Phoebus Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Per Codex: Dark Angels - “There have been whispers that Anaziel had the Disciples of Caliban created for a specific purpose, often rumoured amongst the other Unforgiven to be for the single-minded pursuit and capture of the renegade known as Cypher.” The Cypher Dataslate doesn't make a single mention of the Disciples of Caliban, though. Several other Chapters of the Unforgiven are mentioned in association with the hunt to bring down Cypher - including a hitherto unmentioned Successor - but the Disciples aren't even brought up in passing. On the other hand, the Cypher connection to the Disciples was always mentioned as a rumor. So what do you think? Is this a case of author's accidental omission, or was there never really a connection between Cypher and the Disciples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Phoebus, I noticed that too. While I would like to think it's them being cryptic (if you had a secret organization meant for hunting down cypher would you tell the imperium?) however my pessimistic side is thinking the Data Slate writers are not well versed in their writing aka they didn't read Codex DA. Just me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 sounds like misinformation perhaps, as to their role. If people think they are chasing one guy, they could be doing something else without people getting overtly suspicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 In lieu of the writers' accidental omission, I would take it to mean the Disciples of Caliban are just THAT good. Cypher doesn't realize they're on his trail... because even the Disciples don't realize they are! Genius!! Seriously, yet another misinformation page in the Imperium's book of Who's Who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 The only thing that bothers me about the misinformation idea is that only the Inner Circle would have a reason to believe the Disciples are going after Cypher to begin with. So if it's a case of misinformation, then it only applies to readers of Codex: Dark Angels. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea that members in rungs of the Inner Circle high enough to know of Cypher but not high enough to know everything might make that assumption. I'm just not sure that said assumption is correct if a document specifically about Cypher excludes said Chapter altogether... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think it's just the case of two differnt books ade by two different writers so sometimes somethings don't match and/or left unsaid. Loook at things this way: We know there's a full Chapter hellbent on capturing Cypher... but does he know he has a Chapter created for hunting his head? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Awww and I was hoping for more conspiracies to go with our conspiracies that are wrapped in enigma's and sprinkled with innuendo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Awww and I was hoping for more conspiracies to go with our conspiracies that are wrapped in enigma's and sprinkled with innuendo.It's like trying to see the forest through the trees, or the Deathwing through the terminators, or the Ravenwing through the bikes, or the Fallen through the Dark Angel robes, or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It may have to do with the fact that the DoC are a relatively new Chapter (37 Mill?) and not a part of the formative period of the Cypher story. As far Cypher is concerned they are just a footnote - besides, there is no mention of a particular victory of the DoCs over Cyphet - not even a contact if I'm not mistaken. I'm not saying there was none, but nothing that the other Unforgiven have not already done to some degree. Again from the perspective of Cypher the DoCs are nothing to write home about. So far... :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Four thousand years us a long time for there not to have been even one meaningful encounter, though... New rumor: Anaziel created the Disciples of Caliban to covertly protect Cypher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Phoebus, is there no end to your Heresy? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmaspam Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Per Codex: Dark Angels - “There have been whispers that Anaziel had the Disciples of Caliban created for a specific purpose, often rumoured amongst the other Unforgiven to be for the single-minded pursuit and capture of the renegade known as Cypher.” The Cypher Dataslate doesn't make a single mention of the Disciples of Caliban, though. Several other Chapters of the Unforgiven are mentioned in association with the hunt to bring down Cypher - including a hitherto unmentioned Successor - but the Disciples aren't even brought up in passing. On the other hand, the Cypher connection to the Disciples was always mentioned as a rumor. So what do you think? Is this a case of author's accidental omission, or was there never really a connection between Cypher and the Disciples? I'd say it's a case of nothing written in any Codex being worth a damn beyond the Unit and weapon stats pages. As wise men have told us many times, the truth is mutable and subject to interpretation given the eddies of the warp (i.e. "we make it up as we go along, and don't check back between editions on what the established history may be"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Phoebus not so loud dude! The Chaplains will hear you. Then its what are you Disciples doing really? Have you washed your robes today? Benedictions done? Bolter cleaned? (sneaks this in like its nothing) Oh and what do you know about Cypher? Don't lie to me boy! That's it Watchers in the Dark take him away knives will loosen his tongue or his mind or his soul. Either way I've got someone else to practice on...............(Poor little ole me having never seen Cypher will tell this to the nice Chaplain and what do I get?) He throws me in a cell with a poster of Cypher on the Wall. "There now you've seen him. NOW TELL ME EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT CYPHER!" My response: "Ummmm you have a poster of him above your bed at night?" Chaplain: "That's what Phoebus said damnit! It's a conspiracy isn't it?! You both got together before we found you and talked this over so your stories were straight!" Me: "Ummmmm Phoebus doesn't even like me man. I mean last time he wrote 'kick me' on the back of my robes. He also got the Watchers to steal my boots. Now all I've got is these damn elf shoes." Chaplain: "As I suspected..........it all becomes clearer. The Disciples of Caliban are in on the shoe epidemic. There must be a link between Cypher and the shoes. He is walking his way to Terra and needs new boots!" By this time the Chaplain is pacing the room back and forth nodding to himself becoming more and more involved............. Chaplain: "Soon I will get Captain Semper's respect...............very soon. Quick get me a Serf!...............Go tell Captain Semper that I've uncovered a devious shoe plot that will undoubtedly lead to the renegade Cypher just as soon as I break this Disciples will!" Chaplain cracks his knuckles and begins his maniacal laugh as I begin to whimper and cry "Not again. Phoebus someday I will find my boots..........and my dignity." P.S. This hour of lunacy brought to you by and overactive imagination. DoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Ahhh.... musings upon why Grand Master Anaziel requested the founding of The Disciples of Caliban... Consider this: For our Brothers in the Unforgiven, Cypher alone is a worthy excuse, that none would look deeper past...one that makes the occasional reappearance of squads and companies of the Lions Sable and their integration into the Disciples unseen. The Warp is a strange force, after all... and We all know that our Legion must stand.(no matter what Papa Smurf decrees) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Here's a more serious elaboration to my earlier joke: “Some of the Masters within the Dark Angels claim that Cypher is under the protection of some higher power and that he represents the Fallen Angels’ only chance of redemption.”Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Codex: Dark Angels.” Games Workshop, 2013. iBooks. “A few of those in the Inner Circle – not the Interrogator Chaplains, but those of more open minds – consider another possibility. Perhaps Cypher is trying to repent, trying to redeem his Fallen brethren’s deeds, or to steer Humanity away from some predestined course known only to himself? Those who feel this way are silent, for this is actually a more frightening thought – it would mean the Dark Angels are on the wrong side once again…”Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Dataslate: Cypher.” iBooks. Such a belief constitutes a serious schism within the Inner Circle. Zealous temperaments like those of Asmodai probably ensure that such opinions are voiced very softly and quietly, lest they be violently suppressed.But what if such a belief was more prevalent in the M37, in light of Cypher's many, ahem, contradictory activities? What if Supreme Grand Master Anaziel decided that the surest way to avoid a violent internal purge was to use the "radicals" within the Dark Angels to create a new Chapter?To begin with, let's qualify the obvious: the Disciples are counted among the Unforgiven. As for their mission? “There have been whispers that Anaziel had the Disciples of Caliban created for a specific purpose, often rumoured amongst the other Unforgiven …”Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Codex: Dark Angels.” Games Workshop, 2013. iBooks. Emphasis mine. And what is the mission of this Unforgiven Chapter? “Cypher weaves through the anarchy, his trail highlighting the many Fallen that have taken positions of power during the uprisings in Segmentum Pacificus.”Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Dataslate: Cypher.” iBooks. “In battle, rebels, squads of Chaos Terminators and Daemon Princes have all accompanied Cypher. He has gathered and led squads of Fallen that have campaigned together since the Fall of Caliban ... The one thing they all have in common is that they serve a purpose in Cypher’s plans and he easily abandons them to their fates as befits the circumstances of his mission.”Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Dataslate: Cypher.” iBooks. Under my admittedly far-fetched theory the Disciples believe that Cypher is trying to redeem the Fallen, that he uses those that can't be redeemed as pawns in a larger game against Chaos, and that he highlights those he no longer needs to the Unforgiven so that they can be captured. Thus, they do follow Cypher... but only because they believe doing so is the surest way to find his fellow Fallen. They would never admit this to the rest of the Unforgiven, but they believe that the Fallen can be redeemed, and that those who Cypher has cast off are the truly evil and unredeemable. Thus, their Hunt is highly selective. They will not, however, aid Cypher in any way: this is Anaziel's Edict, which they are sworn to obey.Currently, only Azrael, Ezekiel, and Sapphon know the truth behind the Disciples of Caliban. In the eyes of those Grand Masters, the Disciples walk a treacherous path. This is opinion hasn't changed in the four millennia since Anaziel himself was Supreme Grand Master. Given this, the Disciples are required to adhere to extremely stringent standards: “... the purity of the Chapter’s gene-seed is constantly monitored for the slightest sign of corruption or degradation, and it has the most exacting standards of recruitment of any of the Unforgiven.”Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Codex: Dark Angels.” Games Workshop, 2013. iBooks. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 And, to add upon my earlier post.... The Lions Sable witnessed the actions of Cypher first hand in the Eye (during the Forgotten Wars), the heraldry of the Disciples of Caliban is a Black Lion, etc... I believe their purpose is to shadow Cypher, absorb any reclaimed Lions Sable (and any Redeemed, hence the gene testing), and generally add to the hidden numbers of the First Legion. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 The Disciples of Caliban have a white lion as their symbol. Perhaps that adds to the redemption factor, though? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Thank you for the correction, Brother Phoebus.... And yes, it feels as though it is redemptive. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Ah... I love all these theories. Especially a possible schism within the Inner Circle. Put me down as pro-Cypher. I just feel a subtle shift in how he is currently being portrayed. Not quite an ally yet but possibly less of a villain than previously. The idea that the DoC are shadowing Cypher and acting as a vehicle for redeemed Fallen and Lions Sable is just too outlandish for words - which means it could quite possibly be true ;). Cheers I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 In answer to the original question raised, it seems to me that the creators of the dataslate may simply have not done all their research. The connection (whatever it may be) between Cypher and the Disciples of Caliban remains, it is rumored amongst the Unforgiven that the Disciples are chasing Cypher. Make of it what you will. Have always adored Cypher's background, especially after reading the series that I draw my avatar from. A preternaturally skilled gunslinger, on a journey through space and time which are both falling apart, who gathers companions and abandons them in utterly ruthless and single-minded pursuit of his goal, tied to a tragic past rooted in betrayal, the machinations of primeval forces of disorder, and the fall of a mighty realm from glory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Phoebus, I think you should put your excellent theory on the Lexicanium. It'll be quoted somewhere as Truth within six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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