favoured, but I think it's a typo) at a unit he successfully hits in the Shooting phase, apparently! Further thoughts?

 

-----

 

Sorry for the frothing. I got a little excited by the prospects of this guy, being a fan of robots .

Edited February 9, 2015 by Emperors Teeth

[Raktra]

I had the same robo-boner mate, I'm figuring out ways to bash one together!

[depthcharge12]

What are the generic special rules you can give the Castellax if you don't have legion rules yet? (I'm DA legion derp)

[Slips]

You can already upgrade them to be Fearless so stubborn is meh. If you want them to have Furious Charge, it'd have to be army wide.

[Emperors Teeth]

Furious Charge, Tank hunter or Scout. The latter clearly aimed for a Vorax Maniple. Tank Hunter has some real potential,  though.

[Raktra]

A ranged support unit with Darkfire Cannons and Tank Hunters would be incredibly fierce. Three of those plus the character would be, what, about 400pts? It'd dismantle a lot of stuff on their way in, then as soon as something pops along to try and tie them up/ stop them from shooting they're facing a fistful of bloody MCs. I'm genuinely excited, I need more Castellax now.

[BassWave]

I still don't see the point of Gorgons. They can take grav guns, big whoop. I can load up speeders with gravs and melta for cheaper, and have the mobility to go after vehicles quickly. If they had access to conversion beemers, then I'd be interested. I was pretty mad when alpha legion of all legions got conversion beamers on their terminators. Its traditionally a techmarine weapon and we're the legion of techmarines.

 

Aside from baby sitting tac squads, what can they do? I really want to like them, but FW is making it difficult.

 

I'm still pissed off at our legion specific units. They both seem useless to me, especially the breachers. And the Iron Father upgrade is overpriced in my opinion.

 

Enough ranting from me. I'm highly interested in the new consuls, especially the delegatus. Cheaper way of getting Head of the Gorgon so I can afford more vehicles is awesome. And the pravian sounds tempting too...

[Slips]

Just tempting? 

 

Castellax with Legionnes Astartes: Iron Hands isn't god-tier enough for you :p?

[Hesh Kadesh]

I still don't see the point of Gorgons. They can take grav guns, big whoop. I can load up speeders with gravs and melta for cheaper, and have the mobility to go after vehicles quickly. If they had access to conversion beemers, then I'd be interested. I was pretty mad when alpha legion of all legions got conversion beamers on their terminators. Its traditionally a techmarine weapon and we're the legion of techmarines.

 

Aside from baby sitting tac squads, what can they do? I really want to like them, but FW is making it difficult.

 

I'm still pissed off at our legion specific units. They both seem useless to me, especially the breachers. And the Iron Father upgrade is overpriced in my opinion.

 

Enough ranting from me. I'm highly interested in the new consuls, especially the delegatus. Cheaper way of getting Head of the Gorgon so I can afford more vehicles is awesome. And the pravian sounds tempting too...

As an AL player i would happily swap my WS5 Power Axe equipped Stubborn Lernaeans Conversion Beamer to Grav Guns.

[BassWave]

Just tempting?

 

Castellax with Legionnes Astartes: Iron Hands isn't god-tier enough for you :p?

Its not that. Its just hard enough trying to fit everything I like now in 2500 points without adding MOAR :p

 

And of course lerneans are ws 5... If you want grav terminators so bad, just steal them with your rite of war.

Edited February 11, 2015 by BassWave

[ROBOcaster]

Question, Can an Iron Father or I guess anyone with battlesmith repair lost wounds on a Castellax and if so anyone know where to reference it?

[Emperors Teeth]

Question, Can an Iron Father or I guess anyone with battlesmith repair lost wounds on a Castellax and if so anyone know where to reference it?

You need to find the latest versions of the 'Battlesmith' special rule One example with the wording you're after is on page 234 of Book 3: Extermination. Last line of the rule before the Cortex Controller entry.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Emperors Teeth

[ROBOcaster]

Very nice thank you.

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

Just tempting?

Castellax with Legionnes Astartes: Iron Hands isn't god-tier enough for you :p?

Its not that. Its just hard enough trying to fit everything I like now in 2500 points without adding MOAR :p

And of course lerneans are ws 5... If you want grav terminators so bad, just steal them with your rite of war.

Congratulations on completely missing the point. Unit built for upclose combat. Gets unique access to a Relentless version of a weapon designed to operate at extreme range outside of even light artillery range. They have a glorified s6 blast weapon for Xpoints - yay. Alternatively, Gorgons, a unit to replace objective holding Tac Blobs and sit away from very heavy fighting get a short ranged weapon. GF synergies!