Kol Saresk Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I could have sworn the negativity thread had gotten locked down. Guess not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3608951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I could have sworn the negativity thread had gotten locked down. Guess not. Negativity is the fuel of the B&C chaos forums, you should know that! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3608958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Actually I think the fact that BnC has reacted this way is more telling. This forum usually has a really good attitude, sure we had the complaint thread but no one here is what I'd call a whiner. I mean if we were we wouldn't still be here. Therefore the fact that teh vast majority is scratching their head and asking WTH just happened, its kinda telling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3608963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I could have sworn the negativity thread had gotten locked down. Guess not. I took a month and a half off because I was so frustrated with GW, and this is where we end up... I actually went to the rant thread, but it was locked in January it seems, and despite the mods, well...i'm not ranting so much as I am confused and dismayed over this. They so so so so so clearly dont care about what the vocal minority, and I dont argue that I am in the majority here despite forum polls to the contrary I can accept we are a subset, but Crimson Slaughter? Simply give us what we want, and o.m.f.g the rivers will run with our cash. I had $2000 :cussing dollars to drop this weekend at a gaming convention if I so desired. I simply couldnt be :cussing bothered at this point with GW, I just cant. I cant stomach the thought of putting another check mark under 'Chaos Space Marines X' for some :cussing bean counter. FW will continue to get money here and there because they at least pay lip service to the old ways, to the fluff I have read for almost 20 years (rofl!!!!) but GW? Crimson bloody Slaughter??? Will they get DROP PODS for Khornes sake???? Is that worth a codex? I hate that I even care so much honestly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3608974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Wade Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I don't like GWs new releases, mainly LotD, Imperial Knights, this Crimson Slaughter, dataslates with one unit or formation e.t.c. I would rather have one combined expansion book (like Imperial Armor Apocalypse) with new units and rules for all armies rather than dozen small books with 2 pages of rules, a few pages with fluff and the rest filled with pictures and rulebook USR and weapon profiles. Supplements are a little better because there a lot of fluff, but still not worthy to be a separate release. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3608983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 WOW Holy :cuss, GW is actually doing it, full codex http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/03/40k-breaking-helbrute-codex-crimson.html ??? What the actual :cuss Edit: is that a plastic plague marine in the bottom right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3608988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Gratan, what are you talking about? Why would they be conused? There are as much info on the Crimson Slaughter already in the CSM codex. Pictures in the 'eavy Metal section include 2 marines, 1 termie and 1 helbrute. They have an info-blurb as big as the legions and larger renegade chapters do and there are plenty of art with reddish marines in it as well... Why would any new player get confused by that? I don't get it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3608996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Gratan, what are you talking about? Why would they be conused? There are as much info on the Crimson Slaughter already in the CSM codex. Pictures in the 'eavy Metal section include 2 marines, 1 termie and 1 helbrute. They have an info-blurb as big as the legions and larger renegade chapters do and there are plenty of art with reddish marines in it as well... Why would any new player get confused by that? I don't get it... Not to mention a full-blown novel and audiobook devoted just to them. Well, specifically them and the Dark Angels they fought with. But yeah theyve been extensively covered and are pretty much the new poster boys Chaos. Especially since they have an entire Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 WOW Holy :cuss, GW is actually doing it, full codex http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/03/40k-breaking-helbrute-codex-crimson.html ??? What the actual :cuss Edit: is that a plastic plague marine in the bottom right? Well I am confused. A codex then. And apparently next week we are getting another release, so what that could be? Cultists? Havocs? Also another oddity: If strike force contains all miniatures it is rumored to contain, it is cheaper than buying miniatures separately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 the strike force is easy, Nids got the same thing with the swarm box Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 the strike force is easy, Nids got the same thing with the swarm boxyeah but in practice GW bundles are usually* the same price as everything put together, not cheaper. Cheaper is new. And weird. *key word Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 or what is old come again. Well its a codex, not the one we wanted and certainly not what was expected, but I guess theres not much to do but hold on and enjoy the ride, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Well right now no matter what GW does people will be unhappy . If they don't make changes and add new ways to play people will hate the codex . If they make apostols , warpsmiths , talons/possessed etc playable/wanted[by adding bike options to them] people will hate on GW asking why that hasn't been done when two other chaos dex came out . A lose/lose situation. I wonder which codex is going to be sold to new people though , at first the focus is going to be on the new one , but what about 6-12 months in to the future. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Excessus, on 04 Mar 2014 - 01:41, said: Gratan, what are you talking about? Why would they be conused? There are as much info on the Crimson Slaughter already in the CSM codex. Pictures in the 'eavy Metal section include 2 marines, 1 termie and 1 helbrute. They have an info-blurb as big as the legions and larger renegade chapters do and there are plenty of art with reddish marines in it as well... Why would any new player get confused by that? I don't get it... In the Dark Vengeance set you learn about the Crimson Slaughter, you are given several named characters, their motivations and goals. You get a novella with even more information. The rules given are very basic, just enough to learn the game but not enough to really get in the way. Once you graduate to the full Codex, Crimson Slaughter becomes a minority lost within the scope of all the previous CSM fluff. By my count in the CSM Codex you have two paragraph blurb on the Crimson Slaughter, and a total of 4 pictures (Lord, Chosen, Terminator, and Helbrute); that's it. None of the named characters are there (not that they cant be created with the basic models in the army list), and the Crimson Slaughter sinks to the bottom. I know if I were a kid, who had gotten the set, the novella, and then the codex, I would have expected to see what I had gained in the Starter would have carried on into the main game. I would have been disappointed to find very little mention in the fluff and no real rules support. I would have been disappointed in my purchase (or gift), as it was in essence a throwaway product. Yes, I could use the minis for any CSM army, but they wouldn't truly be Crimson Slaughter anymore... Am I expressing myself well? I have trouble sometimes getting my points across and expressing what I mean, so bare with me. Sorry if I am unclear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Excessus, on 04 Mar 2014 - 01:41, said: Gratan, what are you talking about? Why would they be conused? There are as much info on the Crimson Slaughter already in the CSM codex. Pictures in the 'eavy Metal section include 2 marines, 1 termie and 1 helbrute. They have an info-blurb as big as the legions and larger renegade chapters do and there are plenty of art with reddish marines in it as well... Why would any new player get confused by that? I don't get it... In the Dark Vengeance set you learn about the Crimson Slaughter, you are given several named characters, their motivations and goals. You get a novella with even more information. The rules given are very basic, just enough to learn the game but not enough to really get in the way. Once you graduate to the full Codex, Crimson Slaughter becomes a minority lost within the scope of all the previous CSM fluff. By my count in the CSM Codex you have two paragraph blurb on the Crimson Slaughter, and a total of 4 pictures (Lord, Chosen, Terminator, and Helbrute); that's it. None of the named characters are there (not that they cant be created with the basic models in the army list), and the Crimson Slaughter sinks to the bottom. I know if I were a kid, who had gotten the set, the novella, and then the codex, I would have expected to see what I had gained in the Starter would have carried on into the main game. I would have been disappointed to find very little mention in the fluff and no real rules support. I would have been disappointed in my purchase (or gift), as it was in essence a throwaway product. Yes, I could use the minis for any CSM army, but they wouldn't truly be Crimson Slaughter anymore... Am I expressing myself well? I have trouble sometimes getting my points across and expressing what I mean, so bare with me. Sorry if I am unclear. to be fair Gatan, 2 paragraphs is a lot for a codex where many warbands are merely a colour scheme, maybe a timeline point if they are lucky. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Excessus, on 04 Mar 2014 - 01:41, said: Gratan, what are you talking about? Why would they be conused? There are as much info on the Crimson Slaughter already in the CSM codex. Pictures in the 'eavy Metal section include 2 marines, 1 termie and 1 helbrute. They have an info-blurb as big as the legions and larger renegade chapters do and there are plenty of art with reddish marines in it as well... Why would any new player get confused by that? I don't get it... In the Dark Vengeance set you learn about the Crimson Slaughter, you are given several named characters, their motivations and goals. You get a novella with even more information. The rules given are very basic, just enough to learn the game but not enough to really get in the way. Once you graduate to the full Codex, Crimson Slaughter becomes a minority lost within the scope of all the previous CSM fluff. By my count in the CSM Codex you have two paragraph blurb on the Crimson Slaughter, and a total of 4 pictures (Lord, Chosen, Terminator, and Helbrute); that's it. None of the named characters are there (not that they cant be created with the basic models in the army list), and the Crimson Slaughter sinks to the bottom. I know if I were a kid, who had gotten the set, the novella, and then the codex, I would have expected to see what I had gained in the Starter would have carried on into the main game. I would have been disappointed to find very little mention in the fluff and no real rules support. I would have been disappointed in my purchase (or gift), as it was in essence a throwaway product. Yes, I could use the minis for any CSM army, but they wouldn't truly be Crimson Slaughter anymore... Am I expressing myself well? I have trouble sometimes getting my points across and expressing what I mean, so bare with me. Sorry if I am unclear. to be fair Gatan, 2 paragraphs is a lot for a codex where many warbands are merely a colour scheme, maybe a timeline point if they are lucky. I know. Most of the other Renegades only get a single Paragraph, the Red Corsairs one of them. However, the Red Corsairs also get a named character with Huron. Lord Kranon only appears in the DV set. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Gratan, yes they get as much attention as anybody else, which is rather odd because in the 40k fluff they are still very very very very very very minor players! Dark Angels on the other hand, the other part of the starter kit, are rather big players. They still run around with their whole darn legion and mess things up (sneakily disguised as successor chapters), despite the wishes of terra. They are legion #1, they have interesting and fascinating backstories and fluff going back almost 20 years or so. Yes, they have a codex of their own and deserve it... A minor warband that failed to do anything spectacular or awe-inspiring with a miniscule playerbase...I think The Purge, Flawless Host and especially Red Corsairs have way more players than them, but why no new codex for them? Hmm? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 even the legions are lucky to get more than a paragraph or two, its just the nature of codexes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Thats an interesting arguement to be made there. Wanting us to reboot the entire focus of the book for what DID amount to a splash throw away release. Another forum vacation is in order... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Believe us gatan, we're happy for you, this is great and we expect you to damn well live up to it But we are bitter with GW's treatment of the majority of chaos fans Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Oh, don't get me wrong, I completely understand the bitter... I was just trying to express that this should have come much earlier to support the DV sets is all. I am still waiting for plastic 1kSons, full army list and everything... I've wanted a 1kSons army since I first got into 40k and Rogue Trader and the two Chaos Books... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I am still waiting for plastic 1kSons, full army list and everything... I've wanted a 1kSons army since I first got into 40k and Rogue Trader and the two Chaos Books... Oh you are not alone on that one, but I doubt it will ever happen... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Believe us gatan, we're happy for you, this is great and we expect you to damn well live up to it But we are bitter with GW's treatment of the majority of chaos fans Not me feeling good because others are happy seems un natural to me . On the other hand , wonder what the rules for dreads are going to be in the book and if they will share the ally matrix csm/BL have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeychunks Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 So on a slightly more positive note, is there a way that this could actually turn out to be a nice treat for CSM players? Yes I know we wanted Legions as the number-one thing but we have an extensive wishlist and this might scratch a couple of itches if GW knows what they are doing. Not bloody likely given their recent track record. a) Introduction of Drop Pods. As a recently-turned Chapter, it could happen. b) The Veterans-Skills supplement that was rumoured. Unlikely since they are newly turned, but then again the Black Legion are apparently all newbies and Veterans at the same time, so fluff clearly means nothing to the content of a supplement. c) Usable Helbrutes. Unlikely since there is a lot of work needed to fix them, far more likely something like them existing as Heavy Supports as well. d) It's a Khornate warband, so maybe something to make mono-God a good idea? Of course the alternate is introducing a unit of 6 Chosen special characters with mismatched weapons and bloated costs, to match the special character Helbrute and a fancy Helmet artefact for your Lords. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 After the knee jerk reactions and everything are over, we will still be finding ways to create models for legions we love and want to put on the table top. Personally, I'm wondering how much the datasheets and digital codex are actually used. Black Legion still doesn't seem to show up on the threads more than it used to. Even though they got the digi treatment. Same with IF and IH. I do however find it amusing that FW can give each Legion a different feel with initially two pages of minor alternatives. Even this would give mist Chaos players something to smile about. Yes , Imperial get their new toys but we can get away with all manner of alterations to our models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287502-codex-crimson-slaughter-yup-gw-really-hates-us/page/4/#findComment-3609144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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