Blood Angels 'Chapter Tactics' - what do you want to see?

[knife&fork]

Chapter wide furious charge wouldn't be out of character... and rampage, I really want rampage :D

[Blindhamster]

remind me, what does rampage do again?

[knife&fork]

remind me, what does rampage do again?

+D3 attacks if the enemy outnumbers you.

It's cancelled by disordered charge though. Damn I hate that rule, one of the worst and most counter intuitive USRs in 6th....

"Oh no! Battle brother Steve is punching a guy from a different enemy squad! I'm totally not angry anymore!"

[Memento Of Prospero]

Steve was always a party pooper.

[Blindhamster]

does disordered charge also affect furious charge? or is it just attack related stuff?

[Terrahawk]

I'd love the Death Company to have the Rampage USR. If anyone here watches Archer, they'll know the beauty of a good ol' fashioned Rampage.

[MagicMan]

Don't forget you guys have fast vehicles all round.

 

I'd kill for that in CSM. :P

[Jolemai]

does disordered charge also affect furious charge? or is it just attack related stuff?

Sadly Furious Charge is lost should Steve decide to punch another unit.

[knife&fork]

I'd love the Death Company to have the Rampage USR. If anyone here watches Archer, they'll know the beauty of a good ol' fashioned Rampage.

"Did you see Reginus this morning?" ...... *BLAM*

Don't forget you guys have fast vehicles all round.

I'd kill for that in CSM.

It's great! Just overcosted in general now in 6th that vehicles are more fragile and faster. The fast predator isn't too bad but 20-30 pts extra on a whirlwind or rhino is steep.

[Blindhamster]

No benefit on a rhino, very small benefit on razorback, huge benefit on shooty tanks.

[Septicon]

I can't see why Blood Angels who favour in your face combat, wouldn't be faster at CC, if not a universal rule then maybe a Debuffing piece of wargear available to units with jump packs. Dark angels have bombs and grenades that reduce initiative im sure BA's could have something too.

[Snejk]

I like the red thirst, and that all vechicles are fast. But I kinda lack Hit & Run on jump Marines. 

[sockwithaticket]

I'd like to see something like the Charcarodons Chapter Tactic which allows anyone with a bolter to replace it with bolt pistol and close combat weapon or pay to have all three. Would introduce some new flexibility to Tac squads, particularly if you combat squad them.

Razorback w/ 5 close combat marines (special weapon) + Character, 5 bolter marines (heavy weapon) left in the backfield to objective sit.

Pod of marines with all 3 weapon options means they can do close range firefight and pack more punch should they be assaulted/assault theselves.

[Blindhamster]

yeah, that is my biggest wish, wont happen, but i'd love it if we had that option... although honestly I think all marines should have it anyway.

[Quixus]

They should be better at anything flight related, instinct/genetic memory and all that, they should be better at close combat, but just for the charge which is why a rage/furious charge combo might work.

I agree.

 

I'd like to see:

- Keep DoA and jump pack troops.

- Possibility to reserve everything

- Jump Packs that work better than the normal ones (maybe like Raven Guard, maybe differently)

- Something like 5th Ed Heroic Intervention to all would probably be too much.

 

While pretty detrimental I think DC should be uncontrollable. Given that they have vivid hallucinations of the Siege of Terra, I wonder how they function at all. The chaplains' encouragement also should not work better on people that are in their own world than on attentive marines. The chaplains' oratory should be spent on giving the DC some semblance of control.

[Blindhamster]

I would bet money on losing heroic intervention anyway, seems that assaulting from reserves has been getting removed anywhere else it existed, we wont be any different - same will go for the Ork special character I bet. And yeah, giving it to everything would be overpowered to the max.

 

completely agree on DC being uncontrollable - they always have been, but the current codex not allowing chaplains to control them (who have always been able to)was just daft.

 

My hopes in simple terms:

 

Organisation changes:

 

HQ

Move Corbulo to HQ, up his stats to 3 wounds maybe

Dante striking at init or gaining eternal warrior, lose the current deathmask rule, but gain something else.

DC Tycho and Mephiston to become Independent characters again.

Mephiston to have a minor stat drop and point drop, perhaps make his force weapon have unique rules.

Give Captains and Honour guard access to artificer armour and glaive encarmines (perhaps Honour guard only get AA if they are Dante's honour guard?)

Drop sanguinors points and remove sanguinors blessing (see troops section) retain lack of IC, but become a FMC.

Astorath gets a point decrease, and some change to how his interaction with the red thirst works.

 

Elites

Change sanguinary guard, either just a point drop, or give them an invulnerable or a combo of both.

Techmarines no longer take a slot and can be taken per tank in army.

Priests either get an extra wound or drop significantly in points.

Sternguard/Terminator points brought in line with Codex Space marines.

Don't add centurions or anything similar

 

Troops

Tacticals gain the option to buy a close combat weapon at 1 point a model. Otherwise identical to Codex space marines in points and rules

Assault marines made to be identical to codex space marines in both points and rules

scouts the same as codex space marines.

Death Company remain as they are, but cheaper jump packs, uncontrollable without a chaplain.

Lemartes remains as he is.

Add a special character upgrade sergeant to either tacticals or assaults that basically has the sanguinors blessing, give him a unique name, cool model.

 

Dedicated transports

Retain fast where we have it, but only 5 points more than codex marines, as on dedicated transports its mostly useless.

everything else the same as codex space marines.

 

Fast Attack

Bring everything in line with codex space marines, including adding the storm talon.

Baal Predator remain identical to its current rules.

Vanguard points costs and rules the same as codex space marines.

 

Heavy support

Bring everything in line with codex space marines, including storm raven points and weapons options.

Vindicators need to not be fast, honestly, being able to move 12 and fire is kind of insane.

 

 

I'd really like to see them not add new units to our book, other than an upgrade sergeant or two and the storm talon.

 

Army wide rules:

Keep DoA exactly as is, [erhaps allow them to land on an enemy unit (count as charging) but rather than making attacks they get hammer of wrath hits. OR use a similar jump pack rule to raven guard (perhaps without the rerolls to hammer of wrath)

Red Thirst is a per turn thing, that effects EVERYTHING (including special characters), on a roll of 1 or 2 they gain Rage and Furious charge, but have to move toward nearest enemy. a Priest or Chaplain would allow a reroll.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Having an uncontrollable unit that your enemy can kite in any way will make them extremely difficult to justify. Have played Chaos for a long time; the complaints about Berzerkers and Spawn chasing Land Speeders like a dog does cars, and our stupid Dreadnoughts, firmly convince me against this. It's a happy accident that your Death Company see the right enemy target as traitors of the Black Legion on Terra or what have you, and don't find themselves headbutting a Land Raider because they've mistaken it for Horus.

 

I could go for Chaplains boosting them, because that builds synergy, which is a wonderful thing (speaking from a Codex with none to write home about) and is fluffy (again, speaking from a lack thereof). But punishing a player because he was stupid enough to take a unit that is integral to the background of his army? Please, no.

[Blindhamster]

it worked fine in the past, i'd also like to see random deathcompany come back, in 3e chaplains came with d3+3 deathcompany, you then had a chance to lose a model or two from units before the game started, but have them added as extra death company. Was quite cool in that the death company were completely free back then unless you bought them special weapons...

[Orblivion]

I can only hope that GW was removing assault from deep strike specifically to make it unique to an army that specializes in assaulting and deep striking. I think that might be giving GW too much credit though. I posted these thoughts in another thread, but it can't hurt to repost them here:

-Dante needs a rework, both rules and model IMO. Personally, I say make the Spear of Telesto a chapter relic and give it to him. It fits his Hit & Run mechanics far better.

-Mephiston either needs a buff or a point reduction. Characters like Skarbrand can stomp Mephiston flat for less points.

-DC Tycho should be an IC. I'd be happy even with only being able to join DC, because as it stands now nobody has any reason to ever field him.

-I'd like to see something to make the Sanguinary Guard a little tougher, my first thought was the ability to add a Priest as a squad upgrade option.

-Something to make Glaives stand out a bit more than just being master-crafted. I'm open to ideas on this one, they just feel bland to me right now.

-Chapter wide special rule granting Initiative boost on the charge. Losing the +1I in Furious Charge really hurt the assault emphasis of the army I think.

-I think we might see a Blood Angel specific Centurion, but I'm at a loss as to what it will be. Maybe either jump pack equipped, or with Blood Talons?

[Quixus]

-I'd like to see something to make the Sanguinary Guard a little tougher, my first thought was the ability to add a Priest as a squad upgrade option.

They should also be upgradeable to up to 10 men just as any other unit of marines.

-Something to make Glaives stand out a bit more than just being master-crafted.  I'm open to ideas on this one, they just feel bland to me right now.

Make them GK special halberds, maybe. Polearms should be at the enemy earlier than the shorter axes, maces and swords.

[Morticon]

Guys, quick "mod voice" announcement.

 

This thread started out quite catty, terse and pointed- and could have become ugly quickly.  

Please dont let that happen again.  Even if those involved may not have seen it as an issue, others reading pick up on it, and that generates a general unpleasant vibe.

 

The guys that have been here for a few years know that the B&C and the BA forum specifically goes out of its way to provide a safe, friendly and welcoming environment to all - even those that disagree with us. 

 

So, feel free to disagree and engage with various detractors- but please dont forget what we stand for here in this forum. 

 

Cheers,

Mort.

 

 

As for the topic....
 

Should DEFINITELY get chapter tactics that give +1 I and S when charging.

 

 

If this happens, irrespective of what the codex looks like otherwise, I may have fits of nostalgia-induced euphoric explosions.

 

Points in line with new dexs, (including BA specific units) and everything otherwise the same, + the above and id be happy.



 

[Chaplain Admetus]

I think Red Thirst and Descent of Angels are a perfectly fine equivalent to Chapter Tactics. Maybe tweak Red Thirst slightly, but DoA works beautifully as is. I don't see the need for a massive change.

[Blindhamster]

Sorry mort... been here long enough to know better.

[TheHarrower]

I don't think the +1 bonus to Initiative is going to happen. What I do think we should get is Blood Angel models in assault aren't removed until the Initiative 0 step so we always get our attacks.

 

As for Red Thirst, I would do this:

 

Blood Angels within 12" of an enemy model (not a vehicle) roll a D6 at the start of their movement phase. On a roll of 1-2 they suffer the effects of Red Thirst and gain Rage, Fleet, and Fearless until the start of their next turn. Models that are under the affect of Red Thirst that fire in the Shooting Phase can only fire Snap Shots.

 

That's a good trade off to me. Has bonuses for melee units and penalties for shooting units. Rage across the board is too good IMO.

[Quixus]

I don't think the +1 bonus to Initiative is going to happen. What I do think we should get is Blood Angel models in assault aren't removed until the Initiative 0 step so we always get our attacks.

I think giving certain units an established game mechanic (change to initiative) is much more likely than rewriting a core game mechanic (removal of casualties) for a couple of units. Also I don't see why Blood Angels should be any more capable of fighting on while mortally wounded than other marines.