codex crimson slaughter.... yup, GW really hates us.

[Monkeychunks]

So on a slightly more positive note, is there a way that this could actually turn out to be a nice treat for CSM players? Yes I know we wanted Legions as the number-one thing but we have an extensive wishlist and this might scratch a couple of itches if GW knows what they are doing. Not bloody likely given their recent track record.

 

 

a) Introduction of Drop Pods. As a recently-turned Chapter, it could happen.

b) The Veterans-Skills supplement that was rumoured. Unlikely since they are newly turned, but then again the Black Legion are apparently all newbies and Veterans at the same time, so fluff clearly means nothing to the content of a supplement.

c) Usable Helbrutes. Unlikely since there is a lot of work needed to fix them, far more likely something like them existing as Heavy Supports as well.

d) It's a Khornate warband, so maybe something to make mono-God a good idea?

 

Of course the alternate is introducing a unit of 6 Chosen special characters with mismatched weapons and bloated costs, to match the special character Helbrute and a fancy Helmet artefact for your Lords.

[Forté]

After the knee jerk reactions and everything are over, we will still be finding ways to create models for legions we love and want to put on the table top.

 

Personally, I'm wondering how much the datasheets and digital codex are actually used. Black Legion still doesn't seem to show up on the threads more than it used to. Even though they got the digi treatment. Same with IF and IH.

 

I do however find it amusing that FW can give each Legion a different feel with initially two pages of minor alternatives. Even this would give mist Chaos players something to smile about.

 

Yes , Imperial get their new toys but we can get away with all manner of alterations to our models.

[the jeske]

a) Introduction of Drop Pods. As a recently-turned Chapter, it could happen.

nope.

The Veterans-Skills supplement that was rumoured. Unlikely since they

are newly turned, but then again the Black Legion are apparently all

newbies and Veterans at the same time, so fluff clearly means nothing to

the content of a supplement.

who knows , only those who seen the dex.

c) Usable Helbrutes. Unlikely since

there is a lot of work needed to fix them, far more likely something

like them existing as Heavy Supports as well.

no matter what they do with the dreads , people who have good dreads aren't using them anymore and ours were hardly in ye old csm codex.

d) It's a Khornate warband, so maybe something to make mono-God a good idea?

mono god assault army in a ++2 / FMC/shoting edition , well am not saying it is not possible , but it would be hard to pull off with 2 pages of rules [other then giving each CS csm 2 wounds and a 12" charge].

[Hellrender]

The crimson slaughter dex is called Codex, and costs as much as the chaos space marine codex.

 

I'm actually rather curious as to where they are going with this. Normally the inside of the dex has a bit on how to field specific armies with the dex, and that will define what the CS dex is supposed to represent.

 

Other than that, i'm curious to what they are thinking with making a Crimson Slaughter dex, and not just a new chaos space marine codex. If they want Chaos Space Marines to be about the legions, and CS for renegades, than i really do hope not that CS will suddenly get a much nicer codex (one with options for various balanced lists.. as opposed 2 helldrakes or go home). In that case, i hope that CS can be used for any chaos army, incl Legions.

 

We'll see. time will tell. 

 

PS

 

The hellbrute on the WD cover actually didnt look half bad!

[Araziel]

Just seen this over on bols. http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/03/40k-breaking-helbrute-codex-crimson.html

 

Some new stuff coming our way confirmed, at any rate.

[Zhukov]

What on earth is this giant whinefest. It makes rationally no sense:

 

Just because GW releases this, doesn't mean it took up the place of a Legion codex or whatever. We don't know if this means other Chaos releases are delayed or not. Therefore you (and me), Chaos players, probably don't lose anything with this release.

 

So you are angry there are no Legion codexes yet? Like we didn't know that already, you guys whine about this for years straight, but that has very very little to do with this release.

 

I view this release as simply a potential bonus. Does it turn out to be rubbish? No problem, nothing lost. It turns out to be actually good or at least usefull? Great

[Gratan]

My one concern with the Crimson Slaughter Codex is will I still be able to use my Raptors, Heldrake, and Forgefiend.

[Disciple of Fulgrim]

Like Hellrender, I'm curious - is this really going to be a new Codex (as it says on BoLS) or just another Codex Supplement?

 

The former really doesn't make much sense to me, but I don't see anyone referring to this as the "Crimson Slaughter Supplement."  A lot of the comments also sound like folks are expecting a new, fully developed codex.  The BoLS link references a WD product list - does anyone know how the other supplements were referred to in WD?  Anything else out there to make us think this will be more than another supplement?    

[Dosjetka]

What on earth is this giant whinefest. It makes rationally no sense:

 

Just because GW releases this, doesn't mean it took up the place of a Legion codex or whatever. We don't know if this means other Chaos releases are delayed or not. Therefore you (and me), Chaos players, probably don't lose anything with this release.

 

So you are angry there are no Legion codexes yet? Like we didn't know that already, you guys whine about this for years straight, but that has very very little to do with this release.

 

I view this release as simply a potential bonus. Does it turn out to be rubbish? No problem, nothing lost. It turns out to be actually good or at least usefull? Great

 

+1

 

Besides, as A D-B (among others) has mentioned at least a few times, the Legions of old are dead. The only ones that persist are the Black Legion (who've got their own supplement) and the Word Bearers (who might get one in the near future). The others are broken and scattered. So why would you need Legion rules/Codecies? If you want to play Space Marine Legions, you've got Forge World's excellent Horus Heresy books which gives rules for all of them.

 

TL;DR: The Legions aren't going to get any rules outside of the FW HH books, accept it, please.

[Kythnos]

Like Hellrender, I'm curious - is this really going to be a new Codex (as it says on BoLS) or just another Codex Supplement?

 

The former really doesn't make much sense to me, but I don't see anyone referring to this as the "Crimson Slaughter Supplement."  A lot of the comments also sound like folks are expecting a new, fully developed codex.  The BoLS link references a WD product list - does anyone know how the other supplements were referred to in WD?  Anything else out there to make us think this will be more than another supplement?    

 

It might just be a new label for supplements, as apparently some of them had difficulties to be accepted due to their different name.

[totgeboren]

TL;DR: The Legions aren't going to get any rules outside of the FW HH books, accept it, please.

You are right in that we probably should accept it. However, it just makes no sense seeing as how something like 90% of all the CSM logs I have seen have been about either God-themed warbands (who definitely want legion supplements, even if they themselves don't field the characteristic God-themed legion in question), or Legion-themed warbands who of course want legion supplements.

 

Or to be honest, what people want seem to be something similar to Chapter Tactics.

 

Sure, GW might have decided that the legions are dead (except the loyalist ones of course, since most of the decendants of loyalist legions follow the CA instead of their primarchs teachings they should of course get legion rules). However, even if GW says that the traitor legions are as dead and gone as the Squats, if 90% of the player base still play with a legion theme, would it not make sense to cash in on that, instead or releasing stuff very few want?

 

GW staff can only produce a finite quantity of stuff, so why not stuff that their customers want instead of stuff they don't want?

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

 

What on earth is this giant whinefest. It makes rationally no sense:

 

Just because GW releases this, doesn't mean it took up the place of a Legion codex or whatever. We don't know if this means other Chaos releases are delayed or not. Therefore you (and me), Chaos players, probably don't lose anything with this release.

 

So you are angry there are no Legion codexes yet? Like we didn't know that already, you guys whine about this for years straight, but that has very very little to do with this release.

 

I view this release as simply a potential bonus. Does it turn out to be rubbish? No problem, nothing lost. It turns out to be actually good or at least usefull? Great

 

+1

 

Besides, as A D-B (among others) has mentioned at least a few times, the Legions of old are dead. The only ones that persist are the Black Legion (who've got their own supplement) and the Word Bearers (who might get one in the near future). The others are broken and scattered. So why would you need Legion rules/Codecies? If you want to play Space Marine Legions, you've got Forge World's excellent Horus Heresy books which gives rules for all of them.

 

TL;DR: The Legions aren't going to get any rules outside of the FW HH books, accept it, please.

 

 

What on earth is this giant whinefest. It makes rationally no sense:

 

Just because GW releases this, doesn't mean it took up the place of a Legion codex or whatever. We don't know if this means other Chaos releases are delayed or not. Therefore you (and me), Chaos players, probably don't lose anything with this release.

 

So you are angry there are no Legion codexes yet? Like we didn't know that already, you guys whine about this for years straight, but that has very very little to do with this release.

 

I view this release as simply a potential bonus. Does it turn out to be rubbish? No problem, nothing lost. It turns out to be actually good or at least usefull? Great

 

+1

 

Besides, as A D-B (among others) has mentioned at least a few times, the Legions of old are dead. The only ones that persist are the Black Legion (who've got their own supplement) and the Word Bearers (who might get one in the near future). The others are broken and scattered. So why would you need Legion rules/Codecies? If you want to play Space Marine Legions, you've got Forge World's excellent Horus Heresy books which gives rules for all of them.

 

TL;DR: The Legions aren't going to get any rules outside of the FW HH books, accept it, please.

So are the loyalist legions, yet we see rules for their successor chapters, so the "legions are dead" excuse does not work, as we still get splinters, warbands and fragments of the legions that cna be as big if not bigger then the loyalist chapters.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

TL;DR: The Legions aren't going to get any rules outside of the FW HH books, accept it, please.

You are right in that we probably should accept it. However, it just makes no sense seeing as how something like 90% of all the CSM logs I have seen have been about either God-themed warbands (who definitely want legion supplements, even if they themselves don't field the characteristic God-themed legion in question), or Legion-themed warbands who of course want legion supplements.

 

Or to be honest, what people want seem to be something similar to Chapter Tactics.

 

Sure, GW might have decided that the legions are dead (except the loyalist ones of course, since most of the decendants of loyalist legions follow the CA instead of their primarchs teachings they should of course get legion rules). However, even if GW says that the traitor legions are as dead and gone as the Squats, if 90% of the player base still play with a legion theme, would it not make sense to cash in on that, instead or releasing stuff very few want?

 

GW staff can only produce a finite quantity of stuff, so why not stuff that their customers want instead of stuff they don't want?

And if this turns out to be a mono-god Codex with Mono-god rules, then how would it not be what the Chaos community asked for?

[Disciple of Fulgrim]

Now that would explain how/why this could be a true codex vice just another supplement - but that would be way, way too good to be true!  (I think some players' heads would explode if that truly came to pass, but Khorne would probably be okay with that.)

[totgeboren]

And if this turns out to be a mono-god Codex with Mono-god rules, then how would it not be what the Chaos community asked for?

I guess I'm just way too jaded to dare get my hopes up. If it is a Khorne-themed book, I believe it will be for the typical recent renegade Khorne warbands lead by Typhus with lots of PM as troops and Heldrakes for support.

 

But you could be right, and it could a book for Khorne-themed warbands, be they old or new. It could even include rules for drop pods! It could include updated rules for Helbrutes! It could remove/fix the Champion of Chaos rule! It could be really good for all I know.

 

But I think I will be disappointed if I dare to hope that even one of the myriad of problems with the CSM codex will be fixed by this new book.

Hopefully you are right though, and it will be fun addition to w40k.

[Tenebris]

I play Thousand Sons and you know... I love them even if I have to field only two MSU and bankroll a lot of daemons to make it workable. I love Chaos because I love the whole tragedy of the fall, the descent of angels, the fall of the chosen, the death... of HOPE! To be Chaos is to be a major player in the 40k background, to be the beginning and the end, the first sin and the last folly, and to be Chaos truth be told is to BE a legion of old, to have that in your blood in your experience and above all in your wicked soul. You can be divided in a myriad of warbands but you are still a son of Mortarion, of Kurze, of Lorgar and so on... as long as you breath the legion lives.

 

While I applaud, I really do, any novelty for chaos, every tiny scrap of new lore and plastic I also value a clear sense of direction. GW as a company will produce a product not even remotely related to the wishes of the community, and we of Chaos are only so humble to ask only one thing, to play the legions of old and to have if that is viable a chance on tabletop, playing fluff armies, for hands down with Chaos is all about fluff, you don't play it for game mechanics.

 

Now I will pass my judgement when I will have the codex in hand, at best it will provide me with an additional HQ and some funny unit or rule, at worse, more background to read. Yet in an increasingly hostile meta to our codex and alignment it is too much to hope for some competitive stuff.

 

I can stomach the Knigths fiasco (forcing us to bankroll FW) and I can even stomach the "repacking", what I cannot stomach is being played for a fool...and we of Chaos are fools as it seems, foolish to love a faction so detested and ill-interpreted by GW. We simply exist so that the loyalist can play heroes at our expense.  

[Beachymike123]

maybe, just maybe, C:CS is being named in the same way as 2nd ed's C:Ultramarines - ie it will also contain rules for recently turned warbands, although i accept it could be based around just khorne or unmarked units due to the CS heavy influence. i've got some renegades in my army that aren't IW, maybe i'll just have to invest in a few more renegades and have a small detachment of BB allies (if they'll be that, being recently turned they could just be AoC to main dex CSM). the thing is i don't HAVE to use the models as CS, just their rules and stats, which i'm fine with. 

maybe there'll be more restrictions to represent the fact they're only recently turned - maybe only certain units will get DPs, restrict daemon engines to 0-2, only the mark of khorne or unaligned allowed etc. it could work i think. maybe as the BL are the traitor legion poster boys, the CS might become/have become the renegade chapter poster boys. 

[Xenith]

What on earth is this giant whinefest. It makes rationally no sense:

 

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

 

Now that it seems to be an actual codex as opposed to a supplement (fingers crossed) I am hopeful that we may see some interesting options.

 

Allowing Chaos drop pods would be an easy and very very fast money maker for them. Suddenly everyone buys the £30 book and a £22.50 drop pod.

 

They can't be adding any more units, so possibly force org shifts (Berzerkers as troops without the Lord tax, like Raukaan/dreads, Black/Chosen?), or special rules for new units.

[minigun762]

Chaos Drop Pods would be a very acceptable consolation prize.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

 

What on earth is this giant whinefest. It makes rationally no sense:

 

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

 

Now that it seems to be an actual codex as opposed to a supplement (fingers crossed) I am hopeful that we may see some interesting options.

 

Allowing Chaos drop pods would be an easy and very very fast money maker for them. Suddenly everyone buys the £30 book and a £22.50 drop pod.

 

They can't be adding any more units, so possibly force org shifts (Berzerkers as troops without the Lord tax, like Raukaan/dreads, Black/Chosen?), or special rules for new units.

 

As a player who started off with Khorne I would like this very much, as it would give my boys in red some table time that they have been sorely lacking in 6th edition.

[Deadman Wade]

 

What on earth is this giant whinefest. It makes rationally no sense:

 

Just because GW releases this, doesn't mean it took up the place of a Legion codex or whatever. We don't know if this means other Chaos releases are delayed or not. Therefore you (and me), Chaos players, probably don't lose anything with this release.

 

So you are angry there are no Legion codexes yet? Like we didn't know that already, you guys whine about this for years straight, but that has very very little to do with this release.

 

I view this release as simply a potential bonus. Does it turn out to be rubbish? No problem, nothing lost. It turns out to be actually good or at least usefull? Great

 

+1

 

Besides, as A D-B (among others) has mentioned at least a few times, the Legions of old are dead. The only ones that persist are the Black Legion (who've got their own supplement) and the Word Bearers (who might get one in the near future). The others are broken and scattered. So why would you need Legion rules/Codecies? If you want to play Space Marine Legions, you've got Forge World's excellent Horus Heresy books which gives rules for all of them.

 

TL;DR: The Legions aren't going to get any rules outside of the FW HH books, accept it, please.

Except that I, like many other CSM players, want my warband to be different from other warbands? Or maybe Dark Angels are more different from Ultramarines than Alpha Legion from World Eaters? Surely, they deserve not even a supplement, but a whole codex with unique units and rules, while CSM (a damn HALF of Space Marines during Heresy) have one army list, and what players were asking for several years - Legions - are just color chemes.

GW made excellent job with new C:SM chapter tactics, and FW managed to do even more with one page of additional rules per Legion. Only if FW Legions were allowed in regular games outside HH series, I'd shut up and just played them, but I have this dull and boring CSM codex made during lunch break by copy-pasting Gavdex and addind some artworks. This sick joke of "Crimson Slaughter" release is like rubbing salt in a wound.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

What on earth is this giant whinefest. It makes rationally no sense:

 

Just because GW releases this, doesn't mean it took up the place of a Legion codex or whatever. We don't know if this means other Chaos releases are delayed or not. Therefore you (and me), Chaos players, probably don't lose anything with this release.

 

So you are angry there are no Legion codexes yet? Like we didn't know that already, you guys whine about this for years straight, but that has very very little to do with this release.

 

I view this release as simply a potential bonus. Does it turn out to be rubbish? No problem, nothing lost. It turns out to be actually good or at least usefull? Great

 

+1

 

Besides, as A D-B (among others) has mentioned at least a few times, the Legions of old are dead. The only ones that persist are the Black Legion (who've got their own supplement) and the Word Bearers (who might get one in the near future). The others are broken and scattered. So why would you need Legion rules/Codecies? If you want to play Space Marine Legions, you've got Forge World's excellent Horus Heresy books which gives rules for all of them.

 

TL;DR: The Legions aren't going to get any rules outside of the FW HH books, accept it, please.

 

 

A D-B has also said that the Black Legion is not the XVI Legion. It is something new, something that did not exist until Abaddon had decided he had had enough and began carving a path of blood and bones towards the future where he would light the Imperium aflame and toss the Great Corpse from His Throne.

[Trevak Dal]

 

What on earth is this giant whinefest. It makes rationally no sense:

 

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

 

Now that it seems to be an actual codex as opposed to a supplement (fingers crossed) I am hopeful that we may see some interesting options.

 

Allowing Chaos drop pods would be an easy and very very fast money maker for them. Suddenly everyone buys the £30 book and a £22.50 drop pod.

 

They can't be adding any more units, so possibly force org shifts (Berzerkers as troops without the Lord tax, like Raukaan/dreads, Black/Chosen?), or special rules for new units.

 

Helbrute in a drop pod?  Mmm.

[the jeske]

The Legions aren't going to get any rules outside of the FW HH books, accept it, please.

It is hard to accept that the best part of chaos fluff is suddenly non valid and what is left is BL , Corsairs as second largest csm force and then happy chaos family . Why play chaos at all , if you can't play AL or NL , because they don't exist .

 

 

 

What on earth is this giant whinefest. It makes rationally no sense:

 

 

Well we were told that that GW is working on legion stuff and more then a few people want the legion stuff. In the end the legion stuff proves to be FW w30k stuff and legion of the damned . People are not happy about it . We get the BL codex which is more like extra slots and "why aren't those relics in the main book" codex . People are not happy about it , unless they like the BL fluff in it . Then we get this . At this point nothing GW could make [technicly, they could of course technicly make a full blown legion extravaganza , but that will never happen] will make people happy . People that want legions will ask why are we getting a codex about 200 dudes , no body plays . People that want good rules[assuming the rules int the CS codex are good here] will ask why those weren't in the main book . People who play CS [the non existant ones] will suddenly find their armies turn from their own DiYS chaos warband to something with official GW fluff[and fluff is always a taste thing . can be good or can be bad].

[Smurfalypse]

I know. Most of the other Renegades only get a single Paragraph, the Red Corsairs one of them. However, the Red Corsairs also get a named character with Huron. Lord Kranon only appears in the DV set.

 

Truth be told that is probably more attention than most of the Legions received.

 

With that said, I am one of the few who is not wholey upset about this release and your points about a new player getting into CSM only to not see anything about them again in the Codex and how dissapointing that would be is 100% valid and understandable. I am taking it in this way "If I like some stuff in it and want to not ally with Daemons this may be a better book to ally with instead of Black Legion for me, if not. . . Then I will not use it, no harm done and I am in no worse or better shape than before".