++ The Murderers' Call - A Night Lords Community ++

[Lord Abaia]

If they go that far, they had might as well go all the way and bring him back as a daemon primarch of Malal/Malice for his extreme acts of self-destructive rebellion, and his disdain for Chaos.

 

That way he can despise his daemonic patron as much as he hates his legion, but still not as much as he hates the IoM and the other forces of Chaos.

 

Hey GSC got a codex, and SoB are getting (at least some) plastic models. I rate a return of Malice/Malal as slightly higher than a return of Squats.

[Kol Saresk]

Apparently in the new legion supplement the blacked out feed stands and it's still only Curze and M'shen in the room.

 

Also in talon of horus fabius has cloned them all anyway regardless of what anyone else wanted.

 

I know the evidence isn't there yet, but there's still room for things to take place. literally just springboarding off the conversation which traitor primarch comes next.

 

"It could even be Curze"

"But he's dead"

"Is he though" etc etc

Actually, if we take it that far, and consider how the Horus clone behaved and even how powerful it was(which supports the whole concept of some sort of psychic resonance between the original primarch dna and any of its derivatives, from the geneseed to even clones created from it[also shown by the Ferrus clone, and how the Fulgrim clone shown in ToH was already begin to show mutations making it similar in appearance to Fulgrim's daemonic form]), it is entirely possible that the original died, and then Fabius created a clone who know believes it is the original and has spent the last ten thousand years basically under the direct influence of Chaos. Sort of like a strange Spider-Carnage analogy.

If they go that far, they had might as well go all the way and bring him back as a daemon primarch of Malal/Malice for his extreme acts of self-destructive rebellion, and his disdain for Chaos.

 

That way he can despise his daemonic patron as much as he hates his legion, but still not as much as he hates the IoM and the other forces of Chaos.

 

Hey GSC got a codex, and SoB are getting (at least some) plastic models. I rate a return of Malice/Malal as slightly higher than a return of Squats.

Eh, technically he was returned as Malice already in a short story featuring the Sons of Malice(can't recall the title at the moment). The only reason he woudln't, and most likely won't, return in his full glory is because the original writers still hold all the copyrights and trademarks and GW is too scared to ask for them.

[Noctem Cultor]

Apparently in the new legion supplement the blacked out feed stands and it's still only Curze and M'shen in the room.

Also in talon of horus fabius has cloned them all anyway regardless of what anyone else wanted.

I know the evidence isn't there yet, but there's still room for things to take place. literally just springboarding off the conversation which traitor primarch comes next.

"It could even be Curze"

"But he's dead"

"Is he though" etc etc

Interesting maybe they want to keep the option open and have tweeked it again. Out of curiosity on the whole swicharo of Night Haunter where does Talon of Horus fit time line wise with Curzes fall into his more over the top hissy fits?

 

 

On another subject, does anyone recommend any units that work well for Zone Mortalis with the new TL book in mind? Although the pull of a mostly Raptor force does appeal to me it's probably not going to help in ZM games. So please recommend units to help me finalise my revived Warband of Evicerated Truth (mostly to be broken down for Kill team/Zone Mortalis but with the option to be a solid list together.)

 

Thanks

-Noctem

[Kol Saresk]

Not too sure. Timelines in the Eye are weird. On the one hand, it takes place just after Skalathrax and finishes at the end of the Legion Wars when Abaddon breaks the Emperor's Children power base and main slave holdings. Where that fits into reality is somewhat questionable, but it eventually leads into the First Black Crusade.

 

Curze's assassination happens sometime after the Heresy, but before the one hundred years later when the Night Lords are driven from Tsalgualsa.

 

How all the events tie together is questionable.

 

I'd argue that Curze's "death" happens well before the events of Talon of Horus.

[Scribe]

Apparently in the new legion supplement the blacked out feed stands and it's still only Curze and M'shen in the room.

 

Also in talon of horus fabius has cloned them all anyway regardless of what anyone else wanted.

 

I know the evidence isn't there yet, but there's still room for things to take place. literally just springboarding off the conversation which traitor primarch comes next.

 

"It could even be Curze"

"But he's dead"

"Is he though" etc etc

 

I think not. The entire arc of Curze would be ruined at that point and it would also damage one of the best BL Series. I guess I wouldnt put it past GW, but...I hope not.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Apparently in the new legion supplement the blacked out feed stands and it's still only Curze and M'shen in the room.

 

Also in talon of horus fabius has cloned them all anyway regardless of what anyone else wanted.

 

I know the evidence isn't there yet, but there's still room for things to take place. literally just springboarding off the conversation which traitor primarch comes next.

 

"It could even be Curze"

"But he's dead"

"Is he though" etc etc

I think not. The entire arc of Curze would be ruined at that point and it would also damage one of the best BL Series. I guess I wouldnt put it past GW, but...I hope not.

There's a series about Curze?

[Lord Asvaldir]

Not an entire series, but he's popped up a fair amount in horus heresy novels. There's also one or two short stories exclusively about him, though I forget the names of those books.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, but it isn't enough to make a series. Even then, the end is a foregone conclusion. All him pulling a switch or having a clone successor would do is add to that end, not take away from it.

 

Let's face it, you can't really take away from crazy guy committing suicide because of his dementia.

[Scribe]

The whole of ADB's series stands on Curze letting himself be punished. Maybe I'm the one on crazy pills here, but letting himself be killed is kind of important to me. :p

[Kol Saresk]

The whole of ADB's series stands on Curze letting himself be punished. Maybe I'm the one on crazy pills here, but letting himself be killed is kind of important to me.

The whole of ADB's series stands on the belief of First Claw(specifically Talos) that Curze let himself be punished. Lord of the Night stands on Zso Sahaal's belief that Curze died to vindicate himself being challenged by Krieg Acerbus' belief that Curze allowed himself to be killed so the Night Lords would follow him into the damnation of Chaos. A D-B has said on multiple occasions that he operates on the Qui-Gon Jinn quote of "Your perception is your reality" and he tries to bring that into reality within the Warhammer 40,000 Background.

 

As far as whether or not some sort of Curze resurrection would lessen that impact, I would highly argue that it depends on how it is handled. It would have to be one of those things that I see it before I have an opinion on it because it could just very well murder my enthusiasm for 40K.

 

I can very easily see it turning into a Thrawn type thing where Thrawn's death just pretty much cemented the Empire's destruction in the EU, but when an imposter came back, just the idea of Thrawn completely and totally revitalized into the Imperial remnants that, for a short while, a true resurgence of the Empire was actually possible.

 

And with the Prophet Decimus trying to create a cohesion within the Night Lords Legion, a resurrected Curze(whether it be a clone imposter or an insane originalwho faked his own death) could provide a heavy enough counterpoint to keep the Night Lords from becoming a wholly united force. Because let's face, them dudes be bombat crazy and the only thing keeping them from wrecking everybody else is that they can't even agree on what color the sky is on the same planet, in the same region, at the same time of day(if there is a day).

 

That's just my opinion though.

[Scribe]

Agree to disagree I guess. I see him giving himself up as central to the story of the Night Lords, and its part I like. Much like I was arguing against a bunch of Loyalists coming back (Dorn, Sangy) I see it as a negative concept for Curze to return.

[Noctem Cultor]

On the subject of Decimus... with the Fall of Cadia kick-starting us moving forward in 40k lore, anyone else hoping we will see some inclusion of the Prophets correction at the end of the Soul Hunter series?

 

I'd like to see us get a mention for confirmation we are doing our own thing like Raven Guard did against Tau etc just to kinda secure the current fluff and if I'm honest a Special character exclusive in the campaign even without a model would be awesome. (Merry Christmas all)

-Noctem

[Kol Saresk]

A mention for correction?

[Noctem Cultor]

A mention for correction?

Ahh good spot Kol, using my tablet and it likes to change words on me.

Confirmation was the word, it would just be nice for us to be doing g our own thing rather than just what Abaddon wants us to do.

-Noctem

[helterskelter]

I'd imagine it wouldn't be a stretch to have a small box describing an action they've been seen at in fall of cadia

[Kol Saresk]

Ah, okay. Apologies, I just finished my work shift and my day that started 10pm Friday night still isn't quite over so it just threw me off.

 

Well, technically speaking, BL's flufff is literally just as canon as GW's, so on the one hand, he already has been confirmed and so has his little pow-wow with the rest of the Eigth Legion.

 

But I understand what you're saying; the more sources, the merrier.

 

And it is on that point that I honestly don't have a clue what GW would plan. I've been out of touch with the background for the past year so I have no way which the tide is flowing. However, it wouldn't surprise if we ended up with getting a view of what the VIII are doing, with no context as to why they are doing it.

 

For example, IIRC Decimus wanted the Night Lords to attack an Eldar Craftworld. So we might see something where the Night Lords do attack the Craftworld, but no mention of the Prophet. Or we might even get a misplaced context where an Imperial observer who is acting as the viewpoint of the narrative, says it is attributable to a different reason entirely, speculating that it was a strategy by Abaddon to try and keep the Eldar from interfering when really the Prophet was preemptively keeping the Eldar from gutting what remains of the VIIIth Legion and condemning it to a certain death.

[Noctem Cultor]

I'd imagine it wouldn't be a stretch to have a small box describing an action they've been seen at in fall of cadia

That's all I ask. Do we think that we have messed up the Ulthwé as the Prophet has forseen before the Fall of Cadians campaign or has the timeline fallen back?

 

-Noctem

[helterskelter]

Given how long ago the books were complete vs fall of cadia, a small change of plan might occur given the eldar didn't wake their God, so the vision he had may alter.

Not all Curzes prophecies came to pass, nor did Talos interpret what he saw with 100% accuracy

[Lord Abaia]

Its been a little while since I finished Void Stalker, but I think that the prophesy being misinterpreted was the crux of the plot. Except that it was an Eldar prophesy.

 

Ulthwé farseers misinterpreted it. They saw that the prophet of the VIIIth legion would bleed them dry as Cadia fell, so try went after Talos and his warband to stop that from happening. And of course the irony was Talos did not accept the title of the prophet and he didn't care about fighting Ulthwé whatsoever. Ulthwé inadvertently created Decimus and a desire for revenge against their craftworld by killing Talos and his brothers.

 

I thought that Decimus' motivation for going after Ulthwé was out of revenge rather than purely fulfilling a prophesy. Which makes it all the more beautiful that the meddlesome Eldar brought their own destruction about by messing with their own self-fulfilling prophesy. So I can't imagine there being an in universe reason for the VIIIth to not go hard on Ulthwé during the 13th Black Crusade. I can, however, imagine lots of situations in the real world for the writers to leave any mention of it out.

[Noctem Cultor]

True it's not a forgone conclusion as that makes him stupid powerful if he hits the nail on the head each time. Plus Abaddon would try to nick our prophet V.2 as we all know how grabby he is.

 

Thanks MP you confirm that it's happening at the same time. As Cadia hasn't fallen the campaign plays that out, so we should be attacking them now. Does fill in what the Ulthwé were doing in the Crusade a bit better than previous fluff.

 

If they did a Eldrad vs Decimus campaign like the War Zone Damocles, Burning Dawn and Shadow Force Solaq sets would be great Eldrad with a Seer council mini set and Decimus with his warband in another (I figure we are due Legion plastic upgrade kits build a exclusive lord or use parts from that with rules).

 

-Noctem

[Augustus b'Raass]

Apologies, I haven't really read the fluff discussion above. I'm just commenting on the list posted by Guiltysparc:

 

Hidden Content

What do you guys think about this list idea?  

 

Core

Raptor Talon

• Raptor Lord - Claws of the black hunt, sigil of corruption
• 5x Raptors - 2x Meltagun, Lightning Claw/Melta Bombs on Sargent
• 5x Raptors - 2x Meltagun, Lightning Claw/Melta Bombs on Sargent
• 5x Raptors - 2x Meltagun, Lightning Claw/Melta Bombs on Sargent

Command

Daemon Prince  

• Daemon of Tzeentch
• Stormbolt Plate
• ML 3 Psycher
• Wings
• CCW
• Warlord

Auxiliary

Helforged Warpack

• Warpsmith
• 1x Forgefiend with 3 Plasma Cannons 
• 2x Maulerfiends with lashers

Spawn 

• 3x Spawn

Its 1500pts on the dot, so you could throw in a 2 drake terror pack to get to the 1850 standard.  I'm liking the idea of screening the raptors with spawn and maulerfiends and the DP's access to a near constanst 2+ rerollable save.  With his powers you could try to surf the maulerfiends up the board on some terrain for some immediate pressure.

Brushing aside the horrible way you spelled sergeant (), that's a pretty cool list, one that I´ve been thinking of as well. A couple comments/questions to pinpoint the way you're going to play this list.

• What's your thinking behind the level three Psyker on the DP? With him being the only witch, there's not a lot of reliability (average of 6-7 warp dice for an average of three per power) synchronization with the rest of the army there. He has to have at least a couple Tzeentch powers, which in the best of times makes him a very expensive flying gun platform (bearing in mind most witch-fires powers still count as a shooting attack and thus suffer from the snap fire penalty which comes with jinking - which I'm guessing with stormbolt plate you're going to want to do - and in the worst (when you mix powers) a schizoid points drain. Better make use of that sweet WS and Initiative and kit him out for pure combat.
• I'm not sure about the the meltabomb/lightning claw combo on the raptors. Melta is for killing vehicles and MCs, and lighting claws are for MEQ killing. So what are they for? I really like the redundancy of three equal squads, but I'd take an extra raptor instead of the LC. 
• The Claws of the Black Hunt are super fluffy but are they really worth it on a T4 lord? They're not that good and bear in mind this guy gets instakilled with lowly S8 attacks. If your DP is the warlord anyway, why not kit the jump-lord out with the Burning Brand or some other harassment tool. With the BB, put him in a raptor squad with flamers instead of meltaguns and watch your enemies burn!
• Why the Plasmafiend? Blast weapons aren't really viable/reliable - especially with WS3. The AV12 is also a bit of a risk on such a high profile shooting threat. You could make it the alpha in the pack for a 4++ and have the Warpsmith heal him, but consider this: If you drop the Psykic levels from the DP, you can swap him for two extra maulerfiends instead - for a total of four (4!) Maulerfiends! Much more threatening and effective/disruptive, and you have a lot more redundancy. 
• Never, ever take lashers on a Maulerfiend. The magma cutters are better and cheaper.

I hope this helps! You certainly gave me something to consider in building my lists! SO thanks

[Noctem Cultor]

So just reading Blood Tithe and noticed that the Leader mentions having Arco-Lightning on his armour and also mentions one of the Terminators having lightning painted on his armour. So as there is a mix I was wondering if anyone had modelled the lighting on their armour rather than just painted it on?

 

I was thinking of bending fishing wire in shape then glueing it to the armour at the ends and then painting it to bring the Arco-Lightning to life.

 

-Noctem

[helterskelter]

I modelled lightning on my deredeo using plant roots.

[wannabejedi]

Hello fellow murderers!

I'm a long time lurker, but Traitor Legions got me thinking and what better place to start posting than the pits?

I started building my NL about 2 years ago, as a 30k-40k double army. And now that we have decent rules, I felt it's time to really dive into CSM.

Here are some old crappy pisc, that you might have seen before if you follow miniwargamer Kris' channel

So, uhm. Hi and enjoy

[Augustus b'Raass]

Very nice! I love that deep blue you did. Also the 2nd edition vehicles! :tu:

 

Is there a reason behind the mix of red and black in bolter casings and weapons and the blue on the predator lascannons?