++ The Murderers' Call - A Night Lords Community ++

[wannabejedi]

Thanks!

 

Yeah, I started with black casings, then tried red and liked that too, so now I just use whichever I feel like at the moment :P For the predator, I did't want to do the usual bare metal barrel look, so I used the main blue 

[Augustus b'Raass]

Alernating the colour of the gun casings is cool, but in my eyes doesn't contribute to a unified look of the force. Perhaps a black barrel for the lascannons? 

[Lord Abaia]

They're starting a Kill Team campaign at my local GW in a week so I'm taking the opportunity to slowly grow my Night Lords force with some new units. (As of now I only have one 10 man CSM squad that I lovingly painted for Kill Team last year.)

 

I know that the raptors as troops rule won't get much attention now that we have entered the age of formations but it does allow me to take a unit of raptors and a unit of bikes in a Kill Team list and that's pretty cool.

 

I'm trying to balance between building a good Kill Team, building units I can use in my future Warband formation, and as always rule of cool.

 

Right now I am considering building the raptors with 2 melta guns and a barebones champ. He'll likely have melta bombs in big 40k games. and I'm thinking of running my bikes with stock TL bolters and giving the champ a lightning claw, because it's cool.

 

The bike champ will be my leader picking FNP if I roll to choose a specialist trait, the raptor champ will be a combat specialist with killer instinct (always wound on 2+ vs non-vehicles), one melta gunner will be a guerilla specialist with infiltrate, and the other melta gunner will be a weapon specialist with eagle-eye (+50% weapon range).

 

I figure I can run the raptors in a regular 40k game as is and I can add another 3 bikers later, making 2 into special weapon platforms and converting the third into a lord.

 

One thing I've realized is that rerolls and buffs to wound are the way to go with NL as we already have good chances to hit (fear at -2 LD vs non-fearless/ non-marines and hatred vs all marines)

[ThatOneMarshal]

To build off what you are saying, the telepathy table is definetly meant for us, not only for fluff, but utility as well. So many leadership based powers in there, could be great with all the debuffs we get.

[Noctem Cultor]

Hail Brothers,

 

I have an airbrush question! Before the New Year happens I thought I'd learn a new trick and bought myself a starting airbrush. Using the only model around (Stormcast) while I await my new NL stock.

I used Kantor Blue Air over Black then testing thinned down whites and settling for a lighter blue spray under where lightning goes, I then messed up the eyes (know I know the size limit of my current nozzle). So then by hand went through the normal brass trim terror markings and the actual lighting streaks.

All great can't wait to get on with the force when it arrives! But then I figured I left out a step the blue wash... When in the process do you apply your wash before the glow where lightning goes or after?

 

So please help me with a step by step including a wash for your tried and proven Airbrushing for Midnight clad brothers! As you guys inspired me to make the jump to an airbrush.

 

Thanks in advance.

-Noctem

[Lord Abaia]

This isn't exactly what you are asking, but on some of my models I made my lightning trails too wide, so I went over them with a bit of Drakenhoff Nightshade to darken it a bit and then reapplied a thinner lighting bolt in the middle. It ended up as sort of a glow around the lightning.

[Prot]

So how are the new rules working out? Has anyone here got any games in with the new Detachment rules?

[Galron]

In response to the painted or arco lightning, I always viewed the lightning as painted on. The only reference I have ever seen about it not being part of the paint scheme was I think the 4th ed codex where I think they thought it would be cool for the kids to have lightning arcing in the ever so brief description of the legion. Other than that it was always simply painted on like their skull motifs on their helms.

[Noctem Cultor]

In response to the painted or arco lightning, I always viewed the lightning as painted on. The only reference I have ever seen about it not being part of the paint scheme was I think the 4th ed codex where I think they thought it would be cool for the kids to have lightning arcing in the ever so brief description of the legion. Other than that it was always simply painted on like their skull motifs on their helms.

 

An example of how fluff changes I guess. I think with my upcoming warband revival I will be keeping the painted on look for most units and have Arco Lightning for my Lords as I don't imagine a lot of armour with that tech will be to hand for most VIII Warbands. Also having a unit of FW Possessed to count as Raptors just because I like the models so I might try some Warp Lightning on them and just run with a sickly purple glow to contrast the white/blue on the other miniatures.

 

-Noctem

[Gree]

So how are the new rules working out? Has anyone here got any games in with the new Detachment rules?

 

I have not used the Murder Talon yet,but just the CAD so far. Here are my thoughts.

 

1. Stormbolt Prince of Tzeentch is really good. 2+ re-rollable is great, especially if you roll the right Biomancy powers. He really carries the army as a hard to kill and mobile beatstick. Probably the best HQ the Night Lords have. Slaughtered half an Ork army by himself with the right Biomancy powers while soaking up the shooting of the entire army.

 

He's not invincible though. For example in my last game a full squad of Ravenwing Black Knights with an attached Librarian got Perfect Timing and took him out.

 

2. Bikers over Raptors. Despite the bonuses that the Night Lords receive for Raptors, I do think they run Bikes better. Stealth stacks quite nicely with Jink and the Murder Talon bonuses.

 

That being said, Raptors are still decent with Objective Secured and free stealth. Other Legions really run Raptors better, especially in Legion formations like the Black Legion and Emperor's Children have.

 

2. Armywide Stealth is nice, but this army really falls apart against a foe with widespread access to Ignore Cover. Tau for example hard counter alot of these elements in the army and Hunter's Eye Centurions still destroy stuff.

 

I rarely get to use Fear and the bonuses the Night Lords have are mostly pointless in this regard. It's a nice bonus against Orks and Necrons on occasion, but Fear is just not a very good rule against most armies.

 

Overall it's a decent army, but lacks anything really good apart from the Stormbolt Prince. In my games I found if he goes down the rest of the army goes down too. Certain armies counter the Night Lords too well, leaving them to be just generic Chaos Marines.

[Lord Abaia]

Oh man. One of the guys in the Kill Team campaign I'm about to start is also running a "Night Lords" team. He's actually running KDK warp talons and painting them as NL. I don't care what happens in the campaign I have to defeat his pretenders.

 

I just checked the KDK codex and to my relief I see that they are not fearless like I had originally heard. So I should be able to kill 3 models and let the break test take care of his non-VotLW, thin blood impostors.

 

But if I get caught in CC that's it. If I hide in cover and receive the charge my raptors and bikes get to attack first (because no grenades) with 2 attacks and have a 1/6 shot (2/9 if I get fear off) of killing him before he swings, and then he gets 4 S5 hits with shred and ap3 to absolutely destroy my dude. If I charge him I die almost for sure but I have a 1/4 chance (1/3 if fear works) of killing him too. It looks like it's going to be a game of hide the melta guns and gang up on the stragglers.

 

The only other list I know of for sure is seven of the fearless, jump necrons with s5 and AP2 weapons. I hope my raptors and bikes can hang in with stealth and fear out the window. I was anticipating a much more shooty meta. Any of you Vets of the Long War have some ideas on tactics?

[Noctem Cultor]

Hail Brothers,

 

Just wondering on peoples view of some of the icons on the transfer sheet. Going by the icon explanation pdf.

 

We have the hand prints down as Mark Of Censure, are we to assume this is the same as painting your Gauntlet's red?

 

Nostraman Sigils (a Sigil for those that dont know are 'an inscribed or painted symbol considered to have magical power') do we know what any of the sigils actually mean, I guess they mean things like Hunt almost as a ritual to invoke a good old fashioned slaughter.

 

-Noctem

[Augustus b'Raass]

We have the hand prints down as Mark Of Censure, are we to assume this is the same as painting your Gauntlet's red?

Painting your gauntlet's.... what red?  think it means the same as painting the gauntlets themselves red. 

 

Nostraman Sigils (a Sigil for those that dont know are 'an inscribed or painted symbol considered to have magical power') do we know what any of the sigils actually mean, I guess they mean things like Hunt almost as a ritual to invoke a good old fashioned slaughter.

Thanks for the sigil explanation! But seriously, I think it can mean whatever you wish. They're pretty cool symbols, actually! If I wasn't completely burned out painting Night lords, I'd buy the crap out of that transfer sheet - although I still think you're paying 25% crap, as no-one will use those lighting strikes. If you're so much into Night Lords that you'll buy the 16GBP Transfer Sheet, you're going to have learned how to paint proper lightning anyway - and the quarter of the sheets dedicated to them is wasted.  

[Prot]

 

So how are the new rules working out? Has anyone here got any games in with the new Detachment rules?

 

I have not used the Murder Talon yet,but just the CAD so far. Here are my thoughts.

 

1. Stormbolt Prince of Tzeentch is really good. 2+ re-rollable is great, especially if you roll the right Biomancy powers. He really carries the army as a hard to kill and mobile beatstick. Probably the best HQ the Night Lords have. Slaughtered half an Ork army by himself with the right Biomancy powers while soaking up the shooting of the entire army.

 

He's not invincible though. For example in my last game a full squad of Ravenwing Black Knights with an attached Librarian got Perfect Timing and took him out.

 

2. Bikers over Raptors. Despite the bonuses that the Night Lords receive for Raptors, I do think they run Bikes better. Stealth stacks quite nicely with Jink and the Murder Talon bonuses.

 

That being said, Raptors are still decent with Objective Secured and free stealth. Other Legions really run Raptors better, especially in Legion formations like the Black Legion and Emperor's Children have.

 

2. Armywide Stealth is nice, but this army really falls apart against a foe with widespread access to Ignore Cover. Tau for example hard counter alot of these elements in the army and Hunter's Eye Centurions still destroy stuff.

 

I rarely get to use Fear and the bonuses the Night Lords have are mostly pointless in this regard. It's a nice bonus against Orks and Necrons on occasion, but Fear is just not a very good rule against most armies.

 

Overall it's a decent army, but lacks anything really good apart from the Stormbolt Prince. In my games I found if he goes down the rest of the army goes down too. Certain armies counter the Night Lords too well, leaving them to be just generic Chaos Marines.

 

 

I was feeling strongly it would be a heck of biker army, but largely dependent on artefacts, and Sorc bikers. 

 

That DP though is an auto include and like you say, if he ends up with Iron arm/FnP, or even a turn of luck against his magic bullet armies, I bet you will have him absorbing a ton of fire power. 

 

I still think of them as kind of an evil Raven Guard.  I'd love to see the claws in action on a biker lord. Also manipulating opponent's reserves is very cool. 

[Vel'Cona]

I have not used the Murder Talon yet,but just the CAD so far. Here are my thoughts.

 

1. Stormbolt Prince of Tzeentch is really good. 2+ re-rollable is great, especially if you roll the right Biomancy powers. He really carries the army as a hard to kill and mobile beatstick. Probably the best HQ the Night Lords have. Slaughtered half an Ork army by himself with the right Biomancy powers while soaking up the shooting of the entire army.

 

He's not invincible though. For example in my last game a full squad of Ravenwing Black Knights with an attached Librarian got Perfect Timing and took him out.

 

2. Bikers over Raptors. Despite the bonuses that the Night Lords receive for Raptors, I do think they run Bikes better. Stealth stacks quite nicely with Jink and the Murder Talon bonuses.

 

That being said, Raptors are still decent with Objective Secured and free stealth. Other Legions really run Raptors better, especially in Legion formations like the Black Legion and Emperor's Children have.

 

2. Armywide Stealth is nice, but this army really falls apart against a foe with widespread access to Ignore Cover. Tau for example hard counter alot of these elements in the army and Hunter's Eye Centurions still destroy stuff.

 

I rarely get to use Fear and the bonuses the Night Lords have are mostly pointless in this regard. It's a nice bonus against Orks and Necrons on occasion, but Fear is just not a very good rule against most armies.

 

Overall it's a decent army, but lacks anything really good apart from the Stormbolt Prince. In my games I found if he goes down the rest of the army goes down too. Certain armies counter the Night Lords too well, leaving them to be just generic Chaos Marines.

 

 

Sorry to hear all of this.  I was really excited about NLs getting rules again after several editions of neglect, but the fact that they run sub-par Raptors is just very sad to me.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

So how are the new rules working out? Has anyone here got any games in with the new Detachment rules?

 

I have not used the Murder Talon yet,but just the CAD so far. Here are my thoughts.

 

1. Stormbolt Prince of Tzeentch is really good. 2+ re-rollable is great, especially if you roll the right Biomancy powers. He really carries the army as a hard to kill and mobile beatstick. Probably the best HQ the Night Lords have. Slaughtered half an Ork army by himself with the right Biomancy powers while soaking up the shooting of the entire army.

 

He's not invincible though. For example in my last game a full squad of Ravenwing Black Knights with an attached Librarian got Perfect Timing and took him out.

 

2. Bikers over Raptors. Despite the bonuses that the Night Lords receive for Raptors, I do think they run Bikes better. Stealth stacks quite nicely with Jink and the Murder Talon bonuses.

 

That being said, Raptors are still decent with Objective Secured and free stealth. Other Legions really run Raptors better, especially in Legion formations like the Black Legion and Emperor's Children have.

 

2. Armywide Stealth is nice, but this army really falls apart against a foe with widespread access to Ignore Cover. Tau for example hard counter alot of these elements in the army and Hunter's Eye Centurions still destroy stuff.

 

I rarely get to use Fear and the bonuses the Night Lords have are mostly pointless in this regard. It's a nice bonus against Orks and Necrons on occasion, but Fear is just not a very good rule against most armies.

 

Overall it's a decent army, but lacks anything really good apart from the Stormbolt Prince. In my games I found if he goes down the rest of the army goes down too. Certain armies counter the Night Lords too well, leaving them to be just generic Chaos Marines.

 

 

I was feeling strongly it would be a heck of biker army, but largely dependent on artefacts, and Sorc bikers. 

 

That DP though is an auto include and like you say, if he ends up with Iron arm/FnP, or even a turn of luck against his magic bullet armies, I bet you will have him absorbing a ton of fire power. 

 

I still think of them as kind of an evil Raven Guard.  I'd love to see the claws in action on a biker lord. Also manipulating opponent's reserves is very cool. 

 

As a note, you might want to think about Ectomancy on that DP.  Empyric Shield would give him a 3++, rerolling 1's due to Daemon of Tzeentch. Infernal Claws is also a nice CC power for a Monstrous Creature and being able to swoop over vehicles and blow them up with Daemonshriek is nice. Warpshock would also make good anti-air against lightweight flyers or to force grounding tests on other FMC's. The utility of Soulswitch and Ghost Storm is obvious.

 

Also, yeah, Telepathy Bike Sorcerers will wreck Tau. Super high chance of getting Invisibility and therefore reducing markerlight effectiveness. Remember that any lights that land will help them burn through Invisibility, but it lessens the impact. Psychic shriek destroys Riptides, especially when paired with Vox Daemonicus and some Helldrakes. Terrify and Dominate are awesome and Mental Fortitude can help your own guys hold in key fights.

 

It's not going to be an auto win, but it will keep you in the game.

 

My own list is looking something like this (No DP, but I do understand how cool that is).

 

Raptor Talon

 

Lord w/Fist, Claw, Stormbolt Plate (for the 2+ save, mostly), Free Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Sigil-155pts

12 Raptors, incl Champ w/Power Maul and Meltabombs, 2 Flamers-244pts

10 Raptors, incl Champ w/Power Maul and Meltabombs, 2 Meltaguns-220pts

10 Raptors, incl Champ w/Power Maul and Meltabombs, 2 Meltaguns-220pts

 

Heldrake Terror Pack

3 x Heldrake (2 Baleflamer, 1 Hades)-510pts

 

Lord of Legion x2

Chaos Sorcerer w/Bike, Vox Daemonicus, ML3, Spell Familiar, Force Sword (I like the model I have), Sigil, Meltabombs-205pts

Chaos Sorcerer w/Bike, ML3, Spell Familiar, Force Axe, Sigil, Meltabombs-175pts

 

Spawn Aux

Chaos Spawn x 4-Unmarked-120pts

 

Grand Total-1849pts

 

Sorcerers go with Spawn and start with big Raptor unit/Lord on table. Advance at high speed under psychic cover. Other Raptors and Drakes come in from reserves and hit where needed to support or distract. Strike weak points and use Hades Pinning/Psychic Powers (Dominate, Hallucination, etc.) and initial charge from Spawn to reduce overwatch threat (possibly switching Sorcerers to Raptor Squad before charging).

 

Swap Telepathy on at least 1 Sorcerer for Heretech if facing heavy armor. I understand that it would be more optimal if I switched the positions of the Vox and the Stormbolt Plate, but a Fist/Claw Lord with a 2+ is a huge threat and my Sorcerer has a winged helm, while my lord doesn't, and the Vox is specifically a "bat hat."

 

We'll see if it works.

[Aeternus]

Oh man. One of the guys in the Kill Team campaign I'm about to start is also running a "Night Lords" team. He's actually running KDK warp talons and painting them as NL. I don't care what happens in the campaign I have to defeat his pretenders.

 

I just checked the KDK codex and to my relief I see that they are not fearless like I had originally heard. So I should be able to kill 3 models and let the break test take care of his non-VotLW, thin blood impostors.

Just to check, are you sure the KDK codex doesn't give them 'daemon of khorne' therefore as deamon of X giving them fear and (I think) fearless? Might be wrong on my part

[Gree]

 

I have not used the Murder Talon yet,but just the CAD so far. Here are my thoughts.

 

1. Stormbolt Prince of Tzeentch is really good. 2+ re-rollable is great, especially if you roll the right Biomancy powers. He really carries the army as a hard to kill and mobile beatstick. Probably the best HQ the Night Lords have. Slaughtered half an Ork army by himself with the right Biomancy powers while soaking up the shooting of the entire army.

 

He's not invincible though. For example in my last game a full squad of Ravenwing Black Knights with an attached Librarian got Perfect Timing and took him out.

 

2. Bikers over Raptors. Despite the bonuses that the Night Lords receive for Raptors, I do think they run Bikes better. Stealth stacks quite nicely with Jink and the Murder Talon bonuses.

 

That being said, Raptors are still decent with Objective Secured and free stealth. Other Legions really run Raptors better, especially in Legion formations like the Black Legion and Emperor's Children have.

 

2. Armywide Stealth is nice, but this army really falls apart against a foe with widespread access to Ignore Cover. Tau for example hard counter alot of these elements in the army and Hunter's Eye Centurions still destroy stuff.

 

I rarely get to use Fear and the bonuses the Night Lords have are mostly pointless in this regard. It's a nice bonus against Orks and Necrons on occasion, but Fear is just not a very good rule against most armies.

 

Overall it's a decent army, but lacks anything really good apart from the Stormbolt Prince. In my games I found if he goes down the rest of the army goes down too. Certain armies counter the Night Lords too well, leaving them to be just generic Chaos Marines.

 

 

Sorry to hear all of this.  I was really excited about NLs getting rules again after several editions of neglect, but the fact that they run sub-par Raptors is just very sad to me.

 

 

Less sub-par and more that other Legions are simply better than average. Death Guard and Emperor's Children just have great base bonuses and Black Legion run a Raptor Talon better due to their Turn One Reserves Detachments rules

 

I don't think Night Lords Raptors are bad per se. Stealth and Objective Secured is pretty good on them. I use one as my second Troops choice in a CAD in order to grab objectives late game. Night Lords Raptors are no Eldar Scatterbikes, but they're pretty good all thing considered.

[Brother Aiwass]

Besides DP and the Murder Talon it looks like with 2 CAD NL can do it.

 

CAD 1

 

Lord on bike, axe, MB, stormplate, sigil

Sorc on bike, fam, vox, sigil, ML 3 (tele)

 

Raptor unit (6) PW, 2 MG

Raptor unit (6) PW, 2 MG

 

Biker unit (4) PW, 2 MG

Biker unit (4) PW, 2 MG

Biker unit (4) PW, 2 MG

 

CAD 2

 

Sorc on bike, fam, aura, ML 3 (tele)

Sorc on bike, fam, aura, ML 3 (ecto)

 

Raptor unit (6) PW, 2 MG

Raptor unit (6) PW, 2 MG

 

Biker unit (4) PW, 2 MG

Biker unit (4) PW, 2 MG

Biker unit (4) PW, 2 MG

 

1998 if I did well. Lot's of high cover saves, mobility, T5 and an average of 12 WC per turn. Sure is not going to win tournaments but I think that can be a viable list. Not sure if fluffy tho.

 

On other subject, I would like to know what do you think about including the Cypher formation (Cypher + 1 unit of plasmachosen). I know it's expensive, but it may be "fluffy" (I think): infiltrating shrouded chosen back the enemy lines? Have you tried? It's worth it?

[Augustus b'Raass]

That's actually a very fluffy list, and a moderately string ine too. The only real weakess is AA, but it compensates quite nicely with string ObSec, anti armour and anti infantry. I'd both love to play with and against it! Nice. :tu:

[Brother Aiwass]

Thanks, was just an improvised list to be honest. I guess we always can drop a couple of bike squads and a few bodies to fit in a minimum Terror Pack?

[Augustus b'Raass]

ALways! ;)

I'd even consider dropping the PW spam and swapping the lord for a DP.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

That's actually a very fluffy list, and a moderately string ine too. The only real weakess is AA, but it compensates quite nicely with string ObSec, anti armour and anti infantry. I'd both love to play with and against it! Nice. :tu:

AA can be had with Ectomancy, which has a Haywire Nova in it. Just need to throw enough ML at that Discipline when generating powers. Giving that proposed flying DP Heretech would work too. If you go with a Heldrake Terror pack, include at least one Hades for both emergency AA and its Pinning USR, which goes great with the Vox and Terror Pack debuffs.

[Brother Aiwass]

I don't like DP for my NL because too much chaos. I prefer the common boltermen  do the job (yes, I know Tz DP is really good, and even a Nurgle one with the Talons can be good).  Have you tried the hades heldrake? Because with an average of 2 hits doesn't look very good.

[Augustus b'Raass]

I prefer the common boltermen  do the job

Says the guy with not a single bolter marine in a 2000 points list.    

 

Just kidding. I get what you mean, and even without the DP, I really think your list is both fluffy, fun to play with, and moderately powerful. Build it!