[HH1.0] Salamanders Tactics

[Hesh Kadesh]

My favourite part of Cassian Dracos' rule is the reliance on his power giving +1 to the model with higher wounds, when he has Hull Points.

 

http://49.media.tumblr.com/fc917e195370f596f5231d877c1fb133/tumblr_nx0jrmH2bs1uatuo9o1_500.gif

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I eventually plan to get Dracos. I have the Narik Model, which I added a combi-flamer and Salamander shoulder pad to, so I think running some Pwaevian Castellax would be good.

 

Any suggestions for lists for Cassian? Dreadnought heavy?

[Charlo]

Totally saw that too Hesh. Madness. Oh well, in teo years time I'm sure it'll be clarified in the new, new, NEW Legion Red Book.

 

I think Cassian works in a list that utilises his strengths, best basically super tanky and a big horde killer, so use him against things that he can kill.

 

It's easy to say use him in covenant of fire, but I think bit having him in a pod will make him nigh useless. Awakened is different though, as he can March up the field, keeping his 14 front out and buff cybernetica.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

So mayhap a list with lots of Cortex Controllers and battle-automata?

 

Perhaps the new Iron Brethren RoW, with dank automata swarming aboot? This would alleviate my desire to start a 4th HH army with Mechanicum. I should explore it :|

Edited March 15, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Charlo]

Yeah that could work, but he can only use one power a turn... So maybe don't go all out.

 

I'm personally thinking of using a previan and he'll be using Castellax that will count as some reprogrammed Tempest Gallery Kill bots.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Not go all out? The Heresy train has no breaks, brother. There will be automata.

 

Vorax could complement the slowness of the Salamanders quite nicely.  Casterrax and Vorax automata? Yiss.

[Charlo]

So I'm trying to build a Salamanders list and I just can't seem to make something really cool... I love the legion but everything I do just seems rather bland. Currently working to 2.5k but if I can't get a much better list at 3 that is what i'll use.

 

Covenant of fire seems really good but sub 3k gets quite hard to make anything really impactful as the Sallies affinity for short ranged weapons combined with no deep strike makes for a tough composition.

 

I have this as a core to start:

+++ Dracos (1422pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1422pts) ++

 

+ HQ (972pts) +

 

Cassian Dracos Reborn (295pts)

 

Legion Centurion (477pts) [Artificer Armour, Artificer Weapons, Bolter, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon, Refractor Field]

····Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple

········Castellax [2x Flamer]

········Castellax [2x Flamer]

········Castellax [2x Flamer]

····Consul [Praevian]

 

Legion Praetor (200pts) [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Dragonscale Storm Shield, Iron Halo, Mantle of the Elder Drake, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Paragon Blade]

····Master of the Legion [The Covenant of Fire]

 

+ Troops (450pts) +

 

Legion Tactical Squad (225pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]

····Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Combi-Weapon]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Artificer Weapons, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (225pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]

····Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Combi-Weapon]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Artificer Weapons, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, XVIII: Salamanders]

 

Obviously Preator needs a retinue and some kind of delivery - sadly it seems that if I run CoF I'm basically locked into a spartan and there is no reason not to take the dick kickers than are the Firedrakes. It just all feels a bit samey though...

 

Maybe I go for pride instead and turn that 450 points of Tacs into vets instead?

 

Any suggestions? Also do the melta guns on a combi melta get master crafted with CoF?

Edited March 16, 2016 by Charlo

[God-Potato of Mankind]

So I'm trying to build a Salamanders list and I just can't seem to make something really cool... I love the legion but everything I do just seems rather bland. Currently working to 2.5k but if I can't get a much better list at 3 that is what i'll use.

 

Covenant of fire seems really good but sub 3k gets quite hard to make anything really impactful as the Sallies affinity for short ranged weapons combined with no deep strike makes for a tough composition.

 

I have this as a core to start:

+++ Dracos (1422pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1422pts) ++

 

+ HQ (972pts) +

 

Cassian Dracos Reborn (295pts)

 

Legion Centurion (477pts) [Artificer Armour, Artificer Weapons, Bolter, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon, Refractor Field]

····Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple

········Castellax [2x Flamer]

········Castellax [2x Flamer]

········Castellax [2x Flamer]

····Consul [Praevian]

 

Legion Praetor (200pts) [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Dragonscale Storm Shield, Iron Halo, Mantle of the Elder Drake, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Paragon Blade]

····Master of the Legion [The Covenant of Fire]

 

+ Troops (450pts) +

 

Legion Tactical Squad (225pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]

····Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Combi-Weapon]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Artificer Weapons, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (225pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]

····Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Combi-Weapon]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Artificer Weapons, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, XVIII: Salamanders]

 

Obviously Preator needs a retinue and some kind of delivery - sadly it seems that if I run CoF I'm basically locked into a spartan and there is no reason not to take the dick kickers than are the Firedrakes. It just all feels a bit samey though...

 

Maybe I go for pride instead and turn that 450 points of Tacs into vets instead?

 

Any suggestions? Also do the melta guns on a combi melta get master crafted with CoF?

 

Maybe run 2 Castellax?

 

You hit my main issue with the Salamanders, it's pretty much Firedrakes or bust. The melta rule, IIRC, specifies inferno pistols, melta and multi-meltas. So ... I guess not? Veterans could work with melta guns and melta bombs. Good av there.

 

I was dreaming of list building and thought how a squadron of Vindicators and a Typhon could be pretty sweet with CoF - it's just a damn shame they can't take pintle multi-meltas, though HFs could be cool.

 

Allied detachment of Auxilia for some Dracosians to make an army composed entirely of demolisher cannons. Yeaaaah?

[Caillum]

I think combi-meltas get the bonus, but only when firing the meltagun component. Combi-weapons state that the secondary weapons fire at the same time as the other weapons they're based off, and the secondary component is called a meltagun, so it should be fine.

 

I think Pride of the Legion works well for Salamanders. 1 unit of Firedrakes with Vulkan or a Praetor, and a unit or 2 of Sniper Veterans with heavy flamers. Transports are a must too.

 

An alternative idea is to take 2 minimum units of Vets (with no upgrades) and put them into Achilles or Achilles-Alphas. Firedrakes can belt around in a Spartan and beat face, while the gunboats move to an objective and hold it with their ferromantic invulnerability. Could be interesting...

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I think combi-meltas get the bonus, but only when firing the meltagun component. Combi-weapons state that the secondary weapons fire at the same time as the other weapons they're based off, and the secondary component is called a meltagun, so it should be fine.

 

I think Pride of the Legion works well for Salamanders. 1 unit of Firedrakes with Vulkan or a Praetor, and a unit or 2 of Sniper Veterans with heavy flamers. Transports are a must too.

 

An alternative idea is to take 2 minimum units of Vets (with no upgrades) and put them into Achilles or Achilles-Alphas. Firedrakes can belt around in a Spartan and beat face, while the gunboats move to an objective and hold it with their ferromantic invulnerability. Could be interesting...

 

Why Veteran, when you can take Pyros? If you're gonna objective camp you want reslience and their flame projectors will outshine stock Veterans. Unless you meant Vets minimum in squad size?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Pyro's are terrible objective campers. No range threat, no Invulnerable Save...

[Charlo]

 

I think combi-meltas get the bonus, but only when firing the meltagun component. Combi-weapons state that the secondary weapons fire at the same time as the other weapons they're based off, and the secondary component is called a meltagun, so it should be fine.

I think Pride of the Legion works well for Salamanders. 1 unit of Firedrakes with Vulkan or a Praetor, and a unit or 2 of Sniper Veterans with heavy flamers. Transports are a must too.

An alternative idea is to take 2 minimum units of Vets (with no upgrades) and put them into Achilles or Achilles-Alphas. Firedrakes can belt around in a Spartan and beat face, while the gunboats move to an objective and hold it with their ferromantic invulnerability. Could be interesting...

 

Aye that list idea has been thrown around a lot here. It's cool but I'm just not sure how cool. Then again tank heavy seems to be the way to go in the Heresy... But that is expensive on the Wallet aha

 

 

 

 

=SNIP=

 

 

Why Veteran, when you can take Pyros? If you're gonna objective camp you want reslience and their flame projectors will outshine stock Veterans. Unless you meant Vets minimum in squad size?

 

 

Pyros are very expensive and also short ranged - obviously when mounted up this is mitigated, plus they get some nice saves against most things that melt their armour... Do you think 9 and an Apoth in a Rhino would work well if running CoF in my list?

 

Pyro's are terrible objective campers. No range threat, no Invulnerable Save...

 

 

They do against plasma/ Melta/ Flame/ Volkite - which eliminates a lot of their threats. And most of those allow a FNP save too.

 

Do you think a Previan with bots and Dracos is worth the 6-700 points? I think it makes a sweet mass of regenerating wounds and hull points that will ruin anyones day... But it's a tad slow.... I mainly like it because it's quite unique and fluffy (once again, Tempest Gallery Killbots)

Edited March 16, 2016 by Charlo

[God-Potato of Mankind]

They're supported by Achilles-Alphas, which can touch things at range. If the enemy is gonna hide back at range, I just keep them in the Achilles and place it in cover. They will need to engage the Pyros to clear them from the objective at close range then.

Seems like they'd do ok. I should be able to play test it soon, will report back.

I made a nope cannon list. Another variation swaps out Terminators for Veletarii and Dracosians for a total of 5 demolisher cannons.

++ Salamander Siege Cadre (2996pts) +++

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++

+ HQ +

Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Refractor Field]
Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [Enhanced Targeting Array]
Castellax [Multi-melta]
Castellax [Multi-melta]
Consul [Praevian]

Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Artificer Weapons, Cortex Controller, Cyber-familiar, 3x Power fist, Rad Grenades, Refractor Field, 3x Servo-automata, Thunder Hammer]
Consul [Forge Lord]

+ Troops +

Legion Tactical Squad [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]
Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour]

Legion Tactical Squad [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]
Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon]

+ Elites +

Firedrake Terminator Squad [8x Dragonscale Storm Shield, 9x Firedrakes, Heavy Flamer, 9x Thunder Hammer]
Firedrake Master [Artificer Weapons, Dragonscale Storm Shield, Master-crafted Thunder Hammer]
Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield]

+ Heavy Support +

Legion Fire Raptor Gunship [Armoured Ceramite, Reaper Autocannon battery]

Legion Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron
Legion Vindicator Tank [Armoured Ceramite]
Legion Vindicator Tank [Armoured Ceramite]
Legion Vindicator Tank [Armoured Ceramite]

+ Legion +

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, XVIII: Salamanders]

+ Lord of War +

War Machine Detachment
Legion Typhon Heavy Siege Tank [Armoured Ceramite]

Edited March 16, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[caladancid]

I really like that list, seems absolutely brutal. The fire raptor is a nice touch. I want to commit to getting one eventually but I hear they are truly awful to assemble.

 

I did start to think about what you said re: Salamanders armies, and you are right. I just grab Firedrakes, Vulkan, and go haha. Probably could use more imagination in list making, but that combo is so good.

[Caustic63]

The Salamanders are a fairly straight forward legion on paper and they mimic their 40K counterparts. Firedrakes are basically better (but more expensive) Hammernators, while Pyroclasts are exotic Tactical Support Squads. Having Eternal Warrior Praetors and cheap Mastercrafting is no small bonus either, but looking at the legion tactics and Covenant of Fire restrictions its clear the 30K Salamanders are denied a lot of the mobility needed for their upgraded weapons to be most effective.

 

The Awakening of Fire RoW seems pretty light in terms of benefits, though having the game last a turn longer by default favours slower armies so it can work when the limitations of Covenant of Fire become too much. I'd be strongly tempted to run a CoF list centred around Fast Attack as opposed to Heavy Support, filling my FA with Attack Bikes running Heavy Flamers and Multimeltas since nothing is quite as useful as mobile Melta.

[ElectricPaladin]

The Salamanders are a fairly straight forward legion on paper and they mimic their 40K counterparts. Firedrakes are basically better (but more expensive) Hammernators, while Pyroclasts are exotic Tactical Support Squads. Having Eternal Warrior Praetors and cheap Mastercrafting is no small bonus either, but looking at the legion tactics and Covenant of Fire restrictions its clear the 30K Salamanders are denied a lot of the mobility needed for their upgraded weapons to be most effective.

 

The Awakening of Fire RoW seems pretty light in terms of benefits, though having the game last a turn longer by default favours slower armies so it can work when the limitations of Covenant of Fire become too much. I'd be strongly tempted to run a CoF list centred around Fast Attack as opposed to Heavy Support, filling my FA with Attack Bikes running Heavy Flamers and Multimeltas since nothing is quite as useful as mobile Melta.

 

This is why I increasingly want to run my Salamanders using the Armored Spearhead and Orbital Assault Rites of War rather than either of our proprietary Rites. I might still use them once in a while for fun (I mean, what else is the game about...?), but I've completely forgotten my original idea that I was going to "only" or even "mostly" run Covenant of Fire.

[Charlo]

Orbital assault is a great one for sallies - you just load up on Pyros in Dreadclaws as well as special squads in pods too.

 

Problem is then you lose your master crafting... And then you get close and vulnerable to your opponents assaults. It's all very ifs and buts, but worth considering.

 

Plus Pyros in claws are expensive. But I guess mini non-bulky terminators with flamers and melta-guns aught to be....

[God-Potato of Mankind]

And melta bombs. Sure they're unwieldy but that's a load of armourbane S9 (or are they S8?) AP1 attacks will get through due to their 2+/5+ invuln to plasma (which is what people will shoot at 2+ saves) and I'd want an apoc so FNP too.

 

It's such a shame I want to reserve dreadclaws for my World Eaters. Drop melta assaults sound so cool :(

[Charlo]

The Awakening Fire.

 

Now it's a cool rite of war but I'm really just annoyed at how arguably the coolest aspect of it is hardly usable. I'm of course talking about Fury of the Salamander.

 

The AoD chart has 3HQ slots. You need to take a master of the legion, so a Delegatus, Heraldor or Preator. The rite also requires a Chaplain. Finally, this leaves one slot for a Librarian. Not a lot to work with?

 

Now, if you could take Xiaphas and he was a Master of the Legion (or unlocked the rite as his rules) or even counted as a chaplain for fluff purposes that would be cool but no. Same goes for Nomus.

 

Just feels like you're hardly going to get a cast of the spell off all game for some pretty big limitations.

[Slips]

Doesnt Nomus have Master of the Legion and is a Chaplain so essentially would fulfil the requirements of MOTL and a Chappy being present much in the same way that Erebus counts as a DIabolist and Chaplain for their own shenanigans.

 

Clarification from FW for this might help buuuuuuuuuuuuuttttttt.....

 

If Nomus did the above it would certainly help since it'd free up an HQ slot.

[Charlo]

Yeah my thinking exactly. But seeing as with WB it's clarified it makes me assume no :(

[Slips]

The Erebus thing was actually clarified in an FAQ and subsequently in Book 5(iirc) so this could be another case of that honestly.

[Caillum]

I've been thinking the exact same thing about Nomus. Makes complete sense to me that he fulfils the Chaplain role (as does Xiaphas).

 

However, I think that taking Awakening Fire just for "Fury of the Salamander" is a bad idea. You would have to take 2 ML2 Librarians just to get the power off reliably (and even then, only once per turn). Honestly, it's better off not wasting time on.

 

The other benefits are nifty though. Fear army-wide is pretty decent in an ATSKNF-less environment. And the final turn shenanigans will help out from time-to-time.

 

As for the negatives... restricting the unit types is no big deal, but the lack of Vulkan, Allies and Fortifications makes it considerably less versatile. The benefits only work on a Primary Detachment too, so you gain nothing running it as an Allied Detachment.

 

If you aren't running a Rite of War, don't want Vulkan, Allies or Forts, and plan to use Nomus Rhy'tan, then it's worth using. Otherwise, it might be better running no Rite at all.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Well Fear is good for stabbing things as far as I can tell, which apart from Firedrakes, is meh for Salamanders as they suck at melee.

[ElectricPaladin]

Honestly, I'm not going to use Awakening Fire in any game I really want to win. It's a fun RoW if you want to play some post-Istvaan Salamanders who are going nuts, but it's not really any good, and it's not even all that fluffy for anyone other than the crew of the Ebon Drake. It's an easy enough RoW to realize, and it's advantages are entertaining enough, that I might use it in a fun pickup game once in a while, but in a narrative campaign environment (the closest to "competitive" I'm likely to get), where I want to get a win for my side? Nope.