Warhammer 40,000 - Novel fails part 1: Defences

[Firebrethren]

When I was recently trying to write the newest of my short stories I came upon a very big trip wire... I don't know how big one can make the defences of a planet - which belongs to an Astartes chapter, as well as both the Imperial naval HQ for that sector & a Mechanicus minor - Forge world. ???

 

My main character leads his badly damaged and hunted chapter back to their fanatically loyal base of operations and Homeworld - "Arcadia Primaris". There they prepare for what seems to them the final stand against the unjust persecutors of the Holy Inquisition! The population of their homeworld is about half that of Necromunda, but it is also bolstered by the Mechanicum and Naval presence in the system...

 

How big can I make the following: PDF numbers, Mechanicus troops, Naval ships, Astartes serfs; without it seeming stupid and childlishly over the top? I want a vast campaign and a devestating series of events that will eventually drive my chapter deep into the unkown regions of the infamous Halo Stars!! But I don't want to kill the idea before I can really kick it off into action...

[Brother Heinrich]

Well reading the history behind the Badab Wars would be a good start. If the Inquisition is coming after an Astartes chapter home world they aren't doing it alone. They will probably be calling on several other Astartes chapters, such as the Red Hunters, who are known to actively support the Inquisition in it's persecution of traitors and heretics. On top of that if they are going against mechanicus and PDF forces they'll be bringing guard regiments as well as Titan Legion support. Basically it depends on how large you want the conflict to be, if you're talking about a whole sector or a series of planets, then it's going to be millions of PDF, Mechanicus Tech Guard and Skitarii, and potentially even Titan Legio support.

[Legatus]

 

I don't know how big one can make the defences of a planet - which belongs to an Astartes chapter, as well as both the Imperial naval HQ for that sector & a Mechanicus minor - Forge world.

 

That sounds a bit dubious rught there. The Adeptus Astartes, the Imperial Navy and the Adeptus Mechanicus are all independently acting institutions. They all pursue their own agendas, and indeed after the Horus Heresy there was the effort to separate the institutions (especially the military branches) and to not have one of them gain too much influence over the others. To have a world act as a base of several of those institutions is highly uncommon. A world would more usually be the domain of one of those institutions.

 

And then the Inquisition is attacking a world belonging (somehow) to all three of those institutions? There woudl have to be some substantial evidence of heresy in order to take such measures.

[Olis]

When I was recently trying to write the newest of my short stories I came upon a very big trip wire... I don't know how big one can make the defences of a planet - which belongs to an Astartes chapter, as well as both the Imperial naval HQ for that sector & a Mechanicus minor - Forge world. ???

 

I remember waaay back when I first dreamed up my pirmary DIY chapter - their planetary system had it all; sector capital, astartes homeworld, Mechanicus presence, a Navy base, etc, etc. It took me a while to figure it out (even when I had posted the IA on B&C and received less than favourable critique) that although this much stuff can be squeezed into that area, it really shouldn't for believability.

 

So, painful though it was at that time, I separated things out and watered down the concentration of important elements. I now have background material for an entire sector because of this realisation. No offence intended brother but, for the sake of believability, you need to drop the idea that this Astartes chapter shares direct territory with the Mechanicus and the Navy. 

 

 

So, anyhoo back to your question.

 

How big can I make the following: PDF numbers, Mechanicus troops, Naval ships, Astartes serfs; without it seeming stupid and childlishly over the top? I want a vast campaign and a devestating series of events that will eventually drive my chapter deep into the unkown regions of the infamous Halo Stars!! But I don't want to kill the idea before I can really kick it off into action...

 

On an astartes world, I would presume the astartes and their serfs would be the main line of defence. Whether or not you want to have PDF forces directly under their thrall as well (I would) is entirely up to you. But the depth of defences on Imperial worlds, regardless of importance and provenance, varies greatly. In fact it would be safe to assume that any defences you dream up would probably be about right, depending on how far overboard you habitually do things (if at all).

 

However, if you need a pointer as to what exactly to emphasize then I would suggest thinking about defences as successive rings (without actually describing them as such). So the furthest out would be the system defences - monitors, defence stations, minefields and the like. Next would be the orbital defences - orbital platforms, orbital stations, ground-to-orbit defence sites on the surface of the planet itself. After that is air defences - AA batteries, local interceptors, PDF hydra tanks and maybe void shields for important sites. And then you have ground defences - ground units such as the astartes and the PDF would factor in, as well as defence lines and emplacements. 

 

So, for a world half the size of Necromunda? A few million troops could be used as an upper limit without sounding silly (even though, theoretically the troop numbers could and would very well be in the tens of millions on a highly militarised world). Do remember that astartes homeworlds are supposedly tough nuts to crack. Huge troop numbers can reflect this, if only for shear weight of numbers. 

 

I could go into even more detail but I suspect that this reply will suffice. PM me if you have specific questions. ;)

[jeffersonian000]

It is actually next to impossible to defend a planet from a threat in space. A planet is a gravity well that can easily targeted by simply dropping big rocks on it from the outer system. Take a small moon, put propulsion on it, some massive void shields to protect it, and a modest escort to deter anyone from stopping it, and you can kill a planet using 40k technology.

 

To defend against this, you need a heavy naval presence, lots of bases throughout the system, numerous patrols, mine fields covering approach routes, a lot of missile boats to launch massive shoals of anti-ship missiles at any enemy fleet, and thousands of space superiority fighters to kill small craft and finish off wounded ships.

 

In orbit you need Orbital Defense Installation capable of killing small moons, mine fields to deter invaders from parking, and another layer of missile platforms and fighter support.

 

On the ground you need planetary shields to stop the odd rock that gets through, planetary defense lasers and missile installations to remove the enemy from orbit, and a fast reacting planetary defense force to rapidly re-deploy to handle any incursion that gets through all the layers previously mentioned.

 

That is a lot of manpower, a huge expenditure of resources, and a deep desire to not fail. You will need a huge population, a massive infrastructure, naval yards, orbital industry, and at least a hundred years of prior warning.

 

Or you can go the Grey Knight route and use sorcery to hide your planet from invasion.

 

SJ

[Perrin]

As well as what others have said about it being unlikely to have a Chapter, AdMech and the Navy all having HQ on the same planet, it's also very unlikely that the AdMech and Navy forces would side with the Chapter over the Inquisition. A lot of Chapters have a large fleet of their own, and their own forge facilities and complements of Techmarines, so there isn't much need for the AdMech or Navy.

 

Rynn's World has a good depiction of an Astartes world under-siege, as does the last book in the Ultramarines series.

 

I think the most important thing is a naval force large enough to hold its own against the Inquisition fleet. The Inquisition is likely to have some Astartes forces of their own, as well as the local Navy fleet and possibly some Grey Knights, depending on why they're after your Chapter. Your fleet has to at least be big enough to deter the enemy fleet from full out attacking and gaining orbital supremacy for orbital bombardment. A bigger than average Chapter fleet will work, as well as a boatload of ground-based anti-orbital weapons. Minefields in orbit also work, and make some things up!

 

I was watching Doctor Who and this one planet that was under siege from an enemy fleet had sky trenches that were holding back enemy bombardment. As long as you could describe what it was, and it was realistic enough for 40k, you could make up some archeotech that the Chapter has its hands on that could tip the balance against an enemy fleet.

[Black Cohort]

Another thing to look at from the badab war is that without serious proof of heresy, other chapters may fight with yours depending on how they get along with neighbouring chapters. The adeptus astartes like their independence.

[Firebrethren]

Thankyou for all your ideas... I have done several things to my chapter idea, like what Olisredan said:

 

 

 

When I was recently trying to write the newest of my short stories I came upon a very big trip wire... I don't know how big one can make the defences of a planet - which belongs to an Astartes chapter, as well as both the Imperial naval HQ for that sector & a Mechanicus minor - Forge world. ???

I remember waaay back when I first dreamed up my pirmary DIY chapter - their planetary system had it all; sector capital, astartes homeworld, Mechanicus presence, a Navy base, etc, etc. It took me a while to figure it out (even when I had posted the IA on B&C and received less than favourable critique) that although this much stuff can be squeezed into that area, it really shouldn't for believability.

 

So, painful though it was at that time, I separated things out and watered down the concentration of important elements. I now have background material for an entire sector because of this realisation. No offence intended brother but, for the sake of believability, you need to drop the idea that this Astartes chapter shares direct territory with the Mechanicus and the Navy.

 

 

So, anyhoo back to your question.

 

How big can I make the following: PDF numbers, Mechanicus troops, Naval ships, Astartes serfs; without it seeming stupid and childlishly over the top? I want a vast campaign and a devestating series of events that will eventually drive my chapter deep into the unkown regions of the infamous Halo Stars!! But I don't want to kill the idea before I can really kick it off into action...

On an astartes world, I would presume the astartes and their serfs would be the main line of defence. Whether or not you want to have PDF forces directly under their thrall as well (I would) is entirely up to you. But the depth of defences on Imperial worlds, regardless of importance and provenance, varies greatly. In fact it would be safe to assume that any defences you dream up would probably be about right, depending on how far overboard you habitually do things (if at all).

 

However, if you need a pointer as to what exactly to emphasize then I would suggest thinking about defences as successive rings (without actually describing them as such). So the furthest out would be the system defences - monitors, defence stations, minefields and the like. Next would be the orbital defences - orbital platforms, orbital stations, ground-to-orbit defence sites on the surface of the planet itself. After that is air defences - AA batteries, local interceptors, PDF hydra tanks and maybe void shields for important sites. And then you have ground defences - ground units such as the astartes and the PDF would factor in, as well as defence lines and emplacements.

 

So, for a world half the size of Necromunda? A few million troops could be used as an upper limit without sounding silly (even though, theoretically the troop numbers could and would very well be in the tens of millions on a highly militarised world). Do remember that astartes homeworlds are supposedly tough nuts to crack. Huge troop numbers can reflect this, if only for shear weight of numbers.

 

I could go into even more detail but I suspect that this reply will suffice. PM me if you have specific questions. ;)

 

And I have changed my world to a smaller force, the chapter is a third "lost" founding chapter who are decended (rumor) from the "Blood Ravens", and another chapter that was nearly destroyed - the; "Shadow Wolves" - who were virtually wiped out during a Tyranid attack on their homeworld of Varadon in 987.M41.

(Lexicanium - http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Shadow_Wolves )

 

They have been hounded by numerous enemies, causing them to disasterously try and increase the number of spacemarines that they could create, using information found in a debris field concearning the efforts of Corax, primarch of the Raven guard; to do just the same after the Istvaan V. They instead caused nearly half to be mutated into fiendish monstrosities - which had to be killed; and the rest developed tendancies to lose themselves in the heat of the battle - probably due to their tainted bloodlines...

 

Please, continue the great suggestions (my idea is some of the geneseed from the "Shadow wolves" was used by the Shadow-Spectres to help bring the chapter up to strength) - maybe I should put severe restrictions on their armoury (e.g. few tanks, no titans, 1 to 4 terminator suits, and a few squads of he older veterans from the original chapter???)

[Olis]

If you are going down the road of tampering with your chapter's gene-seed (which will certainly be how the Inquisition will look at it if they find out) then I suggest doing it from the perspective of desperation. Maybe, with the use of data scraps that are ten thousand years old (there's really no need to mention the Raven Guard or the monsters at all here - the hints and references should remain subtle), they have overstepped their mark, much like the Astral Claws did, and used the gene-seed from fallen cousins of other chapters (the Shadow Wolves being one of them). The reason why? A disastrous campaign or a surprise attack on the chapter that decimated them, reducing them down to a number that could get them disbanded (let's say less than a company's worth).

 

With numbers so low and the chapter mortified by the idea that they will be disbanded, they turn to using scavenged gene-seed. A proscribed practice and one that would garner them plenty of ill-will if and when other chapters find out. Thing is... they did find out. Or one of them did. And now the Inquisition is knocking on the door. Perhaps this specific representative is all fire and brimstone, a real puritan with a fire-first-ask-questions-later mentality. It wouldn't bode well for your chapter at that point. ;) 

[Wolf Lord Barak Ironwolf]

Some really  good replies and ideas here.  Looking back through all my fluff (been playing since Rogue Trader) only the

Ultramarines come close to what you described as your original chapter idea and they did not have Mechanicus

in Ultramar.  HOWEVER,  as the Regent of Ultramar the Chapter Master commands AWESOME forces, literally hundreds of PDF

regiments, many of which serve as active IG regiments, a navy that rivals many battlegroups of BattleFleet Bakka. No numbers are

given but it is inferred that at least a couple of Battleships, several BattleCruiser/Cruiser class ships and a couple dozen escorts are part of the force alongside the Ultramarines own BattleBarges, StrikeCruisers and escorts. Like I said there was no Mechanicum presence but early on Ultramar was supposed to house a naval base and shipyard that dated from the Crusade and was still maintained today.  But that is ONE chapter out of a thousand, for a single planet ruled by a chapter, I would say only Marine fleet ships, possibly a system defence fleet (cruisers and escorts) but large and imposing orbital and system defences.  Like has already been said, check out Rynn's World for a good 'template' for a Chapter ruled homeworld and military,

[daveNYC]

Blood Ravens as a parent chapter?  That's gonna require some backstory.  First Founding chapters are pretty much the go-to guys when creating a new chapter.  Having the Blood Ravens in there is pushing things even further since nobody knows who the BR came from, and their recent history hasn't exactly been pristine.

[Inquisitor Kravin]

A planet is a gravity well that can easily targeted by simply dropping big rocks on it from the outer system. Take a small moon, put propulsion on it, some massive void shields to protect it, and a modest escort to deter anyone from stopping it, and you can kill a planet using 40k technology.

There was once a White Dwarf item that addressed this. It was a comedy piece that GW acknowledged they found on the web and they reprinted because back then most of us didn't yet have the internet so they could get away with it. It was a reprimand to an imperial citizen who had criticised the use of missiles when an asteroid would do the job just fine. The memo listed all of the challenges and costs of such a plan and then told them to report for re-education. I'd love it if someone here still had that text.

[Olis]

 

A planet is a gravity well that can easily targeted by simply dropping big rocks on it from the outer system. Take a small moon, put propulsion on it, some massive void shields to protect it, and a modest escort to deter anyone from stopping it, and you can kill a planet using 40k technology.

There was once a White Dwarf item that addressed this. It was a comedy piece that GW acknowledged they found on the web and they reprinted because back then most of us didn't yet have the internet so they could get away with it. It was a reprimand to an imperial citizen who had criticised the use of missiles when an asteroid would do the job just fine. The memo listed all of the challenges and costs of such a plan and then told them to report for re-education. I'd love it if someone here still had that text.

 

Lexicanum article.

 

And picture:

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1365/12/1365124312316.jpg

[Kol Saresk]

Right, leave the Roks to the Orks. :P

[sitnam]

Blood Ravens as a parent chapter?  That's gonna require some backstory.  First Founding chapters are pretty much the go-to guys when creating a new chapter.  Having the Blood Ravens in there is pushing things even further since nobody knows who the BR came from, and their recent history hasn't exactly been pristine.

I'm not sure this is quite true. It seems that instances of non-First Founding chapters generating succesors happens frequently in fluff. Take the Mantis Warriors or Tiger Claws for instance.

[daveNYC]

How frequent relative to using First Founding geneseed, and more crucially, how likely is it that a chapter would be founded using mystery geneseed.  Remember that we're not just talking about a chapter that was founded using X, Y, or Z's geneseed and then 'lost' the records about where its geneseed came from, we're talking about using geneseed from an unknown origin to found a new chapter.

 

You're going to need some amount of handwavium to explain why the Administratum or Ad Mech thought it was a good idea to go with unknown geneseed.  The 21st Founding might get you that (and even then the Ad Mech knew where the geneseed came from, even if the actual geneseed was a little dodgy), but I don't think you can just use the Blood Ravens without at least lampshading the relative unlikeliness of the fact.