LongGone Posted December 31, 2013 Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 Haha, damn *opens mouth, inserts foot* Good sir, submit that IT to the Tabula! Hmmmmmm...what to do now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3557614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefect Apollyon Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Update the rest of it? :p The name is not an issue, and can be changed later if it becomes one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3557632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Make the warband your chapter's nemesis. It is even canonical for two groups of marines on both sides of the long war to share a name: Knights of Blood and Knights of Blood Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3557634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefect Apollyon Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 The Malakim? Hebrew for Angel? I still think the Nephilim are fine, but their are an almost infinite number of names for angels and the differing ranks if you disagree. I will say "Nephilim" suits a Chaos Space Marine war band more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3557638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted December 31, 2013 Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 Prefect: I got huge chunks of multiple sections done last night. The entire IA will be updated soon. I'm off the next three days (Thank you Uncle Sam!), and it'll all be posted in that time. Quixus: I like where you're head's at. You hear that Nephilim? The Nephilim are coming after the Nephilim! :D EDIT: Yeah, I'm not that worried about the name, I just like how the multiple interpretations seemed to fit. EDIT#2: I actually grimdarked some Hebrew words for the homeworld's native tounge. Malakim would definitely work, but I was planning on Malachi being the chaplain to overcome the rage. Hmmmmm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3557639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefect Apollyon Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 In the fluff, only the Chief Librarian of the Blood Angels in 10,000 years has fallen to and then overcome the Rage. To say one of your Chaplains have done it too would start sounding a little Mary Sue. I won't say don't do it, just be very careful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3557699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 *shrug* I'll read this later tonight then. I was on last night and was like, wait... golly gee? I'll read this and see if there is any useful advice I can give beyond, "No, I'm Spartagus!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3557855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted December 31, 2013 Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 Updated several sections, and those that aren't updated have been annotated. Let me know what you think. In the fluff, only the Chief Librarian of the Blood Angels in 10,000 years has fallen to and then overcome the Rage. To say one of your Chaplains have done it too would start sounding a little Mary Sue. I won't say don't do it, just be very careful. Yeah, I had asked for thoughts about that earlier in the thread and got mixed responses. In the end, having their head chaplain recover from it isn't a sticking point. It was done more to give the chapter a hero to focus on, an example to lead them out of the darkness. It can easily be edited out. To that end, ignore the reference to a 'handful' coming back from the abyss. If I do decide to go through with it, the chaplain will be the only one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3557939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I guess I've read the updated version. The critiques and advise already offered is amazing. Especially from NightrawenII. With angelic themed armies, my biggest problem I've faced and I'm sure other authors have as well, is trying to maintain the spirit of the theme, such as my theme of fallen angels with my version of the Nephilm, whilst maintaining a grimdark flavor that is appropriate to the setting. I would suggest picking one names angel from biblical or apocrypha as a chapter master and leave the rest of the angel names out of your IA. Too much and it feels gimmicky. The rest of your names for your veterans who were originally from whatever gene lab on whatever planet would have completely different names from the people of Dominion. Dialect, nameology, even deviations in Imperial doctrine. I definitely suggest some side bar, three paragraph short little blubs about characters or significant moments within your Chapter's history. It will provide more depth and give your IA a more complete feel. I do like Seraph over Archangel for the chapter master title. As as previously mentioned by another, I still don't get enough of the angel theme I think you're wanting to convey. As to your Nephilim coming after my Nephilim, I'm not open to a coauthored venture at the moment, but I'm no opposed to it later. I do think you'd need a name change though. Reading a battle between two Nephilim armies would be monotenous to say the least. The original name for my Nephilim was the Angels of Desolation, which was already taken in another IA article, which of course prompted a complete reboot for my idea. Can you imagine the confusion in a battle report? I'm still taking a lot of notes from the Heresy novels and working on my own rewrite at the moment. Between personal life and 60 hour work weeks right now, I don't have a lot of time, unfortunately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3558091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Yeah, the reboot will have only the chapter name being angelic. Like you and others had pointed out, I realized I had gotten to the pojnt where it was gimmicky... and didn't really serve a purpose. I had basically gotten wrapped around what I wanted to put on the table top: white angels with wings err'where! I think the organization and homeworld are the two big sections left over from the original 'The Host' IA. Once I rewrite those, I'm hoping everyone will see the theme is no longer "Angelic Angels for Angels' sake hitting you with their Angel hammer" and is more just fallen, slightly barbaric, angels. I was just being funny when I used the word Nephilim three times in a sentence to say my Nephilim were coming after your Nephilim, Nephilim. ;) I'm on my cell, so I can't see your location, but unless you fancy a trip to the Land of the Rising Sun, our angelic batrep of awesomeness will have to wait. LG EDIT: I do kinda want to have different honorific titles, without the gimmicks though. Things like Seer and Watcher are removed enough from 'angels' to work. Although Seraph...oooo shiny... damn it, no!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3559214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Updated the Homeworld and Recruitment sections. All that is left is the Geneseed and Organization. I'm still not sure exactly what I want to do for the organization. I'm not sure if I want to make them codex compliant or not. I can't really provide an explanation for any divergence, I just want them to be different from the Blood Angels and their other successors (Note: I'm not going for angel this and angel that). For the geneseed, I'm tossing around the idea of having it cause a reaction that turns their skin an ashen gray. Is that too much of a special snowflake? Let me know what you think! LG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3559450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Being a heretic, I really don't get the big deal about codex blah blah blah blah blah. I'm probably going to gloss over that section when it's done to be honest. Homeworld: I like it. Personally, I love death worlds. I love the idea of fighting a primitive fight for your life in the midst of all these grimdark tech that's either just out of reach or too arcane to understand. Recruitment: What I took away from it? Conan the barbarian meets dark elves from Morrowind. I like it, ashlander. Geneseed: Are you set on these guys being whimsy Blood Angels? I mean is it the codex you're wanting to use or do you just really like Sanguinis? I know it's taboo to talk about, but I think a Black Founding with maybe some Horus geneseed experiment would be great for this. Just my personal 13th Founding nerd-on opinion there. And your first quote from the Archangel... I like it. I really do. You guys are totally begging to fall further from grace. And that, is my expert heretical opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3559510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm glad you like what you're seeing Nephilim! The Blood Angel geneseed is used to introduce the flaw of Black Rage/Red Thirst. The nobility and grace of the Blood Angels gave me a high platform to take a giant fall from. I'm also using their codex on the table top, but that's in the realm of the real world and doesn't necessarily impact the 40k universe. I guess I could do something similar with mutated geneseed, but that kind of mutation would take further explaining, and could run the risk of special snowflakeness if I don't do it right. Although if I did use a mutation, you're definitely right about the 13th Founding being the vehicle to do it with. Hmmmmm *scribbles down notes for future use* You guys are totally begging to fall further from grace. And that, is my expert heretical opinion. You never know, In the grim darkness of the far future they just may... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3559566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefect Apollyon Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 If they were going to use Traitor Gene-Seed, it would be the Cursed Founding. EDIT: Good. Nothing stands out as being snowflake/mary sue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3559618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 If they were going to use Traitor Gene-Seed, it would be the Cursed Founding. EDIT: Good. Nothing stands out as being snowflake/mary sue. Cursed Founding. That was what I was looking for. I didn't think the 13th was right. It's hard to cross reference everything on an iPhone. As to standing out like a "snowflake/Mary Sue," I don't think being unique is a flaw or bad writing IF done properly. Using cliches or plain bad writing is just plain unforgivable. I mean look at Matt Ward. /smirk Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3559654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 *shrug* I'll read this later tonight then. I was on last night and was like, wait... golly gee? I'll read this and see if there is any useful advice I can give beyond, "No, I'm Spartagus!" I was wondering how long it would take you to pop onto the B&C and see this ;) Which reminds me, I'll have to go back and read your IT sometime. I have a crappy memory, but I do somehow remember that I enjoyed it. Anyway, enough of the thread derail. Apologies to LongGone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3559701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 If they were going to use Traitor Gene-Seed, it would be the Cursed Founding. EDIT: Good. Nothing stands out as being snowflake/mary sue. Cursed Founding, Dark Founding... tomaytoes, tomahtoes... Just messing. I confused them in my head, but they're definitely not interchangeable. They both provide unique opportunities for IA's though. Do have one question/thought: I think the 21st would be better for mutated geneseed, while the 13th would be better suited for traitor geneseed as there are mysteriously no records of the chapters created or geneseed used. Does that sound right? It sounds logical in my head, but I have been known to be wrong on occasion. It's not pertinent to the actual IA, but it was brought up so I figured I would derail my own thread for a second just for future reference. EDIT: I don't think being unique is a flaw or bad writing IF done properly. Using cliches or plain bad writing is just plain unforgivable. I mean look at Matt Ward. /smirk Dude brings the hate and discontent out of everyone! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3560069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Update the Geneseed section and laid out what I have so far for the Organization. The organization is pretty bare bones, but you can see the direction I'm heading in. I've decided to have the chapter organized outside the tenets of the Codex and mirror the natives of their homeworld. I also added a Battle Cry section, but I'm not totally sure it's necessary. I'm also not 100% sold on the Chapter Appearance section. Both of those sections are pretty small, and while they cover nifty details, they're not exactly important details. I can move the image of the battle brother to the beginning and get basically the same idea across. The only thing I can't do a different way is the chapter symbol, as I'm Photoshop deficient and the word picture is the best I can do. Anyways, let me know what you think. Once I get these last few sections locked down I'm just going to focus on formatting and making it look purrty! LG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3560302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefect Apollyon Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 On the Founding front, the only (semi-)confirmed Gene-Seed used in the 13th is Raven Guard for the Death Specters. Their mutations back this up. There is evidence that the Cursed Founding may have used Traitor Gene-Seed; Minotaurs, Sons of Antaeus... As for your own Gene-Seed section, yep, all good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3560304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I was wondering how long it would take you to pop onto the B&C and see this ;) Which reminds me, I'll have to go back and read your IT sometime. I have a crappy memory, but I do somehow remember that I enjoyed it. Anyway, enough of the thread derail. Apologies to LongGone.I've been pretty active on the forums lately. Honestly, I debated ignoring this IA due to the name. Pretending it never existed. You saw how well that worked out. I'd appreciate some feedback. Do it over PM if you wouldn't mind. No need to dredge the old girl up until I've finished my reference material gathering, notes from the HH novels and then the rewrite. @LG: Looking okay so far. Some more constructive criticism as you near the final stages. The overall IA feels a little stale. You did an awesome job hooking me from the beginning with the quote at the top and then you kind of loose me. You get me back in the home world section, only to loose me again afterwards. Try to find a way to jazz it up the rest of the article while still being able to maintain the character from the intro quote and home world sections and I think this will be a well polished IA by the time you're done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3562543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Wow, so different from the Chapter I first read, but better by far. Great job developing them, and it looks like you've had plenty of critique to help you along. I think I just have a few notes: The Purge, second paragraph last sentence "Despite being awarded" I'd give more detail about influences on the Chapter's new outlook. Right now it looks more like 21 straight years of war broke the killing machines made to endure centuries of war, when I think you were going more for "What did they just make us do?" I'm fine with the organization and homeworld, but wasn't really hooked again until that quote from the CM, which feels like it has a hint of dissension in it with the throne part. Not sure if that's what Nephilim was talking about, but great quote. Beliefs are also good, but a stronger common thread from Origins, through Organization to Beliefs would help a lot. Here's what I mean: That element of exactly WHY they are now "fallen", which should somehow inform their abandonment of the Codex and what it represents, which may have a two way street of influence with the beliefs and traditions adopted from the tribes. That line about being loathe to risk brothers is unclear. What I'm getting is conflict between "they only fight with allies begrudgingly" and "they fight willingly with other IF they show the merit". Again, good quote, but if you didn't want me to murmur "khoooorne-y" in the back of my mind, you might need a little light in all this darkness. I think the idea was reinforced by the fact that I had to go back and read the beliefs twice to see that the Chapter ever considered the Emperor in anything they did (that's the Chapter, not the human pop.). From there on in, I'm cool with it. I don't think you need a name change, and I don't see changing the gene-seed adding much, but reading this, I'm sure you could make it work if you wanted to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3562853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Messor, yes I was definitely going for the "What did they just make us do?" feeling. Do you have a suggestion on how I go about emphasizing that? I talk about how they fell far short of the idealized image of themselves they had in their heads, how they lost control. Do I just need to up that a little bit? It's funny that you and Nephilim like that quote so much. That is a holdover from the original draft, which didn't have a fall. In the original, the homeworld was less a gift and more a move by the High Lords to send a chapter they now saw as overly brutal to the far reaches of space. That lil' tidbit got left on the cutting room floor in the transition. I hadn't planned on keeping it, but the reception it's getting has changed my mind. Common thread. I think I can do that. Yeah, what I was going for in the beliefs section was that they are a more offensive styled chapter, but that if a planet/army/any group of people have the gumption to fight, they will fight in defense of them. As far as the second sidebar quote, I need to change it, I just haven't figured out what exactly I want to do with it. Its gonna be a day or two before I get to all these changes and a finalized organization section. Work has been a little crazy. Thanks for the C&C though! LG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3563196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Looking forward to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3563277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 @LG: Looking okay so far. Some more constructive criticism as you near the final stages. The overall IA feels a little stale. You did an awesome job hooking me from the beginning with the quote at the top and then you kind of loose me. You get me back in the home world section, only to loose me again afterwards. Try to find a way to jazz it up the rest of the article while still being able to maintain the character from the intro quote and home world sections and I think this will be a well polished IA by the time you're done. (I'm apparently 'quote' as well as Photoshop deficient) Nephilim, Whoops, don't know how I missed your comment above Messor's. Glad I did see it though. When you say 'jazz' it up, what kind of things are you looking for? Do you want me to play up the barbarian influence of the homeworld in the other sections? I'm glad I was able to hook you into providing some C&C! Keep it coming LG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3563304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 No worries. By jazz it up, I mean try to bring in some more unique flavor across the other sections. Each section isn't a stand alone essay but a continuation of the same article. IA articles are supposed to be a snapshot of the present. Spend less time on the past and give us the now, with all the fallen angelic barbarian flavor you can muster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-nephilim-updated-1-aug-2014/page/3/#findComment-3563325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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