Brofist Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I just realized that if you grab a tactical support squad, give them grav cannons, and then attatch an IC with cataphractii armor they can move and shoot... giving them a lot more flexibility and a 24" range Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4145149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I just realized that if you grab a tactical support squad, give them grav cannons, and then attatch an IC with cataphractii armor they can move and shoot... giving them a lot more flexibility and a 24" range I thought about this too but, Cataphractii's slow and purposeful is not conferred. It says so in the entry :*( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4145153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarlinger Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) I just realized that if you grab a tactical support squad, give them grav cannons, and then attatch an IC with cataphractii armor they can move and shoot... giving them a lot more flexibility and a 24" range I thought about this too but, Cataphractii's slow and purposeful is not conferred. It says so in the entry :*( Not any more mate, since the 7th ed FAQ has come out and the red books release, the part where S&P was not conferred to the squad no longer exists as was originally errattered in the Betrayal FAQ which hasn't been updated for three years now.(see Cataphractii armour in Crusade Army List). Also queried this with Forgeworld and got the following response back in April. Its also been stated by Forgeworld staff that the red books are the only books to be updated with the newer lists and that the black books wont be updated, so anything pertaining to the black book and its errata are no longer valid. 1/04/2015 Hi, Thank you for your email. According to the 40k rulebook under slow an purposeful, if one member of the unit has this special rule the who unit suffers from it. So if a Model in Cataphractii armour joins a unit, he will confer slow and purposeful on it. If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us. Regards, Forge World Compilation of Forgeworld FAQ queries from Heresy30k Edited August 13, 2015 by Skarlinger Slips 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4145186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xera32 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) You try and pull the SnP bull:cuss on someone and I don't expect you to have friends for very long. It was erratad by Fw for HH Book 1, and just like lots of things they forgot to put the errata into the red book. We all know FWs intention on this one is. Also, FW emails are not to be trusted anymore. They have been contradictory, or outright wrong many times in the past year. Edited August 13, 2015 by xera32 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4145269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) From the Betrayal FAQ V2: Page 237 – Cataphractii Pattern Terminator Armour Add the following line to the last paragraph of the Wargear’s description: “Models in a unit joined by a model in Cataphractii Terminator Armour do not have the Slow and Purposeful rule conferred on them, contrary to the usual application of the rule, but must remain in coherency with the joined character while they stay with the unit (which may limit their distance moved overall, consolidation moves, etc.)” Bold is not for emphasis, that's how it is in the FAQ. FW's email queries have gotten really awful recently. As you say, it's from an old FAQ, but it's still on the website and still applies. A damn shame they didn't properly incorporate it into the LACAL books leading to more confusion: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Downloads#horusheresy Edited August 13, 2015 by Emperors Teeth Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4145365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarlinger Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 You try and pull the SnP bull:cuss on someone and I don't expect you to have friends for very long. It was erratad by Fw for HH Book 1, and just like lots of things they forgot to put the errata into the red book. We all know FWs intention on this one is. Also, FW emails are not to be trusted anymore. They have been contradictory, or outright wrong many times in the past year. I've seen plenty of people use it in our local tournis and none of us have any problems with it, mostly though because we are all pretty fluffy players however. As soon as the 7th ed FAQ came out and the red books where released we all discarded the betrayal FAQ as it was no longer relevant because it was for an older out of date edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4145433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 A tactical squad with a S&P HQ attachment isn't very cheap. I think grav rapiers might be a better choice, overall, but its nice to have another interesting tactical support squad option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4145879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Does S&P Permit Artillery to move and Shoot? Because I'm pretty sure thats what a Rapiers Classification is regardless of Weapon Option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4145880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leoric Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) Greetings! I saw the free shipping offer on the FW site, so I thought that it would be the best time to strengthen my force by adding some stuff to it. Sadly, I haven't played a game in the last months (didn't had the chance), and there is always the problem of being lost in the massive collection of resin masterpieces Forge World has to offer, so I'm here for some suggestion and friendly advice, what to buy next. My current collection looks like this: an Iron Father, 30 Tactical Marines, 5 (and another 10 on the horizon) Breachers and a Sicaran Battle Tank. My initial plan was a massive infantry force aided by tanks. Thus far I think I managed with the core, but my army lacks the real punch. On my wishlist I have a Contemptor Dreadnought (regular, not the Mortis) and a Deredeo. Or maybe another Sicaran first, because there aren't any flyers to face - for now. Edited August 15, 2015 by Leoric Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4147452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I got a las vindi at the open day, I think the deredeo and that are a solid investment for any legio army! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4147561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxunphasedxx Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Hey guys, I have recently put in a order for 2 sicaran battle tanks and I will be placing a order for a sicaran venator soon as well. I was just wondering what you guys think of the Sicaran chassis? is it worth it to have all your heavy support filled with Sicarans? or should I be looking at other options? Here is my 1,500 list for reference. Orth Contemptor Dreadnaught w/ 2x Kheres assault cannons Tactical Squad x10 w/ Power fist, Artificer armour, 10x close combat weapons, Melta Bomb, Rhino Tactical Squad x10 w/ Power fist, Artificer armour, 10x close combat weapons, Rhino Tactical Squad x10 w/ Power fist, Artificer armour, 10x close combat weapons, Rhino Sicaran Battle Tank w/ Las cannon sponsons Sicaran Battle Tank w/ Las cannon sponsons Sicaran Venator The idea is simple, Armour Superiority, try and use my heavy firepower with lots of dakka to pop my opponents armour, then focus on everything else once his anti armour is dead. For the record I also plan to mainly see just 40k, so although I do want to eventually find a heresy meta, I am stuck killing future scum. What do you guys think? Thanks in advance. Side note: after I get my venetor, I plan on picking up a Spartan assault tank and increasing my already owned gorgon squad to 10 men and dropping orth for a squad of 3 jetbikes with melta bombs and a volkite culverin and throwing in Autek Mor and Ferrus for a total of 3,000 points. Of course it will need to be play tested but I think it could be fun until the future when I get my fire raptor but that's pretty far down the road. Edited August 17, 2015 by xxunphasedxx Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4148675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I remember reading someone's list who had a Sicaran in an escalation campaign (it may have been someone from here, even) and in small-mid points games they are amazing but the larger the game the more likely you are to wish you had more from that single Heavy Support slot. Your 1500pt list looks great, and will probably hold together up to 2k without a Lord of War, but after that I expect you'll find yourself having to look at creative ways to get more tanks in. Terminators with Spartan Dedicated Transports come to mind. I'd try and keep Orth no matter what. At a cost of 2x Terminators, it's easily done and the power enhancement he gives to any tank is phenomenal. In either Sicaran Hull he is fantastic, allowing them to generate a startling number of penetrating/glancing hits. If you add Autek Mor, consider switching one of those Tactical Squads for something a bit more punchy. Even just a Tactical Support Squad With Volkite Calivers. Mor gives up to two units Preferred Enemy (Infantry); The one he is with and any Infantry unit. Presumably he'll be with the Gorgons, so having to grant PE to just plain tacticals seems a waste. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4148737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Still procrastinating over a Ferrus delivery system! The dreadclaw seems a little too fragile. What are your thoughts on this: Land raider Phobos (armoured ceramite, extra armour) - ferrus plus x5 tactical support marines (flamers). It's a cheap supporting squad with a high damage output/cost ratio. It will help ferrus deal with hordes a little better. In my experience tough models (such as castellax) tend to hold combat for several rounds, ferrus would fulfill this role, allowing the footsloggers to catch-up! It's seems a cheaper alternative than the standard Spartan/terminator combo, both in points and financial terms. Any thoughts? Edited August 17, 2015 by Cadmus Tyro Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4149138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Up the squad and try a kharbydis? They take a fair amount of punishing and have done dakka on them, get some side/rear armour. Str 6 pinning I think Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4149159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) I've considered the Kharbydis, on paper it seems a little lacklustre to me, but I would be interested to hear people's experience with them. There are a couple of issues I see - 1) AV12 - the vehicle doesn't benefit from ferrus' IWND vehicle rule, autocannon interceptor fire will strip its hull points quickly, leaving the unit vulnerable. 2) unit size, most of my games take place in dense city fight terrain, a clever opponent could easily deny an effective deployment. 3) if I'm spending that amount on a forge world model, I'd rather leave ferrus on the shelf and buy a Fellglaive! Any thoughts on the Phobos/support squad? Edited August 17, 2015 by Cadmus Tyro Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4149218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 If your putting a Support Squad in a Phobos with Ferrus, Might as well make them Pack a Punch: Melta or Plasma in this case, imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4149242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Good point, I'd have to detach ferrus from the unit to make the charge if used plasmas, melta doesn't seem worth the points? (Due to armoured ceramite). I see the escort support squad as a 'throw away' unit, so keeping them cheap with flamers means less points wasted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4149360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Melta is still S8 Ap1 Assault 1 weapons. If anything you're IDing T4 Marines and Ignoring 2+ Armor Saves, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4149372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Forgive my ignorance guys, I've heard it mentioned by various members that Ferrus can fire the same weapon from his servo harness twice (ie x2 graviton guns) When reading the rules I interpret that he can use two weapons from the list ( ie one plasma blaster/one graviton gun). I'm hoping the former is true! Has anyone ever clarified this with forge world? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4151655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 It's two separate ones, I think some people have either misread or took it as "fire twice in the shooting phase" and it's gotten repeated somewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4151778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) It's due to bad wording. But you can fire two weapons from that list. A Graviton Gun and a Graviton Gun. If it wasn't intended, then they need to write the rules better. Edited August 20, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4151790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 That's one weapon twice though, not two. Agreed it should have "different" in there to be 100% clear, but the wording's not that bad. Emperors Teeth 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4151835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Interesting.... I can read it both ways. Shall I drop them an email? Although I suspect I can guess what their response will be (having previously asked about his battlesmith rule and servo arm, plus cyber familiars for unique characters). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4151836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 No harm in doing it. It's not majorly official as an answer, but at least you've got backing from someone if someone gets nobby with you in a game. I bloody hope it is the same-weapons-twice way, 4 plasma shots would be tiiight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4151847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Just had the generic forge world reply, essentially their "opinion" is you can only use each weapon once. The reply casually cites the BRB as justification, stating that models are only permitted to fire their weapons once. I've looked through 7th edition shooting rules and I can't seem to find anything stating this. But it is a rather obvious RAI, on which the whole if the shooting phase relies. I think I will stick with this suggested, anything else seems like I'm trying to find a loophole in the rules...... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/16/#findComment-4152507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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