++ AUGUSTUS b'RAASS ++ pre-heresy BRASS SCORPION p.247

[Teetengee]

With that arm pose I would want different legs that are in a more relaxed position. It looks like a lull in the fighting type pose with the arms, since it isn't quite a ready position.

[Retributis]

To be honest, when I think of Xarl I think of this mini:

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2011/2/5/181453_tb-Gabriel%20Seth.jpg

 

I love the mini you've made for him but the pose is just... not right :(

[Augustus b'Raass]

Again, some awesome suggestions. Thanks everyone for helping me with this. Xarl has been an absolute nightmare to pose right. He was the last of the six -meaning I had the added pressure of building him in a way that made him 'fit in'  with the rest- and I had no time left to buy bits for him, which left me with posing him with what I had.

 

@Noctem Cultor: I agree and I changed it around completely. 

 

@Biohazard: dude thank you so much. At first I absolutely disagreed with what you suggested, but then I though - what the hell, I'm going to let go of my pre-conceived notion of what he should look like and just do this. So I turned the chain way to his right and reposed his arms, and I am super happy with how he looks right now. Thank you for pushing me to think outside of the box I built around my own head - your suggestions, along with Brother Heinrich's, have been incredibly valuable and I wouldn't have ended up with how he looks without you guys. Thanks!

 

@kizzdougs: Cheers mate - what do you think of him now? Also - did you read my reply to you in a previous post? About taking credit? Hope you know it was all tongue in cheeck. ;)

 

@Teetengee: I changed the arm pose. He's now (in my mind) menacingly approaching the enemy. Do you agree?

 

@Retributis: Well, that guy is slightly too dynamic, but imagine him slightly more relaxed and you pretty much end up with how I built Xarl now, right? :D

 

OK, so here goes. Here he is, how I've built him today. Again, tremendous thanks to all who gave feedback, and especially to Biohazard and Brother Heinrich. Biohazard helped me get the pose right and Heinrich  pushed me to change the sword, cut the evisceratyor of a berzerker I was really happy with and use it on Xarl.

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/Night%20Lords%20WIP/Xarl%204_zpsa6nyudzd.jpg

 

What do you think? Good? Bad? Is this Xarl to you? Feedback of course welcome.

 

Also: notice: the GS is still drying in these pics, so there will be WAY more trophies, skulls, chains and other bits and pieces added to him, so no worries about that.

[KrautScientist]

I like him! Looks like he's about to run at the enemy, animè style, with the chainsword trailing along the floor drawing sparks ;) Seriously, though: suitably brutal and intimidating! And you've really made the most out of those terrible legs!

[Biohazard]

Yes perfect!! Now it works. He looks as if he's about to burst into a sprint at some poor wretch that got in his way. Looking forward to seeing them all completed. You've also inspired me to finally have a go at a true scale marine. I've thought about it for years but seeing your First Claw and Kizzdougs efforts im gonna have a go at a one off model.

[Teetengee]

I would like to see his left hand pronated a wee bit to avoid the guitar strumming pose, but otherwise great.

[Brother Heinrich]

Much better man, though the left hand feels a little off, remember in a big two-handed swing like that, the lower hand is the driving force, pulling the blade across the body, while the higher hand serves as the fulcrum upon which the blade swings and gains momentum. Think about the follow through on baseball bat if you see what i'm saying.

[helterskelter]

Yeah thats pretty much how I saw Executioner

[Noctus Cornix]

Much better than the old chain glaive. 

[Kizzdougs]

Yeah, he looks best in the latest pose, in my opinion. I saw you're last reply and definitely took it as tongue in cheek :)

[Flint13]

Haha, K-Sci summed it up perfectly for me.

 

Giant anime sword pose wins it!

[GhostMalone]

Guts striding forward pose (I know you want to) Edited March 11, 2015 by Kurama

[Black_out]

That chainsword is so perfect....

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Was going to post something then saw Heinrich basically beat me to it. If you've ever wielded an axe or a sledgehammer (both for totally legitimate purposes, I swear) you'll know that the lowermost hand needs to have a much firmer grip on the instrument's shaft. At the moment he looks great, but his hand looks like he's weirdly caressing the butt of the haft. Caressing its butt. Huehuehuehue

 

I think someone needs to do a diorama of Xarl at the moment of inflicting death via headbutt on that Genesis Chapter champion...

[Flint13]

^^ Yeah, I'll back up both Heinrich and Arkhan here. I swing a sledge at a giant tire pretty regularly. 

 

On the one hand, technical accuracy. On the other, butt caresses (fnar fnar)

 

@ Arkhan - To be fair, it was probably the decapitation that killed him, not the copious headbutts. 

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

I haven't read the NL trilogy in a while, I'm sure you're right. The image of Xarl headbutting someone to death is a lot more badass in my mind's eye though.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Brother-Captain Arkhan

[Flint13]

I haven't read the NL trilogy in a while, I'm sure you're right. The image of Xarl nutting someone to death is a lot more badass in my mind's eye though.

Not going to lie, I've never actually, literally snorted a beverage before.

 

Might want to spell check that one real quick :D

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Ah. Sometimes I forget how different American English can be.

 

I'll edit it so as not to corrupt sensitive minds.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Brother-Captain Arkhan

[Surreal Cruelty]

That made my night.

[Black_out]

I swing a sledge at a giant tire pretty regularly.

A heretic of the Crossfit cult I see...... :p

Edited March 12, 2015 by Black_out

[Augustus b'Raass]

@KrautScientist: That's exactly what I'm aiming for. And... wow. No nitpicks from you. I take that as the biggest confirmation that he's now perfect. BTW I found that the biggest hurdle with those legs is the weird thingies on left leg. I cut those all off, which made the direction of his stride much more obvious.

 

@Biohazard: That's cool, man! Totally go for it and take a look at doghouse's tutorial, especially page 10.

 

@Teetengee: Thanks for the suggestion, though the pose doesn't really say guitar player to me. Are you yourself a guitar player or watch rock videos a lot? - that might explain you stance

 

@helterskelter: Cheers! 

 

@Noctus Cornix: I totally agree. That idea was boxed for a future terminator lord with perhaps the murderer's sword or something.

 

@kizzdougs: Good! Was I right though about your timing? - honest question. 

 

@Kurama: Haha. You're doomed if you see this coming for you.

 

@Black_out: It certainly doens't make perfect cuts, I'll tell you that.

 

And then, Brother Heinrich, Flint13, and Brother Chaplain Arkhan (EDIT: it used to read Brother Kage). You bring up an interesting point regarding the apparent loose grip of the left hand, but I do not agree with your pov. Bear in mind two things.

1. He's not swinging. He's just getting into a fighting position. A sword that big is probably held up when not 'in service', for example like this..
   
   To start using it as a sword, you have to bring it lower and to the back - preferably lowered behind either your body or leg, to mask its actual length (five years of Kendo training here) (Yes, there's also the high-held stance that sword masters like Miyamoto Musashi preferred, but that's not the stance I chose). Xarl's pose as it is right now, is exactly the moment after bringing it back and just before the first swing is started. The right hand bears the weight and the general direction, while the left hand is about to guide the swing both in terms of direction and the last 'sweep'.
2. All three of you have given examples of top heavy weapons: baseball bats, sledgehammers, or axes. If you're swinging those weapons I completely agree that you need a tight grip on both hands (indeed the lower hand still is more important than the upper hand in guiding the weapon's arch, but much less so than when wielding a weapon like a sword ). But all those weapons are top heavy, have a center of gravity that is at the end of the 'stick'. As the 'stick' acts as a lever, making the weight work much harder against the swing. By contrast, Xarl's blade, in my mind, would physically behave very differently from the weapons you mentioned: it would behave like a katana or a bokken sword, in that the handle and the blade are equal in weight per unit of length, and thus have a very balanced distribution of weight to it. In effect, the center of gravity is much closer to the hilt of the sword than say an axe. It's about at the center of the entire weapon, or about a third of the length of the blade from the cross guard (that's 50% of the weapon's weight you now do not have to make swing, when compared to your top-heavy weapon examples). As such, the right (upper) hand can bear most of the weight, while the left (lower) hand is there mostly to guide the weapon, so as to create the most efficient cut. The lower hand as such actually benefits from a loose grip - as a tight grip allows for less nuanced movement of the wrist and hand. Now, while Xarl is not a swordsman like Lucius, he in my mind still has an above average skill with the sword - the entire 10th company fears him because of it, and he was able to face off a SM champion (granted, he won that fight more with fierce combat brutality than with his skill with the sword, but still). Hence, the apparent loosened grip/butt caress.

 

Edited March 14, 2015 by Augustus b'Raass

[Midnightmare]

I am going to steer clear of advising you over Xarl, though he is looking good so far. I am however going to congratulate you on Talos! I can't think of any words so I am just going to swear; :cuss me he's awesome!! Massive kudos on such a great conversion and paint job. They are all great but he is tops (so far!)

 

Really stellar work :)

[Kizzdougs]

I started working on them again before I saw you're work (KrautScientist first alerted me to your work), but your project definitely inspired me to get them finished :)

[Dantay VI]

While I could see where the others are coming from, you have given a great and very detailed explanation as to why you posed his hands the way that you did.

 

Massive respect for that. A lot of people would have said, "just because..... it's my model and I wanna" then spat their dummy out the pram.

 

I think your depiction of each of first claw is stupendously good and dripping with flavour, I absolutely love Talos.... All I can say is Ave Dominus Nox!!

[Augustus b'Raass]

Final WIP pics of Xarl. I've adorned him with plenty of skulls-on-chains. given him a mag-locked bolter, and several oath of moment papers.

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/Night%20Lords%20WIP/Xarl%2051_zpsua3eivwp.jpg

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/Night%20Lords%20WIP/Xarl%2052_zpslfncm15u.jpg

 

Hope you like!! Feedback welcome (although there's little I can do to change anything from this point on...

 

Replies!

 

@Midnight Runner: Don't steer clear of the discussion for fear of offending me, mate! I see it more as a brainstorm session with multiple all-valid ideas than as a discussion, and it has led to many awesome models. Thanks for the compliment on Talos - I'm not sure he's my favourite, but he's definitely up there with Xarl and Variel.

 

@kizzdougs: Ah ok! Well, then the boards are truly graced with a convergence in the Talos force

 

@dantay_xv: Cheers mate. I like to explain why I've made the decisions I've made. Not to 'win', but to allow others to see my train of though. I'm not saying any one stance is 'better', but a healthy intellectual to-and-fro certainly aids in pinpointing the reason behind certain developments, and allows others to provide better possible counter arguments. As I've said before many times: it's what makes me go! Ave Dominus Nox, brother!

Edited March 12, 2015 by Augustus b'Raass