Blood Angels 'Chapter Tactics' - what do you want to see?

[Bartali]

I don't see the point in getting a 7th ed codex halfway through 6th... their planned changes have the time to rot 10 times over before they have a clue as to how to force us to buy new models.

I want a 7th ed codex at the start of 7th ed, rather than a 6th ed codex towards the end of 6th.

[Orblivion]

What makes you think we're towards the end of 6th?  We aren't even 2 years in yet, the other editions averaged roughly 6 years a piece for lifespan.

[Blindhamster]

2nd was 5 years, 3rd was 6 years, 4th was 4 years, 5th was 4 years. So yeah, if the trend keeps, I'd guess at another 30 or some months before 7th. But they may make the jump sooner this time, or as has been rumoured, we may see more of a living rulebook format where new 'editions' come out that just fix a few bits and an FAQ gets released for anyone that already has it, starter boxes focus then moves entirely to the limited ed unique models, especially if they did one of those boxes each year, and discontinued the last one.

 

I imagine people would still buy updated main rulebooks every so often to get up to date rules too.

[ChapelXIII]

Actually, I could see the core ruleset bring updated faster this time around.

 

If you look at the release schedule during this edition it has been acceleratedvby quite a bit. I really hope that it isn't, but I believe that it could be possible.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Actually, I could see the core ruleset bring updated faster this time around.

 

If you look at the release schedule during this edition it has been acceleratedvby quite a bit. I really hope that it isn't, but I believe that it could be possible.

 

The only reason why the release schedule is accelerated is to give all armies a current edition codex, and milk all the cows at once. Things are not looking good for GW. The edition will have roughly the same lifespan as the others.

[Bartali]

I can easily see 7th ed next year at the rate they're releasing codexes. If GW releases five codexes again this year, they'll have run out of stuff to update by September next year. Thus time for a new edition.

[Jolemai]

Or supplementals. Or dataslates. Lots and lots of dataslates.

[Blindhamster]

i'd honestly expect them to focus on supplements and data slates, they're quick cash makers, data slates in particular probably bring in good profit due to decreased costs of production vs paper products.

[Durundal]

That means I would need to buy an iPad :(

[Toomanyprojects]

You can use any e-reader for their stuff, not just iPads.

 

Last I heard, there was gonna be an update to the rules this year, but that it wouldnt be so big as to count as a new edition. Is that not the case still?

[Memento Of Prospero]

Everythinf points to a 6.5 release, with the FAQ amendments and possible game tweaks. But let's nit start wishing they will be fixing CC gentlemen, that will.have to wait for 7th.

[Drachnon]

If the blood angels were to get a chapter tactic maybe something to negate disordered charge? 

 

The justification would be that while many armies field Close Combat specialists Blood Angels have a long history of fighting large numbers of enemies up close and personal. So the troops get drilled in fighting multiple combat at once. 

 

Combined with furious charge from priest it would give us some synergy.

 

Another chapter tactic in this line of thinking could be a bonus whenever the enemy has more models in combat then you, though I don't know what this bonus should be.

[Kanis]

If the blood angels were to get a chapter tactic maybe something to negate disordered charge? 

 

The justification would be that while many armies field Close Combat specialists Blood Angels have a long history of fighting large numbers of enemies up close and personal. So the troops get drilled in fighting multiple combat at once. 

 

Combined with furious charge from priest it would give us some synergy.

 

Another chapter tactic in this line of thinking could be a bonus whenever the enemy has more models in combat then you, though I don't know what this bonus should be.

 

Rampage USR does this, giving a model/unit +D3 attacks if outnumbered by foes in CC, so that could be a neat addition to help out as you stated. ^ ^

[d@n]

The reason for the exalerated release schedule for codices, is to bring them all upto date with one another. To stop codex creep, or at least to try and stop it. If there is a new rule book, it will just have esculation ect rolled into it and maybe one or two rule tweaks. The rumour I have heard is, getting to charge after consolidation, as an attempt to balance shooting/assault. Which is only a good thing for blood angels.

[Drachnon]

 

If the blood angels were to get a chapter tactic maybe something to negate disordered charge? 

 

The justification would be that while many armies field Close Combat specialists Blood Angels have a long history of fighting large numbers of enemies up close and personal. So the troops get drilled in fighting multiple combat at once. 

 

Combined with furious charge from priest it would give us some synergy.

 

Another chapter tactic in this line of thinking could be a bonus whenever the enemy has more models in combat then you, though I don't know what this bonus should be.

 

Rampage USR does this, giving a model/unit +D3 attacks if outnumbered by foes in CC, so that could be a neat addition to help out as you stated. ^ ^

 

I think a D3 might be overdoing it a bit, maybe a +1 but even that would quickly run into the problem of BA spamming 5 men squads of assault marines who on the charge net 4 attacks.

[Brother apocalyptic]

Heres what Id like to see in the new codex.. Not sure about the suggested points or so, but I think it would keep in line with what I think are what BA are about. Strong and proud artisan warriors, who are flawed thanks to the great betrayer.

Dante: hitting on I and getting EW, otherwise he is good as he is. Maybe drop him to 200 or so?

 

Seth: Never played him, cant tell

 

Astorath: Hit on I, Remove "shadow of the primarch" and give him a 6" furious charge/fearless bubble. Perhaps drop to 190?

 

Sanguinor: Never played him, cant tell

Mephiston: give him the option to choose spells freely (between codex and rulebook). Drop in points to 210 or so?

 

Tycho: I like him the way he is, just like him to be a tad cheaper.

 

Generic HQs: bring them in line with C:SM regarding point costs and such. Give the option for artificier armor.

 

Generic Elites/Troops/Fast/Heavy: I like the options as they are, just bring them up to par with the current C:SM points and rules vice.

 

furioso Librarian: Drop upgrade cost to say 25 pts? Give the option to take dreadnought upgrades

 

Priests: i dont feel like there is a real use for any changes here either, just perhaps drop the costs a tad.

 

Corbulo: This man should be a HQ, but with the following changes: LD10, 3 wounds. The red grail: Gives all units within 6" furious charge, FnP and rage. Cost: 165 pts

 

Armywide:

Descent of Angels: Keep as it is.

Red thirst: on a 1-2 the unit is overcome by the memories of Sanguinus in his final moments. They get the Rage, FC and Fearless USR, but lose ATSKNF. On the start of each turn, take a LD test, if you pass, then the unit behaves as usual, but if you fail, they immidiatly move towards the closest enemy unit. If no enemy unit is visible, then they may not move that turn.

 

Artisans of the long war: Allows any sergeant to buy artificier armor for 10pts. May also make a single weapon in each squad MC for 5 pts.

 

Warlord traits:

1: Reroll reserve rolls for any unit in reserve.

2: for 1 turn, the entire army may reroll thier charge moves

3: The warlord and any unit he joins has Hit and run

4: The warlord and any unit he joins gains fleet

5: The warlord looses IC but gains fearless, +1 WS, S, W and +2 attacks.

6: For 1 turn, the entire army gets +1 WS or BS (choose for each unit)

 

Relics:

Sword of Azkaellon: +2S, MC, AP2. 30 pts

Banner of Sanguinus: All units within 6" adds +d3 to a single movement each turn (regular movement, running or charging), and +1I. 40 pts

Astramaels armor: 2+, 5+ artificier armor, may reroll failed invo saves. 40 pts?

Angels spear: +1S, +2I, AP3. 30 pts

[d@n]

fast vehicles. red thirst and decent of angels are all pretty good chapter tactics.

 

I would give the red thirst rage as well as furious charge and allow a unit to roll for it every time they win combat and allow the unit to roll, in the same way, for rampage every time they loose combat.  so either they win combat and consolidate towards the next unit in a blood fuelled frenzy or they loose combat, feel the anger of sanguinus death and failure to kill horus and fight even harder in a blood fuelled frenzy.  

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

@Brother apocalyptic:

All I got from Dante, Astorath, and Sword of Azkaellon is that you want AP 2 at Initiative, against the general flow of this edition. And giving Dante Eternal Warrior on top of being able to remove wounds without reply like that is a bit overkill. And removing Shadow of the Primarch and recycling its effect into an aura is blatant powerwishlisting.

 

On Mephiston, I think it's pretty clear that Blood Angels are going to get their own psychic table of random powers- like every other army. If by pick powers between the rulebook and the Codex, you mean both choose from a list and roll for rulebook powers, I think it's highly unrealistic and unbalanced.

 

Your Red Thirst rule describes a squad falling as a whole to the Black Rage, not the Red Thirst. And speaking from experience as a Chaos player, having your units do stupid random stuff for 'character' isn't all that characterful, fun, or in any way conducive to a competitive list.

 

I've got no real issue with Sergeants and up getting Artificer Armor (or Master Crafted stuff on dudes), though I think the cost is a bit low. Plus you're hoping for a lot of points drops in tandem with buffs...

 

Banner of Sanguinius is just, to me, trying to get the crutch that was old Furious Charge back.

 

Warlord Traits: 2 seems underpowered, maybe one unit per turn; 5 is begging the enemy to put railgun projectiles through your Warlord's face for an easy Slay the Warlord; 6 seems way OP (all my shooty hits on 2s, all my choppy hits on threes because of the LOLz).

[Orblivion]

@Brother apocalyptic:

 

All I got from Dante, Astorath, and Sword of Azkaellon is that you want AP 2 at Initiative, against the general flow of this edition. And giving Dante Eternal Warrior on top of being able to remove wounds without reply like that is a bit overkill. And removing Shadow of the Primarch and recycling its effect into an aura is blatant powerwishlisting.

 

On Mephiston, I think it's pretty clear that Blood Angels are going to get their own psychic table of random powers- like every other army. If by pick powers between the rulebook and the Codex, you mean both choose from a list and roll for rulebook powers, I think it's highly unrealistic and unbalanced.

 

Your Red Thirst rule describes a squad falling as a whole to the Black Rage, not the Red Thirst. And speaking from experience as a Chaos player, having your units do stupid random stuff for 'character' isn't all that characterful, fun, or in any way conducive to a competitive list.

 

I've got no real issue with Sergeants and up getting Artificer Armor (or Master Crafted stuff on dudes), though I think the cost is a bit low. Plus you're hoping for a lot of points drops in tandem with buffs...

 

Banner of Sanguinius is just, to me, trying to get the crutch that was old Furious Charge back.

 

Warlord Traits: 2 seems underpowered, maybe one unit per turn; 5 is begging the enemy to put railgun projectiles through your Warlord's face for an easy Slay the Warlord; 6 seems way OP (all my shooty hits on 2s, all my choppy hits on threes because of the LOLz).

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily say AP2 at initiative is against the flow of this edition.  That was one of my biggest complaints about when Dante got hit with Unwieldy, I knew that through power creep that plenty of other characters would get AP2 at initiative.  Skarbrand has it, Abaddon has it, and Eldar and Dark Eldar both have it available through wargear.  There may even be more, but those are the ones I have witnessed.  In retrospect it was silly of GW to make AP2 Unwieldy to begin with, they should have known that their codex writers would constantly go against that to make their army/character "unique".

[Cronhour]

 

@Brother apocalyptic:

All I got from Dante, Astorath, and Sword of Azkaellon is that you want AP 2 at Initiative, against the general flow of this edition. And giving Dante Eternal Warrior on top of being able to remove wounds without reply like that is a bit overkill. And removing Shadow of the Primarch and recycling its effect into an aura is blatant powerwishlisting.

 

On Mephiston, I think it's pretty clear that Blood Angels are going to get their own psychic table of random powers- like every other army. If by pick powers between the rulebook and the Codex, you mean both choose from a list and roll for rulebook powers, I think it's highly unrealistic and unbalanced.

 

Your Red Thirst rule describes a squad falling as a whole to the Black Rage, not the Red Thirst. And speaking from experience as a Chaos player, having your units do stupid random stuff for 'character' isn't all that characterful, fun, or in any way conducive to a competitive list.

 

I've got no real issue with Sergeants and up getting Artificer Armor (or Master Crafted stuff on dudes), though I think the cost is a bit low. Plus you're hoping for a lot of points drops in tandem with buffs...

 

Banner of Sanguinius is just, to me, trying to get the crutch that was old Furious Charge back.

 

Warlord Traits: 2 seems underpowered, maybe one unit per turn; 5 is begging the enemy to put railgun projectiles through your Warlord's face for an easy Slay the Warlord; 6 seems way OP (all my shooty hits on 2s, all my choppy hits on threes because of the LOLz).

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily say AP2 at initiative is against the flow of this edition.  That was one of my biggest complaints about when Dante got hit with Unwieldy, I knew that through power creep that plenty of other characters would get AP2 at initiative.  Skarbrand has it, Abaddon has it, and Eldar and Dark Eldar both have it available through wargear.  There may even be more, but those are the ones I have witnessed.  In retrospect it was silly of GW to make AP2 Unwieldy to begin with, they should have known that their codex writers would constantly go against that to make their army/character "unique".

Most people are surprised when playing and I they tell them that our characters are unwieldy, don't have eternal warrior, or ap2 at initiative (or only 3 for meph) or in the case of meph and DC Tycho and the sang that they can't join units. Comparable to their cost they just don't seem worth it to most of them

[Blindhamster]

-Dark Angels have Sammael using an AP2 striking at init Sword.

-Space Marines have the Burning Blade that any HQ can take, which is an AP2 Striking at Init sword that also adds strength and causes blind.

-Chaos Space Marines have Abaddon with an AP2 striking at init Sword that also grants other rules (not to mention he's a monster), I'm pretty sure one of the Daemon weapons also strikes at Init AP2...

-Daemons have Skarbrand that has an AP2 striking at init sword.

-Tau have Farsight, no idea if he still has an AP2 weapon or not, but it used to be I believe?

-Eldar and Dark Eldar have options for AP2 at init through wargear.

-Necrons have Warscythes, the used to flat out ignore all armoursaves and do bad things to invulnerables.

 

Most armies that don't have AP2 at init weapons instead give the models with AP2 unwieldy Eternal Warrior instead... Or in the case of someone like abaddon he gets AP2 at init, plus Eternal Warrior plus Init 7!

E.g.

-Space Marines Get Lysander and Calgar that both have Eternal Warrior and AP2 weapons, they also have the special shield that grants eternal warrior too, which can be combined with the sword if you want!

-Space Wolves have Logon Grimnar, AP2 Eternal Warrior and he even gets to switch profiles for his weapons if he really cares.

-Chaos have Abaddon as noted, not sure if they have any other Eternal warriors.

 

I don't know the other codeci well enough to list out more...

 

Do any other codeci have characters like us that cannot join units? I don't believe so.

 

-We DO have one character with AP2 at init... Tycho, but he's still a poor close combat character due to average attacks on profile, no extra CCW etc.

-We DO have a character with Eternal Warrior... but he's unable to join units, has a huge profile so is tough to hide and only has an AP3 weapon (which means he's useless at his designated roll..)

 

If we were to just compare our chapter master to the other chapter masters...

 

Dante, Calgar, Azrael and Logon all have the same stat line, except Dante has 1 extra initiative.

They all cost over 200 points.

They all have 2+ saves and 4+ invulnerables.

Calgar has by far the best guns, although Azraels is pretty good too. Dante has a better gun that Logon arguably (unless it isnt just a storm bolter)

Calgar and Logon both have really good special rules. Not so sure about Azrael.

Calgar and Logon have EW.

[Quozzo]

You missed the Deathwing Knights using their "smite FTW mode" The whole unit has AP2 at I attacks for one turn only.

[Leonaides]

And chaos daemon princes are all ap2 as mc's.

[Quixus]

And chaos daemon princes are all ap2 as mc's.

Even with the Black mace. Ouch.

[depthcharge12]

Tycho has AP2 at initiative ;) kind of