[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[Hesh Kadesh]

Well that really does hammer things in a bad shape, particularly for allies, and the Vigilator becomes utter crap once again. 

 

"An Independent Character without the infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment and vice versa".

 

Now, IC's with Infiltrate can ONLY join units of other Infiltrators during deployment, regardless of whether or not they're using that rule. Absolutely useless. They should just change the rule so that only units

[Nusquam]

Wow. Just wow. I'm at a loss of words as to how bad that is. Poor Shrike.

 

Edit: Also poor, Vigilators and every non-bulky RG IC. I emailed both GW and FW. This rule breaks more than it fixes.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Nusquam

[Hesh Kadesh]

Actually im not too sure. Just hammered it out with the rest of my group. Cannot join INFILTRATORS, not units. Still poor wording, but doesn't actually change the rule from how it currently works.

 

Not exactly sure what the intention of this errata was, as it changes nothing.

[Nusquam]

I see what you're saying. It is very poorly worded if the intention is to prevent an IC from infiltrating a unit without infiltrate and not limiting an IC with infiltrate to only be able to join units that have infiltrate.

 

So that line of thinking fixes joining allies normally, not infiltrating, but prevents ICs from infiltrating a unit without that rule. So Shrike, who may only join Jump Infantry(which lack infiltrate) during deployment can't infiltrate them.

Even though no one should stop you, it's the principle of the matter. Write good rules.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Nusquam

[defl0]

If you follow the order of deployment really carefully there was never an opportunity for ICs to give Infiltrate to non infiltrators or infiltrators to give the rule non infiltrator ICs. Some big tournies had FAQs that changed the rule. But really it's been this way for a couple editions, on purpose. And every edition GW clarifies it again in a FAQ.

 

Also, shrike isn't effected. He can join a unit as his rule specifically states "Before deploying". Which is the reason he can infiltrate someone, but he has a rider that it only works with jump packs.

 

BTW - this doesn't make vigilators useless, You can still join units in reserves and give them out flank.  

 

For RG, I don't think it changes much. We basically lose infiltrating termies, jumppacks, bikes and allies. It makes RG a more special snow flake and hurts other legions more. 

I guess vigiliators can also join units and give them scout too.

[Nusquam]

Shrike is affected, neither he nor his rule gives the units with Jump Infiltrate. He is still trying to attach to a unit without infiltrate, with the new errata he can't infiltrate them.

[defl0]

Read it again. The FAQ states "during deployment". This is the same way they handled it last edition. Shrike can attach "before deployment". Thus he still works.

 

The order of operations is really important for deployment and conveying rules from and too units and ICs. 

[Tiger9gamer]

Taking a look at the new Centurions finally (thank you 1d4chan) I gotta say: Holy Carp that Praevian! infiltrating Castellax? yes please! 

 

 

but the Delegus, can he take any RoW?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Read it again. The FAQ states "during deployment". This is the same way they handled it last edition. Shrike can attach "before deployment". Thus he still works.

 

The order of operations is really important for deployment and conveying rules from and too units and ICs. 

Order of operations is not important because it requires the models to have the actual rule, not just be able to benefit from it.

 

GW really do not know their own game do they?

[Nusquam]

Praevians good stuff. RG and IH really got the best of it.

 

Yes he can, he just has an additional one unique to him.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Considering a Tank Hunter Darkfire Cannon Praevian unit for Alpha Legion to be fair. Praevian, 5 Darkfire Cannons = 570. With PE, no real need for the ETA.

[Hammer of Olympia]

Holla fellas

 

After reading Ravenlord,and currently reading Delivarence Lost,I'm currently interested in starting Raven Guards.Any suggestion on what to take to a 1000 list?

[defl0]

You playing zone mortalis? Or standard games? 1000 and below teens to be zone mortalis as it plays pretty differently

You playing zone mortalis? Or standard games? 1000 and below teens to be zone mortalis as it plays pretty differently

[Nusquam]

Mor Deythan and Tac marines are a good start for any game at any points level. A powerful RG unit and a bread and butter unit.

[defl0]

Has anybody tried mixing grav cannons and blind weapons? Defensive grenades and the dark wing both are blind weapons. Grav cannons drop I to 1. 

 

Mor Deythans, Nex have shroud bombs which are defensive grenades. 

 

Does anybody have any good tactics to exploit this? I was thinking a chaplain in a big tac squad hits pretty hard and makes our standard tac squads with hth weapons more than just an objective babysitter.

[defl0]

The best tactic I've found so far is with the expeditionary navigator. Lidless stare forces an initiative test or take an instant death wound no save allowed. Good way to wipe things like castellax or big termi blobs. 

 

 Drop pod with seekers seems like a good deployment option or a dark wing

[Nusquam]

You need to take a wound from concussive first. So it would work against things like automata, myrmidons, etc(which are already mostly I2) but not so much against W1 targets. The only thing I can think of are special cases like vorax and W2 special termis(which have a 2+ you have to get through). Also the wording on shroud bombs makes it sound like they only function in combat('...count as defensive grenades in close combat...') rather than just straight counting as defensive grenades. Very strange they would make that specific distinction, but shields have cameras grenade launchers that shoot defensive grenades.

 

Edit: Yeah Navigators are a great way to get through Castellax mobs, plus he can help keep whatever pods in alive as well.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Nusquam

[Hammer of Olympia]

im going tonplay normal games,no zone mortalis

[Slips]

Well, the bare minimum of troops, 2 10 man tac squads will (if we consider upgrades) cost roughly 185 points each. So thats 370 points of the list gone and leaves us with 630 points left to play with.

 

For HQ, the cheapest you could go for a reasonably equipped one would be the Delegatus since he can take a RoW. We can safely assume that such a consul would cost ~120 points.

 

So, downs to 510 points.

 

You could then take:

3 Thudd Gun Rapiers

10 Mor Deythan with 10 Combi-Weapons

 

The above two options leave you with 20 points left over to spend on stuff. I feel this would be the most versatile option since the Mor Deythan can reliably take things down with their combi-weapons and special rules for Twin-Linked and Rending. The Quad Mortars also give you up to 12 S8 Ap4 Sunder shots or 12 S6 Ap5 3" blasts per turn. If you want to, you can spread them out since you should have 4 elites slots.

[Nusquam]

Well, the bare minimum of troops, 2 10 man tac squads will (if we consider upgrades) cost roughly 185 points each. So thats 370 points of the list gone and leaves us with 630 points left to play with.

 

For HQ, the cheapest you could go for a reasonably equipped one would be the Delegatus since he can take a RoW. We can safely assume that such a consul would cost ~120 points.

 

So, downs to 510 points.

 

You could then take:

3 Thudd Gun Rapiers

10 Mor Deythan with 10 Combi-Weapons

 

The above two options leave you with 20 points left over to spend on stuff. I feel this would be the most versatile option since the Mor Deythan can reliably take things down with their combi-weapons and special rules for Twin-Linked and Rending. The Quad Mortars also give you up to 12 S8 Ap4 Sunder shots or 12 S6 Ap5 3" blasts per turn. If you want to, you can spread them out since you should have 4 elites slots.

 

Between infiltrate and the better chance at going first, from Decapitation Strike, you'll be hard pressed to find much better. If you desire more mobility you can scale back 15 points somewhere and take a rhino for the Mor Deythan. You could also break them up and have one, or both, be a sniper squad.

[defl0]

Good call. I was thinking it was part of the graviton rule. But yes it's concussive.

 

Hmmm, still good against multi wound termies and some other multi wound things. 

 

Lol. Forge world is worse than GW with rules... Yeah, the blind grenade wording is odd? "Combat". Close Combat? All combat? Who knows, there are a lot of rules written differently that function identically. But yeah, might be what they meant. 

 

Interesting point none the less. I need to think about the shields as well. That wasn't on my radar. 

[defl0]

Well, the bare minimum of troops, 2 10 man tac squads will (if we consider upgrades) cost roughly 185 points each. So thats 370 points of the list gone and leaves us with 630 points left to play with.

 

For HQ, the cheapest you could go for a reasonably equipped one would be the Delegatus since he can take a RoW. We can safely assume that such a consul would cost ~120 points.

 

 

To this point, 1/3 or your army is in your tac squads so you might want to get a little out of them by adding some  more points. A rhino still lets them infiltrate, gives them some protection, another objective secured unit (if you are playing 7th ed rules) and it is cheap to add a hvy bolter or something. Drop pods are another option. 

 

Or flesh out one of the tac squads and take a chaplain and ccws on the tacs. 

 

Mor Deythan are an excellent suggestion. 5 with combi flamers and a rhino are cheap. So are 4 shotguns and two flamers. 

 

The delagatus is cheap, but I'm not sure our ROW is really all that spectacular at 1000 pts... Maybe if you go drop pod heavy. 

[Slips]

I dont feel like taking a ~15+ man Tac Blob, Taking a Chaplain and giving them all CCW would be the best of ideas at such low points. A unit like that would cost you in the region of 50% of your list for a Single Squad. I'd rather have multiple small squads take up less of my list individually in such circumstances than a +/- single large squad potentially taking up half.

 

I'd opt for Rhinos on the Tac and a Drop Pod on the Mor Deythan with the RoW over making a beefy Tac Squad + CCW. Being all but assured T1, you can reliably alpha strike the Mor Deythan in and do some pretty good damage early on. 

 

I instead opted for Thudd Guns because of their versatility and because RG innately have better mobility than pretty much any legion before vehicles are taken into consideration to the point where it shouldnt be much of a problem at such low points. Even less so if the table is on the smaller end.

 

Like I said in my other post, 12 S6 3" Blasts who cause pinning at -1LD or 12 S8 Sunder Shots, I feel, are worth more than an 1-3 Rhinos.

 

Mor Deythan are a hard thing for RG not to consider - they're sooooo good. Personally, I'm not a fan of the Shotgun Thats just me.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Nusquam]

I like our RoW at any points level because of the better chance to go first. Alternatively the Delegatus' unique RoW 'Chosen Duty' is also good for low points(it was designed for such). Veteran Tac squads can be kitted out for a variety of tactics. Plus RG Vets can take a Darkwing as a DT. Competition for slots isn't really an issue at such low points but the Darkwing itself is solid. Alternatively they can always infiltrate them on foot or in a rhino.

 

If you wanted a little more punch and mobility army-wide 'Chosen Duty' may be the way to go. Something like(and I'm just spit-balling here):

• Delegatus with gear
• Vet Squad - 2+ and power weapon on sarge, Vex, H Bolter w/web, 9 Bodies in rhino, Sniper
• Vet Squad - 2+ and power weapon on sarge, Vex, x2 Missile Launcher w/web, 10 Bodies in rhino, Tank Hunters
• Fire Raptor

Squad #2 infiltrates and shoots the ML out the top. Squad #1 goes around and scores/harasses infantry. Fire raptor can get side shots into things like Dracosans/Conveyors with Flare Shields. Emphasizes precise application of force. Leaves around 80 points for play on gear.

 

If you want a little bit of both then try Decapitation Strike with as many points put into firepower like Mor Deythan and Rapiers as possible.

• Delegatus - various gear
• Tac Squad - 2+, Power weapon on sarge, vex, rhino
• Tac Squad - 2+, Power weapon on sarge, vex, rhino
• Mor Deythan - 2 MLs, 7 combi-weapons(a mix of 4 flamers and 3 meltaguns perhaps?), and shotgun(points) in a rhino.
• Rapier Battery - x2 Thuddgun

Tac squads infiltrate mid/backfield. Mor Deythan infiltrate then scout moves within 12" of a unit, turn one move 6" disembark 6" and alphastrike. Rapiers infiltrate to cover them. If the Mor Deythan pop a transport then Rapiers rain blasts on the contents or vice versa depending on which order is best. The idea is try to go first and have effective shooting immediately or if you are going second, outflank and mitigate their shootings effectiveness. Give the Delegatus Cameleoline and stick him with the Rapiers for T7 unit with stealth to keep him alive and safe.

 

I tried to brainstorm a third list that uses Chosen Duty, 2 vet squads in rhinos and a full thuddgun battery. While it wasn't bad the first list can put more hurt into key locations and the second offered better overall firepower.

 

The first list keeps you firepower mobile and makes sure you can always keep enemy units in sight. The second lists hits very hard turn one and keeps the pressure on. The game will likely be decided during deployment barring crazy rolls. Even with Chosen Duty making as much use of every point as possible, the style of the second list is still probably better. Only because if our increases chance of going first due to Decap Strike and being in optimal position to do as much damage as possible from infiltrate turn 1 or inversely minimizing enemy damage if they go first by outflanking.

[Hammer of Olympia]

Heya guys

thanks for the tips,liking it all.

but I've gotta tell one more thing,there's visibly no 30k player in my area so I'm the only one,so I play with 40k armies,is it good matchup againts 40k armies?