What 2014 will bring

[Jorre]

 

I'd like to see

 

BA Chapter tactics = 6+ feel no pain

 

I really hope not... thats not really remotely in keeping with how the BAs have been portrayed, and steps on the Iron Hands toes. 

 

It could be something like all BAs get furious charge, and either once per game, or once per turn each squad makes a check and if they roll a 1, they get rage and possibly fearless, that would mean that all BAs are ferocious (represented by +1 Str on the charge) but if they give in to the 'animal within' they would to all intents and purposes be proto death company. 

 

I guess this isn't so much of a fluff desire on my part, but more of a way to make them more competative. Which could be done many other ways. I would love to be able to see Blood Angels become the competative hand to hand combat marines, and to accomplish that they need either cheaper marines or a effective way to get into combat without taking casualties jumping across the board/dealing with intercepter and dealing with overwatch etc etc. Basically we need a way to engage our our opponent up close without being blown off the table in 2 turns! Feel no pain would be a good way of doing that unless they can come up with a new unique mechanic to help us out.

 

I really dont think we would be stepping on anyones toes either, since im pretty sure we where the first chapter to have access to the rule back in 3rd edition and its become a bigger and bigger part of our army with every new edition since! If anything its new to the Iron hands!

[redshadow]

Chapter Tactics

Blood Rage, all blood angels have the furious charge and feel no pain special rule.

 

Red Thirst, all blood angel within 8 inch of an enemy model must attempt to charge in the assualt phase and

                   they may re-roll thier charge dice. 

[Chaplain Admetus]

I doubt we'd get FnP as a Chapter Tactic as the Iron Hands already have it. Red Thirst and DoA work just fine for us, though maybe RT could be reworked. Descent of Angels is already nice, I'd be more than happy to keep it as-is, maybe with Vanguard keeping the old (current for us) rules rather than getting the blue marine update. If there was a buff involved, could even have the caveat that deep striking units with DoA don't count towards the 50% reserve limit a la drop pod style, but that seems like it might be a bit too powerful.

 

Anyone had any thoughts on warlord traits? I'm thinking a 0 scatter deep strike (re-roll if your warlord has no jump pack) might feature - similar to Farsight's trait and Dante's ability. Some kind of reserve manipulation might be good, since that plays into the slight prophetic nature of Blood Angels. And something that gains a benefit on the charge (probably a once-per-game thing) would be almost a guarantee.

[Sanguine Eternal]

I hope we don't get FnP for a chapter tactic either.  I would like ways to improve it with priests.  Even a priest upgrade for sgts.  Then FnP is squad specific, and the priests can take wargear, and that way they don't take up any FOC.

Something along the lines of a single weapon of the sgt.s can be upgraded to mastercrafted as well would be cool, being artisans and all...  Death Masks for sgts would also be nice.  FLAK MISSILES for tac squads.

I would like Astorath to actually give DC scoring maybe.  I feel that if they aren't guided into battle by a character that they should be be forced to move, run, and assault the closest enemy unit.  I like fielding majority DC in my games, that is my choice I know, but scoring with a character (besides a lucky warlord trait roll) would be nice.

CHEAPER JUMP PACKS ARMY WIDE.

I don't think we will get anything for assaulting after deepstrike/pods.  Still seems overly powerful especially if it's army wide.

We need something to weather the overwatch storm though.  Played against Tau again the other day and surprisingly won, but overwatch is a killer.

For warlord traits I like the 0 scatter.  Although DoA is still really good, just pre measure your 7" away from anything scary, and you get to re-roll your failed reserve attempt anyway.  But 0 scatter is always nice.  The re-roll reserves I have used a few times in game for BRB traits, and it is really good as well, so useful, especially for outflanking units. 

I would like to see traits that help us get into combat or something like re-roll charge distance.  Hammer of wrath could be good too, and easily portrayed for angry BA marines from a fluff perspective.

I'd like to see a new BA specific unit (not vehicle unless assault transport).  We don't need another tank, or flyer.  The SR is still great, and so is the Baal pred.
 

[skyst]

I need a Rhino upgrade to let me assault out of it. I really miss doing that.

 

Unfortunately, we seem to be the jump pack army these days.

[Theduke08]

I think some kind of an upgrade option in death company to take into account veterans and even officers being inducted so there is more of a representation than just regular marines would be cool.  Basically like a sergeant upgrade without being a sergeant.

[Sanguine Eternal]

I think some kind of an upgrade option in death company to take into account veterans and even officers being inducted so there is more of a representation than just regular marines would be cool.  Basically like a sergeant upgrade without being a sergeant.

 

Like back in 3rd ed, where DC were randomized.  The whole point of upgrading to a vet sgt back then was so that you picked him to join the DC and he gained a power weapon for free.

 

I don't entirely mind going back to the old ways of of D3+3 DC with a chaplain or something on top of the roll off for each squad at the beginning of the game.

[Riedler]

I love Tacticals to the point I probably should be playing C:SM. I would like Blood Angels to be strong at short ranges, not only in close combat. I don`t want to be a Khorne Berzerker. I want to rush Tacticals in rhinoes/LRs or in drop pods and to keep jump packs on my assault marines, but want rules to benefit this.

 

A cheep flyer would be welcome. Storm talon fine with me.

 

Sang guard 5-10 models.

 

Captain needs access to more gear, and I would like to have honor guards with cheeper cc weapons. I think a honor guard with jp and pw is to expensive. I do not like that this unit is best equiped with 4 special weapons.

 

Death company are to strong. They should be toned down, WS 4 would be ok. The chaplain should not give reroll wound.

 

Flak missiles.

 

It would be nice with good scouts to support our up and close army.

 

Move something away from elites. Its to crowded there.

[Morticon]

The addition of stun grenades would work so well.

 

Either -1Init to the enemy (all the time) or a -D3 Init to the enemy, but you can only use one type of grenade on the charge (so if theyre in cover, you have to choose).

 

i dont see that as being mad op -and i think its a nice throw back to what we had start of 3rd.

 

Would also be really, really awesome to see us getting "Rhino-ramp-lite TM" - ie: BA can assault after disembarking, providing the vehicle did not move at all that turn (or was destroyed previous turn).  Again, something not game breaking but will truly shift the playstyle to what we're best known for. 

 

Another alternative suggestion/wish list would be for our tacs to be able to charge after using rapid fire weapons (or even just bolters!). 

[Rafen IX]

I agree mort. From a fluff and army specific point of view BA were meant to be a cq firefight specialised army. But I dearly want to see what they do with assault in the tyranids codex as a possible precursor to ours.

 

Edit. Cc changed to cq

[Sanguine Eternal]

@Riedler

You think DC are OP?  A kitted out squad of 10 can easily be 500+ points before you even get to the chaplain or reclusiarch.  They can easily be gunned down just as any other marine from mass firepower.  Sure they will kill anything they assault, but they will lose models getting there.  Then you've wiped out the squad you just assaulted in your turn, now it's their turn to open fire with everything they have.  WS5 isn't really that big of a deal, unless fighting elite units.

The re-rolls are justified IMO with the extreme points cost.  A 1 wound model at around 50 points give or take options, I better get some re-rolls.

[Leksington]

I don't like 10 man Sanguinary Guard.  

 

Especially with their Banner, there is too much room for synergy with Librarians, HQ, and SPs.  This will result in the unit being either beardy cheesy or overpriced, with not much room in between.  I honestly see a 10 man squad as a death sentence for the SG.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I don't like 10 man Sanguinary Guard.  

 

Especially with their Banner, there is too much room for synergy with Librarians, HQ, and SPs.  This will result in the unit being either beardy cheesy or overpriced, with not much room in between.  I honestly see a 10 man squad as a death sentence for the SG.

 

As opposed to the death sentence they currently have? Every army as a power unit that's got death star potential. Why not make it the sexist looking unit in the game for Blood Angels?

[SnorriSnorrison]

If we were going to introduce some sort of stun grenades, we could just as well bring back the old Red Thirst and Black Rage special rules. The latter for the rather fluffy, but more balancing approach on DC(however these two words may fit together) and the first to bring back our thunder. It's really no difference, even not when wiping units in close combat. Or am I missing something?

Anyway, I'd like to see some more randomness. Red Thirst roll at the beginning of every turn with more special rules applying to the affected units, yet an unvoluntary move towards the enemy. Perhaps combine with penalties for overwatching units when attacked by "thirsting" marines.

While I said earlier I'd like to see a more random approach on how the Death Company is formed, i.e. with rolls for each unit but before you deploy and don't lose Marines (eve before battle, eh!) and simply add wargear options, just some cheaper wargear is fine with me as well.

I know that since the 5th edition vanilla codex hit, people like to downgrade the Flaw to a simple Chapter Tactic kind of special rule. I disagree. If we had Chapter Tactics, they'd probably be Assault Marines as Troops and overcharged engines. So why not add chapter tactics that would actually be new to us? Perhaps as Mort suggested, firing bolters and being able to charge for Tactical Marines since they're the most experienced marines in a battle company.

The point is...whatever we think of as chapter tactics, it should be some army-composition stuff rather than having inhuman strength, a strong lust for violence and superior resilience even when compared to other marines. ;)

A 10 men unit of Sanguinary Guard beats the purpose of a unit like that, from a fluff perspective. Most of the time I'm trying to combine the background and some sense-making rules, so I think we rather increase the basic profile of the SG rather than their unit size. WS5 is a given, perhaps introduce a re-roll of some kind (to hit in close combat, perhaps even in shooting).

Another thing are the Glaives. As soon as SG need an axe against an elite unit, you're better off fielding DC instead and just spam attacks to make sure they fail their armour saves.

While I highly doubt the Glaives are ever going to be ap2 for every weapon type, something like rending would be nice, to even the odds. They're mastercrafted, just add one sentence and you're done.

Also, Assault Veterans. Said that before, so I'm not going to elaborate again.

Just some thoughts. Keep popping up in my head.

Snorri

[Terrahawk]

Since I should be doing something work-related instead of posting here, I'll keep it very short. But agreed very strongly with Brother Snorri, I think the Flaw should really be felt on the table-top, since that is what at it's core defines the Blood Angels. Rolling every turn for it is a good way to get this across. DC should also have a certain element of randomness to it.

And yeah, bring back the Veteran Assault Squad! BA Veterans fight only with Jump Packs or in TDA, so as a trade-off let's remove Sternguard like was said earlier. Haha, I know many will disagree with this one, hell I might even disagree with it myself.

[Morticon]

@Riedler

 

You think DC are OP?  A kitted out squad of 10 can easily be 500+ points before you even get to the chaplain or reclusiarch.  They can easily be gunned down just as any other marine from mass firepower.  Sure they will kill anything they assault, but they will lose models getting there.  Then you've wiped out the squad you just assaulted in your turn, now it's their turn to open fire with everything they have.  WS5 isn't really that big of a deal, unless fighting elite units.

 

The re-rolls are justified IMO with the extreme points cost.  A 1 wound model at around 50 points give or take options, I better get some re-rolls.

 

 

This is why no one plays jumpy DC.  

 

Regular foot DC are 20 points a model.  So, a squad of 10 with a PF and a PW is 240 points.  Thats pretty awesome.  Throw in a Pod and you're good to go. 

[t4play]

Step away from the DC they are fine as is

Except I do think a roll at the start of a turn to add from other units would be good again

Especially for flesh tearers

[infyrana]

Just that jump pack cost and assault in this edition still spoils them a little :)

[t4play]

Oh yeh Cheaper JP for those that use them ;-)

[Leksington]

 

I don't like 10 man Sanguinary Guard.  

 

Especially with their Banner, there is too much room for synergy with Librarians, HQ, and SPs.  This will result in the unit being either beardy cheesy or overpriced, with not much room in between.  I honestly see a 10 man squad as a death sentence for the SG.

 

As opposed to the death sentence they currently have? Every army as a power unit that's got death star potential. Why not make it the sexist looking unit in the game for Blood Angels?

 

 

When I step back and think of what should be the identity of a new BA codex I think of mobility and finesse, not plopping deathstars on the table and pushing them forward.

 

-Make Sang Guard significantly cheaper,

-take away Dante's ability to make them troops (reducing Dante's point cost),

-and give BA (or at least SG) back some sort of initiative advantage on the charge.

 

A bonus is that all of a sudden you can field a max of 30 SG in 2 detachments; right in line with the fluff.

[Sanguine Eternal]

 

@Riedler

 

You think DC are OP?  A kitted out squad of 10 can easily be 500+ points before you even get to the chaplain or reclusiarch.  They can easily be gunned down just as any other marine from mass firepower.  Sure they will kill anything they assault, but they will lose models getting there.  Then you've wiped out the squad you just assaulted in your turn, now it's their turn to open fire with everything they have.  WS5 isn't really that big of a deal, unless fighting elite units.

 

The re-rolls are justified IMO with the extreme points cost.  A 1 wound model at around 50 points give or take options, I better get some re-rolls.

 

 

This is why no one plays jumpy DC.  

 

Regular foot DC are 20 points a model.  So, a squad of 10 with a PF and a PW is 240 points.  Thats pretty awesome.  Throw in a Pod and you're good to go. 

 

I field 10 jump DC in most games, I would hardly say no one plays them.  JP's at least give me the option to hide behind terrain and strike at the right moment, and re-roll charge distance if I don't use the jp.  I would say their survivability is more with JPs, than on foot, in a rhino or a DP.  They still can't assault the turn they disembark.  So, there is still a round of shooting hitting them.  JP DC, you can at least hide them, get cover saves etc.

 

Yes, on foot their not bad, but I play drop pod assault, and those furiosos give my jumpy DC more than a fighting chance.  If I'm a blood crazy marine, why not give them a 12" move so I can chase down my fleeing enemies and get into assault as soon as possible?  The sooner I'm in combat the less I'm getting shot at.  Cheaper jump packs would be nice,  

 

I don't understand the variation in points cost for the same piece of wargear for different characters.  Consistency would be nice.  Just because you're a Libby or a chaplain, doesn't mean the points should be different for the same piece of war gear.

[Rafen IX]

Death company have some awesome versatility. Footslogging they are cheap(er) can be tooled up and generate lots of threat. Stormraven with DC and maybe a DC dred inside...expensive and terrifying ;)

 

I quite like them as they are personally but oh boy would I kill for a 5pt jump pack :D

 

I'm really looking forward to

1) Warlord traits

2) Relics (oh please Spear of Telesto)

3) Possible new psychic powers....stackable cover save on shield of sanguinius springs to mind.

R

[Xenith]

I don't like 10 man Sanguinary Guard.  

 

Especially with their Banner, there is too much room for synergy with Librarians, HQ, and SPs.  This will result in the unit being either beardy cheesy or overpriced, with not much room in between.  I honestly see a 10 man squad as a death sentence for the SG.

 

The same could be said for DeathWing terminator squads, who recent went from only 5, to 5-10.

[Blindhamster]

I think 5 man units of SG makes sense, fluff says there are 29 of them plus the Captain of the Sanguinary guard, if we could have 10 man squads and they could be troops, you'd get some players fielding more than are technically available.

 

it'd be nice to have the option to upgrade one to be a special character (unique squad upgrade, 1 per  army, ala telion etc).

[Theduke08]

I think they could drop the Sanguinor and put in master of the sanguinary guard and id be happy!