++ The Murderers' Call - A Night Lords Community ++

[Kol Saresk]

I had no idea about the distinction between the palatine and the ´stylized´ aquila. You learn something every day Although to be honest (and I'm sure it is me) I don't see the difference. Can you elaborate on what the difference is (to enlighten us lore-dummies), Kol Saresk?

 

Doesn't Talos have a big defiled aquila accross his chest?

Yeah but that is in the 40K setting. Talos stole it from an adeptus astartes champion and defiled it, in the 200 years that he's experienced since Kurze's death.

Physically, all I can tell is the little orb thingy that comes in the center of what the EC models wear on their chest. The "standard" aquila looks like the standard "wings and lightning bolts" you see on the rest of the Legion non-specific hq models.

 

Lorewise, I've seen posts where people compare it to the aquilas of the Roman Legions. I'm not knowledgeable on the history subject to speak on it properly, but from what I gather, is that each Legion had its own stylization of the Roman Aquila. And as such, the Imperial Aquila follows suit. That's why on the Raven Guard its wings with a raven skull, or wings with a blackened fist for the Imperial Fists and such.

 

So, the Palatine Aquila is supposed to be representative of the "Emperor's Own" as Forgeworld has described, in that only the Emperor and his Custodes wore it as their "Legionary Aquila". So when the Emperor's Children came and impressed the Emperor so much that he let them wear it, it was a huge deal.

 

To me, it was something Forgeworld might have been better off not doing because it just seems like a minor distinction, especially since so many of the Legions just wear their own iconography. But alas, I am not one of the Powers That Be so c'est la vie.

 

I hope that helps explain that the difference is only the background, but Forgeworld is adamant on its existence. :P

[Nemisor]

anyone know of any good Night Lords legion symbol free hand tutorials? im starting a NL force but i dont like the GW transfers and so far i am the suck at freehanding skulls. 

[NeopoleonOz]

Is this the kind of thing you're looking for?

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/raptor.jpg

 

If so, I'll put a tutorial together next time I do a set.

[Nemisor]

Yeah something like that would be good

[SyNidus]

Hit another hitch on my project. I've decided to start my arm with a raptor talon, however i'd really like to be using the Forgeworld Kits because i'd like something that looks good and can be used for both 30k & 40k...Only problem is that cost is a factor right now.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions for how i might be able to collect those for cheaper or if not, then perhaps a way in which i can integrate plastic/metal raptor kits into my army?

Would it look weird if i strapped the Plastic chaos raptor jump packs onto the backs of Mk IV tacticals?

[Noctem Cultor]

I do I do!

Actually doing the same thing currently. Now the current 1st models have a little Chaos armour rather than traditional armour on them but the first two show off cheeper MKIV Void Hardended Assault Armour and (mixed with chaos bits) MKIV Night Raptor bits without the additional Night Lord bits. Ignore the 3rd ed Raptor of course.

Im still at W.I.P but the middle Raptors clawI have been filing down the jump packs and legs for other members of that Raptor claw.

I used the MKIV maximus armour Plastic Box with the current Raptor Box and Sanguinary Guard Jump Packs, if you want a mix the plastic iron armour would work great too with filled down Raptor jump packs.

I recommend following these tutorials I have even just by a bit and im happy with the results. Hope that helps.

-Noctem

[SyNidus]

I do I do!

Actually doing the same thing currently. Now the current 1st models have a little Chaos armour rather than traditional armour on them but the first two show off cheeper MKIV Void Hardended Assault Armour and (mixed with chaos bits) MKIV Night Raptor bits without the additional Night Lord bits. Ignore the 3rd ed Raptor of course.

Im still at W.I.P but the middle Raptors clawI have been filing down the jump packs and legs for other members of that Raptor claw.

I used the MKIV maximus armour Plastic Box with the current Raptor Box and Sanguinary Guard Jump Packs, if you want a mix the plastic iron armour would work great too with filled down Raptor jump packs.

I recommend following these tutorials I have even just by a bit and im happy with the results. Hope that helps.

-Noctem

Those look pretty good. And thanks for the link! I've got a box of B@C, hence tons of Mk IV tactical marines. The problem with that of course is that compared to the flighty leg stances of the raptors, they'd look rather static. What do you think?

So i'm starting my Night Lords with strategic purchases. However, i've got 3 lists that i've broke it down to, and i'd like your help in deciding which to go for first.

List 1:

Warband

Lord - Bike, Fist/LC, Sigil, Stormbolt Plate - 175

Sorc - ML3 - Force Axe, Bike, Vox - 165

CSM Squad - 5 man - Meltagun, Champ w Combi-melta - Rhino - 130

CSM Squad - 5 man - Meltagun, Champ w Combi-melta - Rhino - 130

Chosen - 5 man - 4 Meltaguns - Rhino - 165

Biker - 5 man - 2 Meltaguns, Champ w PowerAxe - 145

Biker - 5 man - 2 Meltaguns, Champ w PowerAxe - 145

Havocs - 5 man - 4 Meltaguns - Rhino - 150

Terror Pack - 510

Heldrake - Baleflamer - 170

Heldrake - Baleflamer - 170

Heldrake - Baleflamer - 170

Lords of the Legion

Sorc - ML3 - Force Axe, Bike - 135

Total: 1850

Model Count: 40

This is a more classical approach to lists with the Rhino rush/melta spam and bikers taking advantage of the Night Lords traits. On the face of it, it looks (at least to me) to be fairly solid with some strength in the form of all those rhinos and meltas backed up by Bikers which are tough to shoot out.

On the other hand, this list seems almost at odds with the current meta of daemon prince, wraith knight, riptide/stormsurge spam.

Which brings me to my second list...

List 2

Murder Talon

Raptor Talon - 515

Lord - JP, Murder Sword, Sigil of Corruption - 125

Raptor Squad - 5 man - 2 meltaguns, Champ w PAxe

Raptor Squad - 5 man - 2 meltaguns, Champ w PAxe

Raptor Squad - 5 man - 2 meltaguns, Champ w PAxe

Lords of the Legion

Sorceror - ML3 - Bike, Force Axe, Spell Familiar, Vox Daemonicus - 175

Lords of the Legion

Sorceror - ML3 - Bike, Force Axe, Spell Familiar - 145

Heldrake Terror Pack - 510

Heldrake - Baleflamer

Heldrake - Baleflamer

Heldrake - Baleflamer

Chaos Spawn

Chaos Spawn Unit - 3 man - 90

Renegade Knight

Renegade Knight - Avenger Cannon, Reaper Chainsword, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rockets - 415

Total: 1850

Model Count: 25

This list is a little more contemporary, bringing in multiple powerful units backed by a relatively thin group of raptors whose main objective is objective grabbing and targets of opportunity with their meltaguns.

What do you guys reckon?

There is also a third more trippy option...

List 3

Murder Talon

Raptor Talon - 520

Lord - JP, Lightning Claw/PFist, Sigil of Corruption - 130

Raptor Squad - 5 man - 2 meltaguns, Champ w PAxe

Raptor Squad - 5 man - 2 meltaguns, Champ w PAxe

Raptor Squad - 5 man - 2 meltaguns, Champ w PAxe

Lords of the Legion

Daemon Prince - ML3 - DoTzeentch, Stormbolt Plate, Wings, Spell Familiar - 310

Heldrake Terror Pack - 510

Heldrake - Baleflamer

Heldrake - Baleflamer

Heldrake - Baleflamer

Chaos Spawn - 1 model - 30

Chaos Spawn - 1 model - 30

Chaos Spawn - 1 model - 30

Renegade Knight

Renegade Knight - Avenger Cannon, Reaper Chainsword, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rockets - 415

Total: 1845

Model Count: 24

Here we have a slightly different animal, the focus being the Daemon Prince, Renegade Knight and Heldrakes. Everything else is either to mop up or capture objectives.

Long post, i know, but i'd be most grateful for all the help. Thank you very much in advance!

[Vinc]

My night raptors kitbash. 70% done. Got my FW decals so I'm suspending all my newer projects and going rampant on the old models to make them more flashy :D

[jumai]

 

I had no idea about the distinction between the palatine and the ´stylized´ aquila. You learn something every day :) Although to be honest (and I'm sure it is me) I don't see the difference. Can you elaborate on what the difference is (to enlighten us lore-dummies), Kol Saresk? :)

 

 

Doesn't Talos have a big defiled aquila accross his chest?

 

Yeah but that is in the 40K setting. Talos stole it from an adeptus astartes champion and defiled it, in the 200 years that he's experienced since Kurze's death.

Physically, all I can tell is the little orb thingy that comes in the center of what the EC models wear on their chest. The "standard" aquila looks like the standard "wings and lightning bolts" you see on the rest of the Legion non-specific hq models.

Lorewise, I've seen posts where people compare it to the aquilas of the Roman Legions. I'm not knowledgeable on the history subject to speak on it properly, but from what I gather, is that each Legion had its own stylization of the Roman Aquila. And as such, the Imperial Aquila follows suit. That's why on the Raven Guard its wings with a raven skull, or wings with a blackened fist for the Imperial Fists and such.

So, the Palatine Aquila is supposed to be representative of the "Emperor's Own" as Forgeworld has described, in that only the Emperor and his Custodes wore it as their "Legionary Aquila". So when the Emperor's Children came and impressed the Emperor so much that he let them wear it, it was a huge deal.

To me, it was something Forgeworld might have been better off not doing because it just seems like a minor distinction, especially since so many of the Legions just wear their own iconography. But alas, I am not one of the Powers That Be so c'est la vie.

I hope that helps explain that the difference is only the background, but Forgeworld is adamant on its existence. :P

This is all new to me... do *all* examples of the palatine aquilla have the orb, or is that a feature of the particular model's armour? In those example pictures at least the stylized one looks distinctly more simplified and restrained in design to me... there's no curves, it's outline-only, the individual elements are mostly simple polygons, etc. Whereas the palatine has textured areas, small details, soft edges... if you saw one of the wing feathers out of context it would be clearly a feather instead of a long pentagon, stuff like that.

[Kol Saresk]

On a quick run through FW's catalogue, the other plain Aquila is seen on the Mk IV Command set.

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99550101255_MkIVCommandCharacters04.jpg

 

And I think that's supposed to be the difference. In the pictures I showed previously, the Tartoras Terminator was the EC Phoenix Terminator, while the other picture was from the Legion Praetor set.

 

The regular aquila is the aquila we all know from Warhammer 40K.

 

The palatine aquila is the Emperor's personal insignia(much like how Legion commanders have their own twist on the Legion icon) and as a result, he has the aquila, but it's more highly decorated when compared to the standard, utilitarian aquila. If it's for lightning bolts being synonymous with anyone who served in the Unification Wars, I imagine we would see those worked into it somehow.

 

Note: I didn't show it because it was colored in Emperor's Children colors and I didn't want to add to the confusion, but there is a pair of models sold as the "Legion Champion and Signal Command set", which has a highly decorated champion who has the heads of the aquila worked into his shoulderpads. So it could be that level of detail is simply synonymous with personal standing, but the two rules of thumb I'd personally use are EC models have the palatine aquila and it's usually very flashy looking.

[Noctem Cultor]

Just read Massacre NL short story and Talos has his Aquila during the Istvan Massacre event. So makes sense few would have this in our legion unless part of a command squad if even then.

 

Anyways onto my question! Oh lore master Lol (or anyone else that might know) is there a reason the FW 30k scheme has silver trim where as we have brass in the 40k timeline or is this or just FW wanting to make a noticeable difference between 30k and 40k?

 

-Noctem

[helterskelter]

Fw has done tactical support squads with "white" helmets and chest plates and that's reasonably off Base for what we think of as an NL scheme. Think it's just a legion thing, but simultaneously legions are big enough that colours vary and going what I've read in massacre (the black book) night lords organisation is loose at best so I'd imagine paint jobs fall under that.

[Black_out]

I see almost any and all paint schemes pictured in the HH books to be completely open to interpretation, more of a "hey, you can do this too!" Instead of a "you must do it this way and this way only!"

[Noctem Cultor]

That's okay I wanted to do a mix with my scheme but thought I'd check incase it was done as an insult to the Imperium I wouldn't want to miss out on that.

-Noctem

[Fracture]

So, after just over 2 years away I've got the big back for the universes wayward sons. New legions codex has really given me a drive to do a Night Lord and Word Bearer combined list so just thought I'd say hi again and hopefully you'll see some updates again from me in the coming weeks.

 

Now for that awkward but where I've got to reread my own threads to remember paint recipes.

[Kaptain Von]

So, after just over 2 years away I've got the big back for the universes wayward sons. New legions codex has really given me a drive to do a Night Lord and Word Bearer combined list so just thought I'd say hi again and hopefully you'll see some updates again from me in the coming weeks.

 

Now for that awkward but where I've got to reread my own threads to remember paint recipes.

 

Welcome back!

 

I've... had this problem. Every time I swear I'm going to write them down somewhere so they don't end up buried on a blog post/forum thread/PC that hasn't worked for six years, and every time I forget.

 

Also:

 

They're finished! More photos, thoughts on Technical Paints, basing method etc. on that blog thing I do.

 

For my next trick: first Daemon Prince. I suspect I'm going to be making a lot of these; maybe even one for each of my HQs, just in case they have a little 'incident', or I feel like loading up on big gnarly monsters for a change...

[Noctem Cultor]

Looking good Kaptain, always like the idea of DP versions even if just for a what if so and so embraced Chaos.

 

I was wondering if anyone had any official fluff/lore on NL using alternatives to bright weaponary like Melta/Plasma/Flamers/Volkite etc.

I thought that there is a chance instead of flamers we would use Acid throwers or something that changes the flame hue to something that doesn't affect our eyes?

 

-Noctem

[Dardl]

Looking good Kaptain, always like the idea of DP versions even if just for a what if so and so embraced Chaos.

 

I was wondering if anyone had any official fluff/lore on NL using alternatives to bright weaponary like Melta/Plasma/Flamers/Volkite etc.

I thought that there is a chance instead of flamers we would use Acid throwers or something that changes the flame hue to something that doesn't affect our eyes?

 

-Noctem

I was reading bloodreaver last night at I recall all an entire squad going blind right after a plasma pistol was fired. 

 

Would the night lords avoid these types of weapons maybe? 

[Noctem Cultor]

@Dardl

It's bits in the fluff like that make me wonder the same thing but it kinda limits what we can use. Maybe we need polarised helmet lenses or a flip down mask like welders use? I mean we have Preysight so why not a mode to cancel out excessive light for special weapon users etc.

 

-Noctem

[Panzer]

@Dardl

It's bits in the fluff like that make me wonder the same thing but it kinda limits what we can use. Maybe we need polarised helmet lenses or a flip down mask like welders use? I mean we have Preysight so why not a mode to cancel out excessive light for special weapon users etc.

 

-Noctem

Marine helmets already do something like that tho. So if they are still heavily affected by something like that there is probably no real solution to it.

That being said it's a piece of fluff that shouldn't be taken too seriously or else Night Lords would be the worst legion ever...getting disabled by every and any flashbang just like that or even 'generic' plasma shooting. :D

[Noctem Cultor]

 

@Dardl

It's bits in the fluff like that make me wonder the same thing but it kinda limits what we can use. Maybe we need polarised helmet lenses or a flip down mask like welders use? I mean we have Preysight so why not a mode to cancel out excessive light for special weapon users etc.

 

-Noctem

Marine helmets already do something like that tho. So if they are still heavily affected by something like that there is probably no real solution to it.

That being said it's a piece of fluff that shouldn't be taken too seriously or else Night Lords would be the worst legion ever...getting disabled by every and any flashbang just like that or even 'generic' plasma shooting.

 

 

That's my take on it, if we don't have a way around the weapons we use then if I was going against the VIII Legion id just strap torches to my armour before the battle INSTANT WIN!

 

-Noctem

[Dardl]

 

 

@Dardl

It's bits in the fluff like that make me wonder the same thing but it kinda limits what we can use. Maybe we need polarised helmet lenses or a flip down mask like welders use? I mean we have Preysight so why not a mode to cancel out excessive light for special weapon users etc.

 

-Noctem

Marine helmets already do something like that tho. So if they are still heavily affected by something like that there is probably no real solution to it.

That being said it's a piece of fluff that shouldn't be taken too seriously or else Night Lords would be the worst legion ever...getting disabled by every and any flashbang just like that or even 'generic' plasma shooting.

 

 

That's my take on it, if we don't have a way around the weapons we use then if I was going against the VIII Legion id just strap torches to my armour before the battle INSTANT WIN!

 

-Noctem

 

I agree limiting them would be insane, but in the scene I think the third claw had their helmets off. So obviously their helmets aid their eyes. Still it's pretty cool to think that if you had a sergeant in your nightlords army that was modeled with no helmet and was hit by a plasma shot, he'd be blind! Imagine obeying the lore so much that you insisted he suffered from the blind special rule haha!

[NeopoleonOz]

As promised, I got to work the other night and painted some more Legion symbols - and took enough photos for a tutorial.

 

Start with a curved line in Rakarth Flesh - this is the brow line of the skull, and the main structural line of the symbol. Its super important that you get this line as consistent as possible (both ends roughly in the same shape). I normally start each end at the horn and meet in the middle - I get a more consistent result that way. As you can see, its not perfect in terms of position slightly closer to the guard rim on the right than the left) - but its such a complicated image on a small space that it ends up being less than noticeable.

 

Also, being super neat is not so important at this stage (ignore the brown splooge of paint...Im not even sure how that got there).

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/1.jpg

 

Step 2 is to paint two lines downward from the brow line (these form the nose and the fangs.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/2.jpg

 

(as you can see, this is a different model from the one above, but I missed the photo...).

 

Step 3 is to draw the eye lines - this is tricky and takes the most practise (and dont worry, I still get this wrong... and Ive done about 40 of these now). Neatness is still not a huge concern - the clean up stage fixes everything. I usually start just under the join of the brow and a fang, and then from the brow under the horn and meet in the middle. You can see the brush strokes of that on the left eye). That means less curving of the brush stroke - which gives a more controlled and better result.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/3.jpg

 

Step 4 is top of the skull - this is usually a continuation of the eye line above the brow  - curved over, lower than the horns - and then filled in.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/4.jpg

 

Step 5 is to do a second layer of rakarth flesh over the brow, the fangs and the bottom of the eyes.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/6.jpg

 

Step 7 is to mix about 50:50 white and rakarth - to highlight top of brow, top of the brow, fangs and top of the eye lines (apologies for the photo).

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/7.jpg

 

Step 8 is the same, but with almost pure white... mix a touch of rakarth in to tone down the contrast. Just across the top centre of the brow, touch the horns and the bottom of the fangs.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/8.jpg

 

Ive added some red lines to this pic to show where the white goes:

 

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/8a.jpg

 

Step 9 is to add some definition by mixing a shade. I add a touch of rhinox hide to the rakarth - its not much, and paint the lower part of the skull, above the brow. This really makes the brow pop, and the skull really takes shape at this step. I also put a touch of this under each eye socket. This can be messy too. Dont get put off, everything will clean up. (and you can see from my pic, its messy!).

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/9.jpg

 

Step 10 is to go even one step darker than 9 (more rhinox hide) and do a really tight line just at the top of the brow.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/10.jpg

 

Now, clean up the skulls - with really thin Abaddon Black, sharpen up all of the mistakes and edges. You'll want all of the horns and fangs to be sharp points, and all of the messy bits to be nice clean lines. The eyes often need work at this point too. Unfortunately I dont have a pic of this step, but you will see from the next pic, that its mostly cleaned up.

 

If your blue is not as dark as mine, you may need to touch up parts with your base colour.

 

Next step is the start of the wings. Each pad is different shape, and your skulls will vary in width - so how this goes is quite variable (it was challenging on the metal raptors because of the vented shoulders, for example). I like to do two main veins, and if enough room, will add a little flick to show a "connection" to the skull. Outside vein gets done first, my references are usually a couple of mm above the horn, and about the same from the bottom - going as wide as you can.

 

Second vein comes from the same spot at the top, and then curls around down to finish inline with the eye socket. Another very short line then comes from the same spot towards the middle of the eye socket.

 

The first set of lines is done in Khorne Red. A second set, almost covering all of the first is done in Mephiston Red.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/11.jpg

 

Then I mix some Trollblood Orange into Mephiston Red and paint it down the middle of each existing line, about 3/4 of the way down (but the short line gets this all the way down). You can see the brighter orange in this pic (even if blurred) and the darker reds on the outside of each line.The other pic is less blurred but doesnt show as well. Also visible here is the shadow on the skull from earlier.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/12.jpghttp://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/13.jpg

 

Then I mix some Ustashi Bone into the Meph/Troll red/orange mix - so its like a peachy/flesh colour. This is then painted similarly to the orange but only 30-50% of the way down each vein.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/neopoleon/paint/14.jpg

 

Then I clean up with Abaddon Black again - points of the wings nice and sharp, clean up any messy lines. Bear in mind, these photos are extreme close ups and every stroke and mistake is visible - they are much nicer in the flesh.

 

And then its done - I normally do 5 at a time and get them done in about an hour and a half. I used to use the metal GW pads, but Ive been finding that Ive been flicking them off and replacing them with handpainted pads - I really like the effect.

 

Cheers - Neo

[Noctem Cultor]

Hey all, im having a Name the Sorcerer competition over in my Blog thread (click the signature link) and thought id also share pictures as it was Kaptain Von's (Thanks for that idea!) DV Lord Krannon the Relentless conversion the inspired me to make mine.

Yeah so help a Nostroman Brother out and suggest this guy a name in my blog! Im on a 12 day Norway Cruise so plenty of time before I pick a winner.

-Nostroman

[Dardl]

Ave Dominius Nox brothers of the 8th. 

So today is pay day and I am going to build a raptor Talon for my 40k army that I can also use in 30k. I will avoid chaos Iconography and will put a few terror squad helms into the mix. Night raptors are too expensive and the helms equally so on ebay. 

So does anyone have any other advice on this? I've seem Augustus's amazing flayed skin tutorial so will be using that but what's really getting me is body part accessories. 

Aside from spending 31 euro on a box of zombies (and the inability to find any decent bits bundles on ebay for them) Where else can I get some grim and terrifying accessories for my night lords?

Any help and advice is appreciated! Thanks!