foto69man Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 So I want to start a 30k army after doing 40k for awhile. I'veplayed Black Templars, Orks, and Tau...so now onto something different. Local Meta is...Blood Angels(drop pod or bikes), Deathwing, ChaosMarines (Nurgle or undivided), Orks (Mass boys and Dakkajets), Necrons,Tau, Farisght Enclaves.So stuck between Night Lords or Iron WarriorsNight Lords 1850 (((125pts free to spend)))HQ Sevatar 175pts ElitesContemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (Kheres Acannon) 180pts Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (Twin Lascannons) 185pts Legion Cataphtactii Squad 175pts Troops Terror Squad (Volkites) 150 pts Terror Squad (Volkites) 150 pts Terror Squad (Volkites) 150 ptsFast AttackNight Raptor Squad (+10 Raptors) 250pts Heavy Support Land Raider Achilles 300pts -------------------------------- Iron Warriors 1850 (((1865pts over by 15))) HQ Legion Praetor (Cataphractii Armour, Paragon Blade-Master Crafted, Iron Halo) 180pts Elites Legion Cataphractii Squad 175pts --------Land Raider Phobos 250ptsTroops Legion Tactical Squad (20 Marines) 250pts Legion Tactical Squad (20 Marines) 250pts Legion Tactical Squad (10 Marines) 150pts Fast AttackHeavy Support Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (HK Missile, Lascannons) 240pts Iron Havoc Squad (1 H Bolter/4 Las) 245ptsFortificationBastion w/Quad Gun 125ptsThe thing that gets me is the mandatory 3 troop choices...hmmm. ForNight Lords, everything just goes right at him and infiltrate as closeas possible. Sevatar sneaks up the side with a Terror Squad and theTermies deep strike in for a finishing strike. Still 125pts to spend. ForIron Warriors, Havocs in the Bastion plinking things to death. Sicaranhunts down enemy armor. Tactical Blobs march forward(Iron Warriorsdon't fail morale ), and the land raider slams in for some fun.Ideas, concerns, suggestions, critiques? First 30k army so no real solid ideas yet...or established bad habits for that matter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289566-punch-in-the-faceor-shoot-from-afar-army-choices/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 For the first list... you have to pay to give NL Terminators deep strike (without going for the OA RoW), so that's one cost unaccounted for. I think you are thin on bodies, 15 power armored marines in the Terror Squads and another 10 in the Night Raptor Squad. Volkites are nice and all, but they're going to have trouble staying on their feet. This list seems fluffy, but I don't think it will work. With this RoW, I don't think you can afford to go minimum troops (they will all die, horribly) and spend all your points on toys. The 3 troops choice minimum + the requirement that it be terror squads means you need to focus on those terror squads, not ignore them. Maybe drop the Raptors and the Volkites, increase all three squads to 10 men each, give them bolters, chainglaive, artificer armor, and meltabomb on each Headsman... then you might be talking about a unit that can infiltrate in close, put out some good Preferred Enemy firepower, and then get into melee to finish their opponents off. Even then, it's kind of a gamble, and you will have to count on probably being outnumbered. For the terminator strike with Sevatar, you should put some combiweapons/special weapons on the terminators so they can really make an impression on the turn they arrive. For the Iron Warriors list... the first thing that jumps out at me is the Venator. The main gun is ordnance 2, so putting lascannon sponsons on it is pointless - they will only ever fire as snapshots, giving you one hit for every 3 turns of firing. Not worth the price of admission. Putting a HK launcher on top of that is just silly. In terms of efficiency, no sponsons is best, but the model looks bare without the sponsons fitted, so put the heavy bolters on it if you put anything. Second is the Havocs with the mixed weapons. Can Havocs have a mix of weapons? I know normal heavy support squads can't. And if you can, why mix a heavy bolter with lascannons? Seems very inefficient. I don't have Extermination, so I don't really know what's going on here, but it seems off. Third is the 10 man tactical squad. Why? You've got 3 scoring units already with the two tactical blobs and the cataphractii. 3 at 1850 is pretty alright for 30k. The fourth seems a bit superfluous, especially when you're so desperately lacking in upgrades. Not even meltabombs for your tactical sergeants? No armored ceramite for your Land Raider? Only Combibolters and axes(?) for your terminators? Those points are needed elsewhere in your army. Fourth is your Praetor. 30k Land Raiders only have 10 transport capacity, so he can't catch a ride with your terminator squad. So you're spending a bunch of points on a Praetor who can't contribute anything outside of melee and is going to have trouble getting into melee. The Iron Halo is also superfluous, Cataphractii plate already provides a 4++ invul. I think he should be a Master of Signal or Siege Breaker instead, attached to your Havoc squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289566-punch-in-the-faceor-shoot-from-afar-army-choices/#findComment-3652883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
foto69man Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Second try using your suggestions. Decided to drop the Night Lords...The Iron Warriors are required to hab 3 compulsory troop choices, so wasn't sure what to do. I like the blob squads for objectives. So the third can be replaced by a breacher or assualt squad, idk, suggestions? 7 Lascannon shots at BS a turn, not sure that'll be enough Anti-Tank. Praetor goes with Havocs as suggested. Apothecary goes with the 20 man blob.Iron Warriors 1850 (((25pts left to spend))) HQ Legion Praetor (Seige Breaker) 145pts Elites Legion Cataphractii Squad (5 Termies) 2 P Fists, H Flamer, Lighting Claw, T Hammer 210pts --------Land Raider Phobos 275pts --------Extra Armour(no cost), H Flamer, Frag Launcher Contemptor Mortis-Dreadnought (2 Twin Las) 185pts Apothecarion Detachment 45ptsTroops Legion Tactical Squad (20 Marines), Power Weapon, Melta Bombs 265pts Legion Tactical Squad (10 Marines), Power Weapon, Melta Bombs 165pts Legion Tactical Squad (10 Marines) 150pts Fast AttackHeavy Support Iron Havoc Squad (5 Las) 260ptsFortificationBastion w/Quad Gun 125pts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289566-punch-in-the-faceor-shoot-from-afar-army-choices/#findComment-3653796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 From what I've read online (I'm one of the unlucky few without Extermination), they only need the third troops choice when they are using their Rite of War. Siege Breaker is also an upgrade for a Centurion, not a Praetor (unless this has changed/is something special for the Iron Warriors?). Assuming what I've read about Iron Havocs is true (they come with tank hunters by default?) your best bet is probably to stick a master of signal with them for +1 BS. The Siege Breaker would just be giving them tank hunters, which they already have anyway. If you're trying to use the RoW, you have to take a Warsmith or Siege Breaker as your compulsory HQ (which you hadn't done the first time around). I don't think the RoW is particularly worth it, considering the requirements it will force on your list. You get two bolter shots instead of one before a charge in exchange for losing the +1 attack you would normally have (which is really kind of a wash), and you get 'free' extra armor. But if you're taking a Centurion instead of a Praetor, you have a few points kicking around to just buy the extra armor in the first place. If you're not doing something to take advantage of the fourth heavy support choice that the RoW offers you, why take it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289566-punch-in-the-faceor-shoot-from-afar-army-choices/#findComment-3653956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Iron Havocs come with tank hunter default. I agree with Kitwulfen - take advantage of the RoW. Also, use a Master of Signal instead of the book. Just pm me if you need to look at rules for anything Heresy wise, I have the 3 books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289566-punch-in-the-faceor-shoot-from-afar-army-choices/#findComment-3653965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
foto69man Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 So...trying this again. No RoW this time. Dropped to Centurion, dropped third Tac Squad, and added a Sicaran for scare tactics and armor killing till it gets popped. Trying to stay ouf the super heavy realm right now. I still have 50pts though. I could also drop the Bastion and count on my Mortis for AA duties...hmmm. Suggestions? Iron Warriors 1850 (((50pts left to spend))) HQ Legion Centurion (Master of Signals) 85pts Elites Legion Cataphractii Squad (5 Termies) 2 P Fists, H Flamer, Lighting Claw, T Hammer 210pts --------Land Raider Phobos 285pts --------Extra Armour, H Flamer, Frag Launcher Contemptor Mortis-Dreadnought (2 Twin Las) 185pts Apothecarion Detachment 45ptsTroops Legion Tactical Squad (20 Marines), Power Weapon, Melta Bombs 265pts Legion Tactical Squad (10 Marines), Power Weapon, Melta Bombs 165pts Fast AttackHeavy Support Iron Havoc Squad (5 Las) 260pts Legion Sicaran Battle Tank Auxiliary Drive, A Ceramite, H Bolters 185ptsFortificationBastion w/Quad Gun 125pts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289566-punch-in-the-faceor-shoot-from-afar-army-choices/#findComment-3654054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Presumably your weaker squad fires the Quad Gun ? I'm not too sure on Heavy Bolsters, maybe put a Combo bolter on your Sicarian and buy another Iron Havoc? I also believe you need to buy a Refractor Field for the Master of Signal. I would get rid of either Ceramite or Auxiliary Drive on the Sicarian, and spend accordingly. Your anti air is fine. I like the list, very in character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289566-punch-in-the-faceor-shoot-from-afar-army-choices/#findComment-3654078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
foto69man Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Presumably your weaker squad fires the Quad Gun ? I'm not too sure on Heavy Bolsters, maybe put a Combo bolter on your Sicarian and buy another Iron Havoc? I also believe you need to buy a Refractor Field for the Master of Signal. I would get rid of either Ceramite or Auxiliary Drive on the Sicarian, and spend accordingly. Your anti air is fine. I like the list, very in character. Was thinking the Centurion attached to the Havoc fires it the Quad? Or bad move? Just felt and as pointed out before the Sicaran would be naked with out something else...but yeah dropping those H Bolters/Extras and buying the refractor gives me 90 pts to work with then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289566-punch-in-the-faceor-shoot-from-afar-army-choices/#findComment-3654091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Good point. I thought the Master of Signal would use his Cognis Signum to boos the Havocs to BS 5. Maybe alternative turns? 90 points is nice.... bulk out the Havocs or buy a Rapier Destroyer? Or , expand the Tacticals? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289566-punch-in-the-faceor-shoot-from-afar-army-choices/#findComment-3654168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
foto69man Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Good point. I thought the Master of Signal would use his Cognis Signum to boos the Havocs to BS 5. Maybe alternative turns? 90 points is nice.... bulk out the Havocs or buy a Rapier Destroyer? Or , expand the Tacticals? I could have the small Tac squad stay on the Quad gun...suppose it just depends on who I play. I changed the Sicaran to the tank destroyer variant. More pricey, and had to drop the H Bolters...but eh. Heavier firepower(and fluffier) and scarier once you tell someone what it does. Gives the Tac Blob and Land Raider time to do what they do. 1 Orbital Bombardement and then 9 Lascannons, Quad Guns, 2 Neutron Blasts a turn. Not too shabby for a small Iron Warrioirs detachment at 1805pts. Any ideas for my remaining 5 pts? Melta bombs on someone I suppose? Iron Warriors 1850 (((5pts left to spend))) HQ Legion Centurion (Master of Signals) 85pts Elites Legion Cataphractii Squad (5 Termies) 2 P Fists, H Flamer, Lighting Claw, T Hammer 210pts --------Land Raider Phobos 285pts --------Extra Armour, H Flamer, Frag Launcher Contemptor Mortis-Dreadnought (2 Twin Las) 185pts Apothecarion Detachment 45pts Troops Legion Tactical Squad (20 Marines), Power Weapon, Melta Bombs 265pts Legion Tactical Squad (10 Marines), Power Weapon, Melta Bombs 165pts Fast Attack Heavy Support Iron Havoc Squad (5 Las) 260pts Legion Sicaran Tank Destroyer (Auxiliary Drive, A Ceramite) 220pts Fortification Bastion w/Quad Gun 125pts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289566-punch-in-the-faceor-shoot-from-afar-army-choices/#findComment-3654946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
foto69man Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Oh and Kit...I am stealing your loadout for when I increase to 2k points ;-) I might do that squad like this: Sergeant with Chainfist/Combi-plasma 5 Cataphractii with LC/Combi-plasma 2 Cataphractii with PF/Combi-plasma 2 Cataphractii with Power Axe/Reaper Autocannon 5 models striking at initiative, 5 striking with unwieldy weapons,one guy with a chainfist in case of a land raider, spartan, orcontemptor. 8 combi-plasmas is going to give you 16 plasma shots beforea charge, so if you've got the drop on another squad of terminators youshould be able to kill around 4 of them before your charge (assumingthey've got a 4++ invul). That plus the wounds from the autocannonsshould either take care of a five man squad outright or get you easyoutnumbering for melee against a larger squad (where you'll score onemore kill from the lightning claws at initiative, before finishing offthe ~4 remaining terminators with fists and axes at initiative step 1). Again, it's completely up to you whether you put the autocannons onguys with axes, fists, or claws Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289566-punch-in-the-faceor-shoot-from-afar-army-choices/#findComment-3655080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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