Smurfalypse Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Actually, I'd argue that there are a number of problems with the game right now. The current terrain and line of sight rules are a pain, the challenge rules in close combat are exploitable and immersion breaking and the complete opposite of epic moments, the rules for fliers are rather poorly integrated, as are the recent fortification and lord of war/D weapon additions, the allies rules, hull points are a good idea, imo, but have had a devastating effect on the functionality of light to medium armored walkers, etc. There were a ton of interesting ideas thrown into the mix in 6th edition, but almost none of them seem fully baked, and the undercooked result is prone to causing food poisoning. I'm hopeful that a 7th edition might be able to take what's already there and just clean it up so it works right and actually creates the cool, narrative moments on the board that they were clearly aiming for, instead of getting in the way of them. Terrain and LoS issues do not come up in games I play, not sure exactly what you are referring too. Random special terrain that tends to get ignored outright where I play, and when it is used tends to add more hassle and consume more time than its worth in terms of actual gameplay effect. TLOS being a hassle with a number of terrain kits, including GW's not really being designed for it. Entire units shooting through a single window at targets behind, forests that aren't forests because the game treats them as just three trees, that sort of thing. Wacky wound allocation rules, barrage sniping, single ICs with 2+ saves tanking all AP3 and less wounds for an entire massive squad in shooting or melee, that sort of thing. Rules that lend themselves more to immersion breaking exploitation than any sort of narrative building. Hmm, I mean it seems straight forward to me and the people I play with. Literally line of site has never really been an issue in any game I ahve played. ICs tanking wounds was around in 3rd edition, the front modles took the wounds :P Makes sense in a way, when you shoot into a pile of manz the front ones take the hits. Also if someone puts a character in front, just scoot to the side and shoot the side. I do this all the time in tourneys. >Challenges work for me, they are almost a non-issue most games. Though I agree that they could be done without as they are mostly useless. Where as for me they're awkward, and again frequently immersion breaking. Ehh, these are worthless rules I admit. Though I like the idea, just sorta boring. Super Heavies are not that bad to be honest, neither are the D-Weapons. I love super heavies conceptually (as I love allies, challenges, fliers, and the like conceptually), but in game the level to which they invalidate elite or expensive units is just frustrating to me, rather than fun. That is probably more of an issue with particular books choices than any actual issue with a Baneblade (example). Yeah a Baneblade may cost the same as a tricked out full unit of CSM Terminators but it is sooooo much better. Is that a problem with the Baneblade or the CSM Terminators? Light and medium vehicles have suffered this edition mostly due to the changes to CC more than anything. I certainly see Wave Serpents all over the joint whenever I go to a tourney Are wave serpents walkers? I could swear wave serpents were not walkers. But if they are, maybe I'll retract my comment on light to mid armored walkers. I misread obviously, no need to get snyde. Maulerfiends are pretty decent though, not great but certainly playable. Forgefiends not so much :P Hull Points did not end AV12 Walkers, the META where people flood the table with str 6 or 7 did. HPs actually make them last a tad longer usually as it is harder to one shot them. Though they are still a terible investment :P I 100% agree with you that I hope 7th edition really just cleans up this edition to make it all that much better, I have had more fun with this edition (with the CSM Codex that you hate to much) than I have in any other edition. Your experience is different than mine then. I've found actual games played in this edition to be slow and awkward (I spend more time setting up, deploying, looking up wacky terrain rules, and cleaning up after the game than I do actually playing, which dramatically saps my fun), full of moments that break immersion rather than building stories, and while most of my personal frustration is due to our codex and not the rules as a whole, the rules as a whole haven't helped. Obviously my experience has been different, though you sound more frustated with the CSM Codex than the edition itself. Your complaints against this edition are very small and very picky. Just as an example, I play in local RTTs and NOVAs and such, I NEVER do not finish my games before turn 5. Most games I get to turn 7 by the 2.5 hour mark. Vs my friends and such we finish 1850pt games in 1.5 hours sometimes, this includes us BSing around from time to time to talk :cuss or whatever :P If there is a time issue with your games, you should probably start by looking at yourself or the people you play this (this is NOT meant as a slight, just saying that it is very reasonable to finish a game quickly). I completely understand the issue with the Codex man, I am at the point that if our next one is on par with the last two I am probably done myself. I win my games (you can check torrent of fire and see my record if you wish. Joseph Harmon) but it is just so darned bland. Like most I got into CSM because they were "THE" great enemy, I quickly fell in love with Word Bearers (I haz a thing for Chaplains) and now that is all basically gone. Makes me want to cry :*( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I just bought the digital copy of WDW, here's the reason why the Crimson Slaughter get possessed, from Jeremy Vetock himself, who wrote it: They are wracked by mutation, and eventually corrupted into the Chaos Space Marines we know now -- the Crimson Slaughter. The voices that haunted them can no longer be silenced except by the most obscene levels of carnage, and wherever they go they are presaged by a bow wave of warp-spawned horror. Milk curdles, the skies darken... they are quite literally haunted by the power of the Dark Gods. It also states that there are "a series of additions which alters Codex: Chaos Space Marines to give you a Crimson Slaughter warband. Some of the changes are more visible than others" but no details are given beyond Possessed as Troops so what that entails, if anything, is anyone's guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I, for one am already happy with this Codex: Word Be- I mean, Crimson Slaughter, what with the Possessed as Troops and all. Something I've been wanting for a very long time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 The thing I'm not looking forward to is the inflated price of Possessed. $66 for a single unit of 10 :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Obviously my experience has been different, though you sound more frustated with the CSM Codex than the edition itself. Your complaints against this edition are very small and very picky.Picky, perhaps, but I wouldn't call them small, as they touch on basically every single aspect of 6e that makes it different from what came before. All are ideas I like - more interesting scenarios, fliers, challenges, super-heavies, etc, but in every single case the implementation just rubs me the wrong way, leaving me constantly distracted and annoyed when I play. It's not enough that I outright dislike the game, I still like 40k, but it is enough to make this my least favorite version of the game, at least among those that I've played (tail end of 2e on). You are right that the thing that most annoys me is our current codex, though. In practice, I actually had more fun with the 4e book, though I found it less tolerable in 6e than it was in 5e or 4e, at least I could still make effective use of my terminators, and my undivided lord was considerably more threatening. I do appreciate having cultists back, my black legion had been missing them since 3.5 took them away, but otherwise.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Well, it is up for preorder.http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Crimson-Slaughter.htmlhttp://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2380172ahttp://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2380175aApparently the special limited edition cover is heat-reactive, so ghost faces show up when you hold it. Actually looks pretty well done. In the digital preview, Kranon is listed as wearing/using 3 named items (sword, horns, heart/chestplate-thingy) so he may actually be in there as a character. Or else they finally confirm that you can take multiple relics on a single character. They also have for preorder a posessed collection (that includes a Dark Apostle for some reason, must not be selling), a Crimson slaughter collection (attack force + 1 more squad w/ rhino, a Land raider, 3 bikers and 2 hellbrutes), and a supplement + hellbrute collection. No savings over the respective components, as far as I can tell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Wait, this is Jeremy Vetock's project? Why didn't you say so? Now I'm interested in seeing what's inside. Behold, the other side of the "anonymous author" change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Wait, this is Jeremy Vetock's project? Why didn't you say so? Now I'm interested in seeing what's inside. Behold, the other side of the "anonymous author" change. Yes according to WDW Jeremy Vetock wrote it. The article talking about them specifically says: Jeremy Vetock has worked on numerous Codexes and army books, Crimson Slaughter being his latest masterpiece - a task he found himself warming more and more towards the further into their lore he delved. However the article indicates that Simon Grant has written the actual rules. The article is written like a novel in present tense, with things such as "says Jeremy. He's talking through the internet, his voice booming eerily into the White Dwarf bunker." so it's kind of hard to glean some things. Jeremy indicates that "The hope is that hobbyists who are excited about the Crimson Slaughter will be able to place an army on the tabletop that looks and feels like they do in the background." Again though that could just be GW-speak. The funny part is that I remember Jeremy Vetock from the old days (I think he was in charge of GW US?) and even once got a signed letter from him because when I was like 14 years old I took part in the WHFB worldwide campaign (Battle for Antioc) and the FLGS reported the battle was a draw instead of a win for the evil side (which I was a part of) because they were too tired to count up the VPs (we had a huge like 5v5 battle that lasted most of an entire day). I wrote in a letter saying what had happened so they could count the battle properly for the campaign, and Jeremy sent me back a signed letter thanking me for the update. At least I'm pretty sure it's the same guy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Minus the Fiend, my Red Corsairs are EXACTLY the Crimson Slaughter Collection, plus 2 tactical squads in progress (1 csm squad, 1 SM squad-old box with extra plasma gun and heavy bolter options, plus a Havok 3 missile launcher 1 lascannon team)...plus 2 bikes, one of which an Axelord rides... Plus a Defiler, the DV Meltabrute 18 actual Khorne Beserkers, and 16 BP/CCW CSM that are Khorne beserkers. Plus another unit of terminators, a squad of 3 with combi plasmas and 3 converted oblits (2 terminators, 1 from abaddon) 5 Havoks with 4 autocannons. Plus "Khârn", plus PA Finecast sorcerer, plus a AC/HBs Predator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgaolol Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 In the Black Library product page there's a picture of a painted Kranon model that lists what looks to be some wargear, not sure if that means there'll be actual rules for them:Slaughterer's HornsDaemonheartSigil of CorruptionPlasma Pistol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 As said in the other thread, i' actually getting excited about thier fluff. My Iron Warriors are a lot more corrupted then the ''norm'', openly favouring Khorne. But since the juggerlord is just a puppet (unknown) of Be'lakor, i can easily see them going even more mental to get power. We'll see. Hope the rules are any good :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Rules aside, there's something to be said about 'haunted' Chaos Space Marines. Not just the usual Khorne bat :cuss crazy Marines. I for one am for expanding the lore. And not just resting on the old Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 so this really is basically reading as supplement Word Bearers, Just by another name. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Rules aside, there's something to be said about 'haunted' Chaos Space Marines. Not just the usual Khorne bat :cuss crazy Marines. I for one am for expanding the lore. And not just resting on the old Legions. Yes, its certainly a mutually exclusive position. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/AlternativeBL/xlarge/2014-03-05%2016.24.11.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 wonder what the daemon heart does? Well atleast its a different way to play, it might not be the best but if the relics and warlord traits aren't bad we won't be any worse of than we were with black legion, regardless of whose book it is. And Word Bearers can finally run lists with possessed as troops if they want Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Interesting (and purely speculative) thought. Someone observed that the Crimson Slaughter release, along with the latest Chaos releases, appears to be a re-branding [away from the Black Legion as the Chaos Space Marines poster boys]. What if that is indeed the case, but with the re-branding being intended to show more recent traitors as the focus of the "warband" construct with later work planned to expand upon the original traitor legions under the "legion" construct? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Rebranding? I can certainly conceive of GW to make such a choice, as short sighted as I believe it to be. Leaving Legions for later? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice? Nay. There isnt enough salt in the oceans to believe that until it is in my hands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Interesting development. I didn't expect the Crimson Slaughter to become the new face of Chaos Marines. Almost all the pictures for the CSM products have been redone to feature them. I'm wondering if this will be the new trend. Kind of cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/AlternativeBL/xlarge/2014-03-05 16.24.11.pngoooh! I am rather excited to find out what those new artifacts do. Now that he has a Sigil instead of the Aura of Dark Glory, he got an upgrade on his Ward save. Though, I guess since it is named Sigil of corruption, no one else in your list can now have one. hmmm Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3613999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 its far more likely that they've just given him relics and wargear, as in the wargear sigil of corruption. I don't think he'll be a named character Gatan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3614008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/AlternativeBL/xlarge/2014-03-05 16.24.11.pngoooh! I am rather excited to find out what those new artifacts do. Now that he has a Sigil instead of the Aura of Dark Glory, he got an upgrade on his Ward save. Though, I guess since it is named Sigil of corruption, no one else in your list can now have one. hmmm Why would no one else be able to take one?... Its not an Artifact, its a Special issue wargear, with the Bikes, Jump Packs etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3614014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Um, no. Krannon having a sigil doesn't prevent anyone else from having one any more than him having a plasma pistol would prevent you from giving such to your champions. the sigil isn't an artifact, it's not limited to one an... I've already been ninja'd, haven't I? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3614015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Looking at one of the pictures from the LImited Edition, it looks like the codex has a two-page spread showing how (and maybe why?) they went from looking like regular Marines to the typical corrupted, baroque Chaos Marines. Definitely interested in this now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3614026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 So I just noticed that most (nearly all) of the pictures of Chaos Space Marines on GW's website now feature marines and vehicles in the colour-scheme of Crimson Slaughter. What the h*ll is going on? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/14/#findComment-3614050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.