Blood Angels 'Chapter Tactics' - what do you want to see?

[Quixus]

Yeah more Blood for the Blood God Emperor.

 

I like the idea of more assault oriented marines. Especially with jump packs. To do that well again there would either have to be a change in the rules for assault and ranged combat or the marines would need a couple of goodies. The stat line and FNP/FC does not seem to work as well in 6th.

[Kanis]

The FNP and almost unnoticeable FCharge are I agree, not really enough especially as it's far easier to shoot out Priests from squads, more so for me as my regular opponent is Tau that enjoys doing that...but I've talked with a friend and we've more or less said what I've read so far:

 

-Token systems, LD related checks, return to turn by turn tests etc.

 

He had mentioned how he thought maybe giving BA a little more focus on assault for more than just Assault Marines, as they're contrary to the game, not the dominant number of troops in the Chapter, but I am with fellows here that believe BA are not berserkers nor are they Wolves, but to me are more like Ultramarines/Dark Angels in doctrine until that bitter breaking point where they are far worse and frightening than either of the above; again, in my opinion only.

 

I would enjoy seeing the Sanguinary Guard become more formidable/durable as they're a unit I really fancy, especially after reading Fear To Tread and getting more glimpses of our lost but beloved Father. Anyway, I just wanted to add my 2 cents but I can't add more than what you've already added brothers, I like the thoughts going on here!

[Quixus]

What do yo mean by token systems?

 

Yes, according to the fluff, the BA are mostly codex adherent, but I think it is a good idea to make them more different from C:SM in game. If there are 5 loyalist marine codices (C:SM, C:BA, C:DA, C:SW, C:GK) they should vary quite a bit more than what could be achieved with a selectable chapter tactic or taking an HQ that unlocks a certain ability.

[depthcharge12]

Better tactical squads?

 

In the fluff it says that is where the best and most level headed battle brothers go and is the last stage before veteranship. The second in command of the force is almost always the tactical Sargent.

 

 

It would be nice to see a little buff to them like improved leadership or something. Not mandatory, but fun and fluffy nonetheless.

[Quixus]

Is that true for BA as well? I thought that was a Ultramarine thing.

[Disruptor_fe404]

It's a Codex thing.

 

And the Blood Angels are largely Codex-adherent.

[Orblivion]

Is that true for BA as well? I thought that was a Ultramarine thing.

 

It is true for the BA as well per the codex, mostly because tactical marines are the ones who have proven they have the willpower to maintain control most of the time.  Again though, from a gameplay perspective it's just too similar to C:SM for my tastes.  Everyone uses tactical marines, making the BA tacs better is along the lines of making C:BA into C:SM+1 and leads to BA being played the same way any other chapter would be.

[Durundal]

Hq that can use the blood talon special rule . Or as a relic weapon. Or a VV sergeant upgrade

[depthcharge12]

I would like to see the rules that we have for HH where you can get a dreadnought talon that has up to 3 dreads in it that start together but separate at the start of the game. Saves on FOC

[Demus Ragnok]

Would be nice if generic captains got good wargear options so I wouldnt feel like its a waste modelling my DIY captain.

[Kanis]

What do yo mean by token systems?

 

Yes, according to the fluff, the BA are mostly codex adherent, but I think it is a good idea to make them more different from C:SM in game. If there are 5 loyalist marine codices (C:SM, C:BA, C:DA, C:SW, C:GK) they should vary quite a bit more than what could be achieved with a selectable chapter tactic or taking an HQ that unlocks a certain ability.

 

Well, we'd brainstormed ideas using the DE as a model example: say everytime the unit takes casualties by a set amount, they would gain a "rage" token of some kind, granting them a strong benefit but also a fitting drawback as they lose willpower seeing comrades die, enemies pin them, etc.

 

Or, by winning a combat, by a margin, and so on, they gain a "thirst" token that makes them more evil but lacking in control for each win. That's in short what my pal and I discussed, and while we liked the idea it's extremely unlikely they'll use something that complex, and more go with an easier SRule or addition than that; but, it's still fun to think about and share. :)

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

If they take away my death company dreadnought what am I going to do with my 5 extra dreadnought models?!

 

I feel like they should make more of a reason for blood angels to at least maybe run a bike squad or 2

 

I don't really have a problem with bikes, but I feel like that is something C:SM does really well.  I'd rather see the BA codex make them even more unique than they are currently.  I'll probably catch some flak for this but I always loved the idea of the old Index Astartes Blood Angels, where the entire 1st company was comprised of Vanguard Veterans.  As much as I like Sternguard, I would sacrifice them if it meant getting some truly powerful, standout VV.  This is just one of my spitball ideas though, so don't take it as me calling for an exclusion of Sternguard.

 

Oh, I second that idea. Get rid of Sternguard entirely and give us back Assault Veterans with more unique wargear, special rules and stats. By the frozen pits of Hel, only because a shooty edition comes peeking around the corner everyone jumps on the bandwagon train and abandons the true ways of what distinguished the Blood Angels from regular Marines...

I feel Sternguard are horribly misplaced in our codex. Their efficiency I don't care about, it's the thought of our veterans standing around and pulling the trigger of a bolter instead of striking down on the heart of the opponent's force, tear it out and cast it aside like a used sheath that really grinds my gears. Being codex adherent or not, this is not a very fluffly unit for a Chapter like the Blood Angels. Special ammunition could be a limited upgrade for our tactical squads(up to two squads perhaps), we should let our Veterans gain the true glory of hand-to-hand combat.

 

Need better rules, though.

 

 

 

Snorri

[Toomanyprojects]

I think I'd like to see some sort of representation for the BA duality. You could either choose to fight the curse (BA, AS, Lamenters and s on), or choose to embrace it (FT, KoB, FE)

 

Not sure how that would work in rules, except that those chapters who embrace it are hardly likely to have huge lists of allies :)

[Blindhamster]

i personally think sternguard work quite nicely as a BA unit, two reasons...

1) Tycho, it makes sense that his shooting has synergy with another unit.

2) The longer serving BAs become Tacticals prior to vets, so it stands to reason that a good number of our vets would remain along the calmer less in your face path that tacticals are better know for.

 

I could go with them being a restricted unit (0-1 i guess) with Tycho maybe allowing fore more of them.

 

Our Vanguard of course should stand out as we were the first ones to have veteran assault marines, but... I'm not sure how we could do that now, giving ours access to shooty weapons again seems more than a little pointless, our regular assault marines get decent weapon options already, vanguard are a melee unit, and I doubt that'll change.

[Orblivion]

i personally think sternguard work quite nicely as a BA unit, two reasons...

1) Tycho, it makes sense that his shooting has synergy with another unit.

2) The longer serving BAs become Tacticals prior to vets, so it stands to reason that a good number of our vets would remain along the calmer less in your face path that tacticals are better know for.

 

I could go with them being a restricted unit (0-1 i guess) with Tycho maybe allowing fore more of them.

 

Our Vanguard of course should stand out as we were the first ones to have veteran assault marines, but... I'm not sure how we could do that now, giving ours access to shooty weapons again seems more than a little pointless, our regular assault marines get decent weapon options already, vanguard are a melee unit, and I doubt that'll change.

 

But something has to change.  Very few people take Vanguard, for good reason, and it will only get worse if we lose the old Heroic Intervention like C:SM did.  It seems wrong to think that we will never see VV in anyone's BA list.

 

I'm not so much calling for a removal of Sternguard as I am calling for a serious upgrade of Vanguard, even at the cost of Sternguard if necessary.

[Blindhamster]

if they were cheaper, i'd take em more, i consistently used a unit of 6 last edition, they were excellent. Thankfully they'll get cheaper.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure what you could do to make the assault orientated vanguard good this edition though, other than have them come with better armour, but thats the sanguinary guards job. Making them a shooting unit doesn't make any sense as they'd still not be as good as sternguard (unless they were sternguard with jump packs... but that wont happen). Perhaps we'll get a different special rule than the codex ones, but I'm not sure what it could be that'd actually be any good, other than keeping deepstrike and charge, but that would also almost definitely mean we wouldnt see the point drop the codex ones had.

 

 

p.s. for reference Snorri, I've always ran my blood angels as mostly codex, as thats exactly what the fluff has always shown them to be, so tacticals have always been more common in my armies than assault squads, no bandwagon jumping here. (and I've been playing probably as long as most here at 17 years)

[SnorriSnorrison]

if they were cheaper, i'd take em more, i consistently used a unit of 6 last edition, they were excellent. Thankfully they'll get cheaper.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure what you could do to make the assault orientated vanguard good this edition though, other than have them come with better armour, but thats the sanguinary guards job. Making them a shooting unit doesn't make any sense as they'd still not be as good as sternguard (unless they were sternguard with jump packs... but that wont happen). Perhaps we'll get a different special rule than the codex ones, but I'm not sure what it could be that'd actually be any good, other than keeping deepstrike and charge, but that would also almost definitely mean we wouldnt see the point drop the codex ones had.

 

 

p.s. for reference Snorri, I've always ran my blood angels as mostly codex, as thats exactly what the fluff has always shown them to be, so tacticals have always been more common in my armies than assault squads, no bandwagon jumping here. (and I've been playing probably as long as most here at 17 years)

 

I didn't mean to offense you, mate! I do run my Blood Angels mostly codex, too, however I do like the assault-y elements that portray the Blood Angels' lust for combat on the tabtletop.

And, by the way, assault marines never used to be Troops before the pdf-codex, so I'm with you on that POV. :)

 

 

However,when I field two tactical squads, that's quite enough short-range shooting for me, and then I'm looking around for other, more specialised close combat units, which in the past used to be the assault veteran squads, among others. Now, add a unit of Sternguard, and what remains of an army that used to focus on brutal melee with fire-support is a mostly shooty army in the core with some CC elements. Basically, any army chosen from C:SM. We might just as well get rolled and add three special units to a data-slate or something among those lines.

 

It's just that I feel like BA don't need a specialised infantry unit for shooting, other than terminators, perhaps, which have received a huge bonus this edition. Even our scouts used to be focused on melee. I'm just saying, despite the flow of the rules, we should be superior in close combat, and the very elite of our chapter should reflect.

 

 

Snorri

[Spagunk]

I like the rage token idea. Definitely worthwhile.

 

It would be interesting if they can re-shape sternguard to give them an assault focus. Swap out special use ammo and give them blood shard ammo?

 

Veteran Assault Marines used to be in addition to normal Veteran Marines back in 3rd ed. But because they were assault oriented (also vet marines were crud), they were better suited for BA and thus more useful.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I like the rage token idea. Definitely worthwhile.

 

It would be interesting if they can re-shape sternguard to give them an assault focus. Swap out special use ammo and give them blood shard ammo?

 

Veteran Assault Marines used to be in addition to normal Veteran Marines back in 3rd ed. But because they were assault oriented (also vet marines were crud), they were better suited for BA and thus more useful.

 

You can't reshape sternguard into something else. They wouldn't be sternguard anymore. Might as well make a new unit.

[Durundal]

I want A veteran Vanguard sergeant to get the blood Talon special rule when he is equipped with lightning claws. Or give that to Dante along with the better load out

[Orblivion]

I want A veteran Vanguard sergeant to get the blood Talon special rule when he is equipped with lightning claws. Or give that to Dante along with the better load out

 

Dante should have the Spear of Telesto.  AP3, AP2 on the charge and with a flamer template shooting attack.  It's a big chapter relic from the BL novels and it fits his existing rules perfectly, so why not?

 

As far the Sternguard/Vanguard thing is concerned, Snorri's last post sums up how I feel perfectly.  I just want to see a BA codex that emphasizes different units than C:SM.

[Blindhamster]

i really hope they keep all references to that series away from the actual codex personally... plus dante has always had the axe mortalis, all they need to do is either let it hit at init or give him eternal warrior and he'd be done...

[Orblivion]

i really hope they keep all references to that series away from the actual codex personally... plus dante has always had the axe mortalis, all they need to do is either let it hit at init or give him eternal warrior and he'd be done...

 

This isn't out of any love for the BA omnibus.  I just think with his Hit & Run it would suit him perfectly to have a power lance, especially if SG were also given a lance profile for the Glaives.  And if we're going to give him a power lance, it might as well be the Spear of Telesto :)

[Quozzo]

 

i personally think sternguard work quite nicely as a BA unit, two reasons...

1) Tycho, it makes sense that his shooting has synergy with another unit.

2) The longer serving BAs become Tacticals prior to vets, so it stands to reason that a good number of our vets would remain along the calmer less in your face path that tacticals are better know for.

 

I could go with them being a restricted unit (0-1 i guess) with Tycho maybe allowing fore more of them.

 

Our Vanguard of course should stand out as we were the first ones to have veteran assault marines, but... I'm not sure how we could do that now, giving ours access to shooty weapons again seems more than a little pointless, our regular assault marines get decent weapon options already, vanguard are a melee unit, and I doubt that'll change.

 

But something has to change.  Very few people take Vanguard, for good reason, and it will only get worse if we lose the old Heroic Intervention like C:SM did.  It seems wrong to think that we will never see VV in anyone's BA list.

 

I'm not so much calling for a removal of Sternguard as I am calling for a serious upgrade of Vanguard, even at the cost of Sternguard if necessary.

A weapon that can switch between the different rules that come with Special Issue Ammunition, but in melee, without an upgrade as the sternguard don't need one. Perhaps spread the blood from the sang priests onto the chainsaw, perhaps use different "stances", perhaps a "smite mode" :/

[Quixus]

i really hope they keep all references to that series away from the actual codex personally... plus dante has always had the axe mortalis, all they need to do is either let it hit at init or give him eternal warrior and he'd be done...

This isn't out of any love for the BA omnibus. I just think with his Hit & Run it would suit him perfectly to have a power lance, especially if SG were also given a lance profile for the Glaives. And if we're going to give him a power lance, it might as well be the Spear of Telesto

Give him both. It fits much better than being more or less forced to pistol whip certain opponents.