[HH1.0] Iron Hands Tactics

[Rumour Control]

So, what's everyone been running recently, what's been working, what's been not so good. For the past few weeks I've been running a pride of the legion force, iron father, 2 10 man cataphractii squads and the rest I've been playing around with, last week, it was 10 man support squad with plasma guns and a 10 man heavy squad with volkite culverins. This week was 2 Spartans and a 7 man support plasma squad in a rhino. The support plasma squad is a no brainier, nobody wants it anywhere near them, the heavy squad with the culverins, not so great. Next time ill try 10 missile launchers or plasma cannons. The Spartans were good, one was destroyed by a lucky lascannon and the other was my fault, don't drive it anywhere near salamanders über hard terminators, I forget their name.

[Emperors Teeth]

Looks like you're the only one of the Xth getting games in sadly... wish I could add to your notes but it's not to be as yet.

 

I have been mulling around the merits of Castrmen Orth after being inspired by Kitwulfen's balanced 1000pt list lead by him in the army list pages. In that list, he goes in a Sicaran, which seems a logical choice in a list upgrading from Predators to real tanks ;). I've been wondering though about the Sicaran Venator. Orth gives the tank Tank Hunters. That'd be 2x 2+-to-hit shots at str 10 AP1 Ordnance re-rolling Armour Penetration rolls. Nevermind the sponsons too :S. That seems exactly the kind of overkill attitude that'll remove a threatening vehicle per turn if-you-don't-mind!

 

I think the points might be leaning towards a bit much... more than a Land Raider certainly. Is he that good in a Sicaran this isn't worth doing?

[Russ Brother 92]

Mine is partly due to lack of models and also lack of funds for more... merely 20 Cataphractii, Cata Praetor and 2 Contemptors (1 Mortis, 1 normal) but it works okay - downside is I pay vs only 40k stuff although even they worry about 20-odd Cataphractii wombling across the board :D

[Anvilarium]

Not had a chance to game with my army yet, partly because it is still under construction. I currently have the following completed models:

 

• 1 x 20-Man Breacher Squad (16 x Bolters, 4 x Graviton Guns)
• 2 x 20-Man Tactical Squads (20 x Bolters)
• 2 x 10-Man Tactical Support Squads (all armed Graviton Guns as per the Head of the Gorgon Rite of War)

These 80 models across five Troop slots will form the bulk of the infantry for my army.

 

I'm just finishing construction of the following, which will round out my small force nicely until I can add some 'beefier' units:

 

• Centurion Consul (Librarian)
• 3 x Predators (Heavy Conversion Beamer Turret, Las-Cannon Sponsons, Pintle-Mounted Heavy Bolter )
• 5 x Landspeeders (Graviton Gun & Multi-Melta)

I also have a Praetor in the works, as he is a requirement for me to be able to use the Head of the Gorgon.

[d@n]

I have never played a game of 30k. I'm getting my first tactical squad together. But it seems to me that mass talons of dread noughts and predators would work well for iron hands. Has anyone tried this?

[BassWave]

I've been running Head of the Gorgon with decent success. Being able to outflank nearly my entire army is very helpful. Here's a rough list of what I run at 2000-

 

Praetor- cataphractii, cyber familiar, chainfist

Command squad- same as above, landraider Phobos

 

2 tactical squads in rhinos

 

Sicaran

2 predator executioners

Techmarine- landraider proteus, exploratory auger web

 

Landspeeder javelin squadron with missiles

 

@urza- what do you see in graviton guns to convince you to take so many on tacticals? They are short ranged and are heavy. On fast, relentless platforms, they are a pretty good against vehicles, but tacticals are neither fast nor relentless. What are your thoughts?

[Russ Brother 92]

My armoured element (when I get around to it) will consist of 9 Contemptors (currently I have 3), 6 Spartans and perhaps 3-9 predators. It does indeed work for us (especially with the blessed autosimulacra).

[Anvilarium]

@urza- what do you see in graviton guns to convince you to take so many on tacticals? They are short ranged and are heavy. On fast, relentless platforms, they are a pretty good against vehicles, but tacticals are neither fast nor relentless. What are your thoughts?

 

@Basswave: TBH, other than rule of cool, I haven't really had any thoughts.

 

In Massacre it states that the Iron Hands were "able to widely produce and maintain large stockpiles of grav-weapons, conversion-beamer and laser-destroyer systems, and other arcane and esoteric machineries of death"

 

To me that suggests that a fluffy heresy-era Iron Hands army should be chock-full of exotic weapons not available to their 41st Millenium counterparts. To that end, I'm loading my army up with Conversion Beamer Predators, Graviton Gun wielding Tac Support Squads and plan to incorporate Terminators and Immortals all loaded out with Volkite Chargers. I'm also very tempted to make a third Tac Support Squad armed with Volkite Culverins

[Hyaenidae]

Moving this over to the HH Tactica.

 

=][=

[StruManChu]

Hi guys,

 

I'm going to be starting an X Legion army while I finish off my Imperial Fists (variety is the spice of life, don't you know), and was just wondering if I can get some feedback on this 3000 point list.

 

Ideally, for all of my Legion forces, I'm trying to make use of each Legion's particular Rite of War, so this is a Head of the Gorgon list. I'm trying to make this list as 'Shadrak Meduson'ish as possible, thus the dual Fire Raptors. I like the idea of my Iron Hands being reasonably fast moving, so I've added in some Jetbikes, but I don't want a completely mechanised force because, frankly, I don't have the cash.

 

Anyway - The List!

 

+ HQ + (365pts)

    * Legion Praetor
        Artificer Armour, Cyber-familiar, Iron Halo, Paragon Blade

    * Legion Centurion - Forge Lord
        Artificer Armour, Conversion Beamer, Cyber-familiar, Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter, Rad Grenades, Refractor Field

 

+ Troops + (775pts)

    * Legion Tactical Squad
        19x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox
        * Legion Tactical Sergeant - Artificer Armour, Power Fist
    * Legion Tactical Squad
        19x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox
        * Legion Tactical Sergeant - Artificer Armour, Lightning Claw

    * Legion Tactical Support Squad
        4 x Legion Space Marines, Volkite Calivers
        * Legion Sergeant (5pts)
            Melta Bombs (5pts)
        * Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier
            Blessed Autosimulacra, Extra Armour

+ Elites + (655pts)

    * Apothecarion Detachment
        2 x Legion Apothecary

    * Gorgon Terminator Squad
        Gorgon Hammerbearer, 4x Gorgon Terminator, Reaper Autocannon
        * Legion Spartan Assault Tank (350pts)  (HH:LACAL p58)
           Auxiliary Drive, Blessed Autosimulacra, Flare Shield, Hunter-killer Missile

+ Fast Attack + (275pts)

    * Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron
        2x Multi-Melta, 6x Space Marine Sky Hunters

+ Heavy Support + (830pts)

    * Legion Fire Raptor Gunship
        (Deep Strike, Independent Turret Fire, Strafing Run)

        Armoured Ceramite, Blessed Autosimulacra, Reaper Autocannon battery

    * Legion Fire Raptor Gunship
        (Deep Strike, Independent Turret Fire, Strafing Run)
        Armoured Ceramite, Blessed Autosimulacra, Reaper Autocannon battery

    * Legion Spartan Assault Tank
        (Assault Vehicle, Extra Armour, Machine Spirit)
        Auxiliary Drive, Blessed Autosimulacra, Flare Shield, Hunter-killer Missile

 

 + Fortification + (100pts)

    * Aegis Defence Line
        Quad Autocannon

 

I have no idea whether or not the Aegis line is a legal choice. I'm guessing probably not, but if I can have it, I will! If not, I've got 100 spare points for extra bodies in the TSS squad.

 

I'm tempted to drop the second (HS) Spartan for a Sicaran and some more Gorgons, but I'm also tempted to drop the Gorgons and have regular Cataphractii, as the Blind/Flare thing puts me off them.

 

On the topic of the Forge Lord... I really like the idea of a rule-of-cool Conversion Beamer-wielding Techmarine conversion on Jetbike, but it's very much a conversion idea rather than anything particularly tactical.

 

Any thoughts/criticisms would be very much appreciated! Thanks guys!

[Toothbrush of Terra]

In games of 2500+, one thing I've stumbled across that I think could be brutal is taking a Glaive along with the Head of the Gorgon RoW to give it outflank. This I feel is especially good for the Glaive since battle lines tend to be drawn up parallel to each player's board edge, entering via outflank gives the possibility for a really juicy shot, especially since you choose exactly where on the board edge you enter from, hence the angle of the shot.

[d@n]

Got myself 5 cataphractii terminators how should I arm them?

[Slips]

There is no "right" way to arm them, so to speak, in 30k because Storm Shields are IF and Sallies only, atm. so no TH/SS Terminators being the "be-all-end-all" for CC terminators and you're not stuck with Storm Bolters + Power Fists & AC or Heavy Flamer.

 

Think about : What is their purpose on the table?

 

•Horde Clearing? You've got Heavy Flamer Access, Lightning Claws, Volkite Chargers...

•Armor Annihilators? Chain Fists, Power Fists, etc.

•TEQ Fighters? Thunder Hammers, Power Fists, Plasma Blaster, Power Axe...

•MEQ Killers? Power Swords, Reaper Auto Cannon, Plasma Blaster, etc.

 

And unless I'm wrong, you can turn their combi-bolters into combi-weapons. So that means, Flamer, Melta, Plasma and...Grenade Launcher(?) are available.

 

Find the focus you want to give your terminators and see if you can make them gel in a list you've got brewing and presto you now have an idea on how to equip them.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Slipstreams

[BassWave]

@Slipstream- IH actually have access to a 3++ for cataphractii. Any character may take a cyber familiar which allows re rolls to characteristic tests and gives +1 to invul saves. Everyone in a command squad is a character ;)

 

I agree with your other points. Well said.

[Slips]

Wow getting a 3++ without having to sacrifice and extra attack if using dual specialist weapons? Damn thats good. Guess its balanced with forcing cataphractii so theyre stuck with slow and purposeful.

[Emperors Teeth]

@Slipstream- IH actually have access to a 3++ for cataphractii. Any character may take a cyber familiar which allows re rolls to characteristic tests and gives +1 to invul saves. Everyone in a command squad is a character

 

I agree with your other points. Well said.

 

That's not entirely correct. Models in the Command Squad have the 'Chosen Warriors' special rule, which in the most up to date rules (mini-codexes) states:

 

"A model with this special rule may issue and accept Challenges as if it had the Character type. Note that this does not allow a model with this special rule to use and other rules associated with the Character type."

 

Just the Independent Characters and Sergeants get Cyber Familiars, I'm afraid!

[Slips]

Ah well. Still, makes their Character Terminators even tougher :x

[BassWave]

Nooooo!!! They changed that from Massacre??? That's terrible! They were the only terminators that the IH had on par with other legion specific terminators. Now all we have are Gorgons, which according to massacre, they don't even get combi weapons. Please tell me that's changed at least?

[Slips]

TO THE OTHER RED BOOK HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

*will edit this post with relevant info.

 

Edit: in the red book dealing with the Legion Specific Units : (mine is black :D) 

 

Gorgons now have this as base wargear:

 

Combi-Bolter

Power Axe (non sarge)

Thunderhammer (sarge)

 

Any may change their Axe for a Pfist or LC for the price of a melta bomb (iirc), to a Chain Fist for the price of a power Weapon or both Power Axe and Combi-Weapon for Dual LC.

 

1 in 5 :

Heavy Flamer

Reaper Autocannon

Graviton Gun

 

Any may exchange Combi-Bolter for Combi-Weapon (so you can take plasma, melta, flamer or...grenade launcher???)

 

Sarge may take Grenade Harness and Cyber-Familiar both for the cost of a power weapon.

 

 

Hopefully this isn't too in depth that I infringe upon the BC rules, but here it is.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Slipstreams

[BassWave]

Hmm, I just checked Massacre recently. They have combi weapons as an option there as well. My mistake. I did remember correctly that command squad members used to be characters though. -sigh-

[Memento Of Prospero]

That is quite the crippling blow, but we endure. I've ported over my 30k army into 40k games. I have to say, Graviton guns are horrible in a game designed to have you running around grabbing objectives. But the good news is, with proper deployment and transport, they are a ridiculously effective  melee deterrent. Anyone trying to get near you will have some serious issues achieving their goals. They are also great as a anti-transport option, as they usually have to come forward.

 

It's a shame that cataphractii characters cannot grant them slow and purposeful. That was really cool, while it lasted.

[Russ Brother 92]

Ah man... There goes a small part of my monster plan - admittedly I rarely use a command squad (tend to go for 10 Man Cataphractii squads) but it was a nice boost to make our termies on par with the likes of Firedrakes and IFs.

 

As for what to kit them out with mine are as follows: (Squad 1 - Anti-Character/TDA) 10 Men, 2 Plasma Blasters, 1 CF, 2 PFs, 4 Combi-Weaps, 1 Volkite and the rest are combi-bolters/power weapons. (Squad 2 - Anti-Horde/CC) 1 LC, 2 twin LCs, 1 HF, 1 Reaper, 1 CF, 2 PFs, 1 TH, 2 Volkites, 3 Combi-Weaps and again the rest are combi-bolters/power weapons.

 

Hope that helps.

[BassWave]

Russ bro, how do the cataphractii perform? I'd imagine they are very hard to shift, especially with our tactics.

[Russ Brother 92]

Russ bro, how do the cataphractii perform? I'd imagine they are very hard to shift, especially with our tactics.

 

The -1 S to enemy shooting makes them incredibly resilient (I was facing off against a Nurgle Daemons led chaos army), admittedly the only major shooting was from a soulgrinder, unclean one and plasma level stuff but never had problems - it ended as a draw but it was on T6 and I'd lost perhaps 8-10 guys out of the two 10 man squads.

 

I admit my list is not optimised (I've always wanted to do a heavy infantry army and love IHs so linked the two - hence why my 3k list includes Ferrus and a few heavy weapons guys) but it deffo scares people seeing a 1.5k list with 21 Terminators, 2 Contemptors, 5 HS MLs and a MoS - all taking that -1S very happily indeed haha

[Memento Of Prospero]

I'll be representing the Iron Tenth in a heresy campaign, will keep you guys posted on my progression. We start at 3,500 points.