Aurelian - Spoiler Zone - A Quesion to Word Bearer Zealots

[The Nephilim]

First off, the Word Bearers have always had a special place in my heart. Probably for a multitude of reasons (a discussion for another day), and they have always interested me. I'm rereading the Horus Heresy novels presently in an unconventional manner. I'm focusing on legion specific stories. Having finished all of the present EC stuff, I've moved on to the WB and have once again become engrossed with the legion I almost picked over the EC.

 

To the meat of the discussion: Having finished Aurelian, I find my passion completely reignited for the original heretics. Initially, I've almost always been of the opinion that all of the Primarchs are rather bland and most of them are such fools, they can't even grasp what is going on in their spheres of influence. Lorgar, more than any of them. After Aurelian, I'm blown away. Not only did Lorgar grow some cojones during and after the Pilgrimage, he actually became more powerful, and mastered his sphere. I especially liked how he gained a massive since of well-deserved confidence and swagger.

 

What about you heathen zealots? What were/are your thoughts.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Din't read Aurelian yet, but of what i saw in Betrayer, the latest HH books have shed a welcoming light on the renegade Primarchs, specially Lorgar and Angron.

[Dammeron]

I am utterly, utterly blown away by the portrayal of Lorgar in AD-B's books. I recently finished Aurelian too, and it is one of the best examples of Warhammer 40,000 fiction out there. I love the way it dispenses with the "bolter porn" segments of other HH books and goes straight for the meat and metaphysics of the universe. These, for me, are the most fascinating aspects of the 40K mythology, being, as they are, far more complex and enlightened than the pulpy manner in which it is often presented acknowledges.

 

As for Lorgar himself, I have found, thanks to my readings of The First Heretic, Aurelian and Betrayer, my perception of the character totally and delightfully subverted; I always had it in mind that he would be a fundamentalist fanatic; an unbending bigot akin to those we find out in the waking world who stoke tribal violence amongst their flocks. Not so; instead, he is portrayed as a considered, intelligent and subtle metaphysician; someone who is actively seeking truth and meaning and poetry in his existence rather than attempting to impose it on others. Of all the Primarchs, alongside Magnus the Red and Fulgrim, he is the one I identify with most closely, since he seems the most humble and human of the lot. What's more, the manner in which he's portrayed and the shape that his quest takes in these books seems to vindicate him: Chaos is the fundamental truth of the 40K universe; the only truth worth considering; the only source of meaning and perpetuity in a universe set to extinguish humanity at every instance. The fact that it is a dark and terrible truth is incidental, and that adds another delicious ayer to the character, too, in that he is reluctant; critical and self propelled; he is not willing to be the dupe or puppet of daemons or gods; he wants to exist in a kind of symbiotic relationship with them. We clearly see evidence of this during his interactions with Ingethel and the Bloodthirster whose backside he trounces; he will not bend to them or take them at their word; he wants to be clear as to their nature and intentions. This makes him more akin to Magnus the Red, but arguably even more intelligent and expansive in his scope; Magnus was always blinded by his own ego, whereas Lorgar is not: he will take the truth for what it is, even it is terrible, even if he cannot be its master. There is something very sobering and enlightened about that position, especially given that he doesn't come to it blindly or without experience: he journeys directly into the Eye, comports with the avatars of the Gods themselves to establish it.

 

At the moment, unless some external revelation occurs to determine how he is being duped or is misguided, Lorgar seems to have the right of it, even if it is a terrible and wicked truth he follows.

 

Easily one of my favourite books in the entire series, and one of my favourite bits of 40K fiction full stop.

[The Nephilim]

See... I see Lorgar a little bit differently, I think. The authors, AD-B and Dan Abnett go to such lengths to write about Lorgar's perceived humility, I think it's a ploy. I don't think Lorgar is that humble. I think he thinks he's humble, the same way a sociopathic, narcissist would claim humility, but he also believes it's his destiny to reveal the Primordial Truth to the unwashed masses. If that doesn't speak of a deep level of egotism, I don't know what does. You could totally get his smugness in his discussion with Magnus in Aurelian. I would dare say that Lorgar is almost as narcissistic as Fulgrim. He just has more charisma and is ability to deceive everyone with a false sense of humility.

 

The scene in Episode II when Senator Palpatine gets elected as the Chancellor is totally Lorgar.

 

At least, that's this heathen's not so humble opinion.

[Tenebris]

While I know that the daemons went to great lengths to deceive Lorgar about Chaos there was still a lot of truth behind the words his guide. All in all, after reading Aurelian I cannot bring myself to ever again play the loyalists, the truth, horrible and majestic as it may be is truth, the souls of mortals linger in the Warp and the faithful while not rewarded with the heavens have at least the surety to end in hell. In the end Chaos gives a man the choice to decide the fate of not only his body but also of his soul and this it the sinister truth and that is why the Corpse God Emperor needs to die and humanity must have its eyes thorn open if need be. 

 

The Thousand Sons proved on Prospero that a harmonious society can function when it is aware of the Warp and the entities in it, also Aurelian proved that the faith in Chaos is much more tangible than mere mortal gifts like mutations or healing or immortality, it allows a person to tune his soul to Chaos and than become the master of his own fate. Also, the part I loved most, the human form can transcend the mere needs of the here and now, of the physical universe and become one with the immaterial. The Thousand Sons Sorcerer was a proof of that, that when one's soul is tuned to the Warp the concerns of mortal life drift away, this is not functional immortality but it is the ascension in the purest form, when one becomes part of the universe or the chosen god. 

 

In short, Aurelian IMO speaks that humanity can have a choice to not only master the physical but also the metaphysical, it speaks that a soul, every soul can ascend and that the harmony between born and neverborn, between man and daemon or angel, depends on how one imagines the Warp can bring prosperity, the salvation from mortality and the possibility to transcend the boundaries of flesh and soul and ascend as a being of will, be it the will of a dark god if you venerate one, or as a being shaped by your own will if you are strong enough.

 

In the end after Aurelian I find that killing loyalists is a dire price for the illumination of mankind and a price I am well willing to fight for with my army. In short, I understand Chaos for what it means to humanity and while some truths are too horrible to behold those are still truths, truths for which is right and proper to spill loyalist blood. It is not our fault if humanity is to blind to see the light, hence we have the right of an illuminated soul to drag humanity to the light if need be.

[Karthak]

Interesting. After reading Aurelian I was more convinced than ever that Lorgar was a fool for doing what he did, and that Chaos must be opposed at every turn. There was a time when the warp was calm and the gods did not exist. And everything that has a beginning has an end.

 

And regarding "the truth" I'll let Tartugai Yesugei speak: 

‘How long you been corrupted?’ the witch asked. Kal found that his lips could move again. He stared defiantly back at the White Scars legionary. ‘Since we knew the truth,’ he replied. The witch looked at him, bewildered. ‘Truth? What truth drive you to this?’ ‘The only one.’ ‘One truth.’ The White Scar shook his head. ‘How foolish.’

 

Chaos is not the only source of power. Some of the Eldar gods yet live, and the orks have Gork and Mork. Then there were the C'tan. In such a vast and varied galaxy, to say that Chaos is the only truth seems awfully narrowminded to me.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Lorgar, more than any of them. After Aurelian, I'm blown away. Not only did Lorgar grow some cojones during and after the Pilgrimage, he actually became more powerful, and mastered his sphere. I especially liked how he gained a massive since of well-deserved confidence and swagger.

 

What about you heathen zealots? What were/are your thoughts.

 

I haven't read Aurelian yet, but I liked Lorgar's change of attitude in Betrayer. Before he was confused and upset and sort of ineffectual as a leader, but now he seems to have "found himself." I especially liked the scenes where he talked to Magnus and Angron, and his casual Force Throw of a Rhino into the face of an enemy Warhound Titan was pretty cool. I even got a sense that he actually did want to help his brother, instead of just wanting to turn him into a daemon prince because it was what the Dark Powers wanted.

[Wade Garrett]

Lorgar is my favorite Traitor Primarch, and I believe he has good intentions...but those good intentions are leading him farther and farther into complete damnation.

 

Sure, he saved Angron from the Butcher's Nails on Nuceria...by forcing him to be a dog on a chain for a master far darker and more terrible than the Emperor could ever be.

 

To levy a final judgement on the path he chose to walk, you have to look at what became of his Legion ten thousand years later:

 

The XVII of M41 aren't a sacred brotherhood of holy warriors bringing enlightenment to mankind, they are a snake pit of trustless, FAITHless backstabbers wrapped up in their own ambitions, each one caring for nothing except what favors he personally can wheedle out of the gods.

 

Erebus. Kor Phaeron. Marduk. Eliaphas. Dogs that grovel for mad gods when they aren't snapping at one another, all of them. There's what Lorgar's path gets you.

[The Nephilim]

 

Erebus. Kor Phaeron. Marduk. Eliaphas. Dogs that grovel for mad gods when they aren't snapping at one another, all of them. There's what Lorgar's path gets you.

And what a glorious path it is.

[Brother Ambroz]

 

 

Erebus. Kor Phaeron. Marduk. Eliaphas. Dogs that grovel for mad gods when they aren't snapping at one another, all of them. There's what Lorgar's path gets you.

And what a glorious path it is.

Ehh give me an honest murderer and psychopath any day over the murder clothed in piety.

 

Aurelian was a very good book, a bit short but amazing none the less. My favorite part was with Horus and Fulgrim.