[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[Nusquam]

Yes the fragstorm shoots each unit within 12" d3 times too.

[Nusquam]

Been playing around with the idea of the Void Shield Harness on a Chaplain attached to Dark Furies. Get them into prime assaulting position to begin their hopping across the board with immunity to small-arms. They can really ruin someones day. Of course throwing them smack-dab into the fray will see the bubble popped by something else the Fury'd to death. The idea is to start them on a flank and move in from there. Only a handful because a 10 man squad with a Chaplain will kill 26 tacticals in one round and leave them exposed on your opponents turn. Plus a lower number is easier to hide. I'm thinking around 7 if you face 20-man blobs often and minimum with a Vigilator for stealth(4+ cover from Fateful Decent? Yes please.) if you don't. Keep the pressure up elsewhere to give them breathing room. This ensures they kill the squad on your opponents turn and keeps aggro down.

 

Next game, Saturday, I want to try a Contemptor inside an Anvillus. The potential mobility is great. Not really RG specific but a mobile Contemptor is always nice and is able to keep up with the usual mobility of a RG list. Plus it can grab other unit if needed to score something.

 

Another thing I just thought of is infiltrating/scouting destroyer squads with a moritat in a rhino. The moritat and a launcher can shoot out of the top hatch. They could be in position as early as turn 1, with ablative AV11. Not the most durable box but rad grenades and counter attack will go a long way at mitigating counter charges. Just have to watch out for placement on shooting.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Nusquam

[Tiger9gamer]

thats a good idea for the void harness. Can it be taken with a jump pack too? 

 

 

as for relics I was thinking of a regular centurion with jump pack and Goo-Gun to hit an opponent off the deep-strike, like a moriat lite.

[Slips]

The most obvious is the Moritat + Phase Walker. So long as you don't pass through any terrain/vehicles/whatever, he should be just fine to get in close real fast, go pew pew and if he survives the next turn, phase walk out.

 

...That is if it doesn't have a single use.

[Tiger9gamer]

How far can he teleport?

[Slips]

Books says Anywhere.

 

So, technically, Unlimited range. But for Every Building/vehicle/whatever between his start point and arrival point (in a straight line) he takes a test. If failed, lose a wound no saves of any kind.

 

If theres nothing in his line of sight from where he is to where he wants to go, no test needs to me made.

 

Unless I missed something by reading the entry too fast, this is how it works.

[Nusquam]

Yes the Void harness can be taken by jump infantry. I meant to mention deep-striking them with a jump Chaplain. The harness would also be good for defending against interceptor fire too now that I think about it.

 

Close, it's a dangerous terrain test for every object between the points. With artificer armor, unless you pass through dozens of models, it's unlikely you'll end up losing a wound without bad luck.

You can infiltrate him up high somewhere with good LoS and zip him back and forth between the two points without worry. With the nerf to plasma Moritats I wonder if it will be worth it. If they gained access to Archeotech pistols, definitely. Or if you were facing IG, Nids or Orks and use twin serpentas.

 

I've also been brainstorming for Maun's Nightfall vox. Deepstriking Destroyers without scatter within 18" seems appetizing. Give Maun cameleoline and attach him to an infiltrating blob of tacs with an Apothecary.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Nusquam

[Sevatar]

Wait. Can you take Legion items on Special Character?

[Nusquam]

Wait. Can you take Legion items on Special Character?

 

Yes. Special characters only have the "Unique" rule which only prevents taking multiples. All legion gear does is effectively add the rule for taking it to anything that qualifies. Just like some special characters have alternate wargear, Sammael from DA comes to mind.

[Slips]

Wait. Can you take Legion items on Special Character?

Can't be given to unique Legion Characters though. Like Maun or Kaedes - only generics.

[Nusquam]

 

Wait. Can you take Legion items on Special Character?

Can't be given to unique Legion Characters though. Like Maun or Kaedes - only generics.

 

Where does it say that?

[Slips]

Conquest, Page 222. Under the Using Relics Section : "[...]They may not be taken by special characters (i.e., models with the Unique Type). Only one of each Relic may be chosen per army."

 

Unit Example : Sigismund

 

Unit Composition:

1(unique)

 

Thus he is excluded from being able to take a relic.

 

All Special Legion Characters have this classification. Which means that only Generic Consuls and Preators can take Relics from the Dark Age since it was also made to be used with the new Character Progression System for Campaigns within Conquest that have you take a Generic no-name character, giving him a name and having him earn experience and stats throughout games played.

 

Thats how I interpret it anyways.

[Nusquam]

We're not talking about relics. We're talking about legion-specific wargear like cameleoline.

[Slips]

/facepalm

 

AHAHAH I must be tired or some : I read that as Relics from Conquest since we were talking about the Phase Walker and Void Harness just prior.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Slipstreams

[Sanct]

No you can't take regular legion equipment on unique/special characters.  Otherwise you end with ferrus manus taking a cyberfamiliar for a 3++ or chaplain nomus taking the salamander storm shield as well as others (Mortarion suddenly gets rad grenades! Fulgrim get screamers which give him an extra attack!) Saul suddenly submits to Fabius's dabbling and gets screamers!)

[Nusquam]

Is there a special rule somewhere that says you can't? I looked around int he generic legion rules, characters section and the "unique" rule. There's no rule that I can find that say you can't modify named characters wargear. They only actual difference is that they usually, but not always, have preset gear and are Unique(can't have dupes). Some have options on their page you can take or change. Which is effectively what legion gear does; it adds the option if the unit qualifies.

 

For example, Cameleoline:

 

"Any Raven Guard independent character may be given Cameleoline for... However... may not also be equipped with Terminator armour, a Jump Pack, a Space Marine Bike or a Space marine Jetbike."

Is Maun RG? Yes.

Is he an Independent Character? Yes.

Does he have any of the mention exclusions to the requirements to take Cameleoline such as a Jump Pack? No.

He qualifies to be able to purchase Cameleoline.

 

Mortarion can't take Rad Grenades because he doesn't have the Legiones Astartes(Death Guard) rule. Same with Fulgrim, he doesn't have the Legiones Astartes(Emperors Children) rule so he can't take a Shrieker. Though Saul can because he meets both requirements; he has Legiones Astartes(Emperors Children) and is an IC.

 

So yes, some special characters can take legion gear, but most don't meet the requirements.

Also I had a game against Death Guard today. 3 Medusae with Phosphex is terrifying.

1. The Void Shield Harness was MVP. Eliminating virtually any overwatch and being immune to potential Fury of the Legion is no joke.
2. Chain Fire works great if you don't roll double ones then roll them again...
3. Our RoW is deadly. Seekers in a Pod with Plasma are extraordinary dangerous. They got my 3 points on turn one. Would have been 4 is Nex actually hit anything. They got vaporized by the Medusae but it was worth it.
4. Anvillus pod with a dread was perfect. Deep strike far away, flat out 18" then move 6" and disembark 6" and charge.
5. Shroud bombs are always useful.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Nusquam

[Tiger9gamer]

thats awesome to hear! do you have a link to your list? and is there anything that really stopped infiltration or caused the game to turn suddenly?

[Nusquam]

It was mostly RG "Good Stuff". A friend and I were testing out a bunch of things form our legions.

 

• HQ (480pts)
  • Legion Centurion (165pts)

    Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Refractor Field, Void Shield Harness

    • Consul

      Chaplain

  • Legion Centurion (155pts)

    Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Psychic Mastery Level 2, Refractor Field

    • Consul

      Librarian

  • Moritat-Prime Kaedes Nex (160pts)

    Infravisor

• Troops (410pts)
  • Legion Tactical Squad (205pts)

    9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade

    • Legion Tactical Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon

  • Legion Tactical Squad (205pts)

    9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade

    • Legion Tactical Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon

• Elites (940pts)
  • Apothecarion Detachment (130pts)
    • Legion Apothecary

      Artificer Armour, Power Sword

    • Legion Apothecary

      Artificer Armour, Power Sword

  • Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (235pts)
    • Legion Contemptor Dreadnought

      Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Extra Armour, 2x Plasma Blaster

  • Mor Deythan Strike Squad (575pts)

    10x Combi-weapon(6 flamer, 4 melta), Darkwing Storm Eagle, Melta Bombs, 9x Mor Deythan

• Fast Attack (720pts)
  • Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100pts)
  • Dark Fury Assault Squad (220pts)

    4x Dark Fury, Melta Bombs

    • Any Dark Fury may upgrade their Pair of Lightning Claws to:

      4x Pair of Raven's Talons

  • Legion Seeker Squad (400pts)

    9x Combi-weapon, Legion Drop Pod, 9x Legion Seeker Space Marines

    • Legion Strike Leader

      Artificer Armour, Infravisor, Power Weapon

• • •  

• Legion
  • Legion Astartes

    XIX: Raven Guard

• Lord of War (450pts)
  • Corvus Corax (450pts)

    Primarch

    • Master of the Legion

 

It wasn't supposed to be anything impressive. We just took stuff we wanted to try and threw dice at each other. He took Morturg who has infiltrate, Master of Ambush and Endurance. SO many outflanking Grave Wardens. He also had a big group of Deathshroud. I feel if he took a pred squadron or basilisks instead it would have been me on the defensive. DGs RoW gives everything Move through Cover so he had tanks rolling around immune to immobilizing themselves.

 

To expand further:

• I'm not taking Nex in games above 2k. There is just too much on the board they will shoot him off immediately. Or he'll be in my backfield on defense; which while not terrible he's less likely to do anything and just be avoided.
• Never underestimate the power of a Sarg with Artificers armor and an Apoth to tank wounds. If I hadn't had Corax then my Furies would have be tar-pitted for sure.
• Corax is a very unique primarch. I had trouble deciding if I wanted him to be deployed alone or deepstrike separately. In the end I had him DS with the Furies. In this particular scenario(Hammer and Anvil, Purge the Alien) it didn't matter. But if objectives had been a factor then deploying him alone,b ut not the closest target, would have had him hunting his scoring separately from the Furies. He definitely doesn't need to have a body guard like most primarchs, he's mobile and can handle himself. His ability to kill upwards of 13 Tac marines a turn is brutal (6 base, +1 charge, +d3 scourge, +d3 S5 AP3 HoW). Plus shroud bombs and hit and run.
• The Void Shield Harness did wonders but that's because I had Seekers and a Contemptor in his line to soak damage that could have popped the Shield. If they were alone as a vangaurd in such a big game they would have been gunned down easily. I had them DS in my zone and then hop from one infiltrated tac squad to the next. Each one was a 20 man blob with an Apoth and 2+ Sarg. I only managed to kill them thanks to sweeping advances. If Mortarion as there to make them all stubborn it would have been a different game.
• I didn't actually infiltrate anything because I didn't know if I would win the roll off. If I lost I was concerned he would have spread out his dudes to cover as much board as possible and either put me in a corner or make it so I couldn't deploy them.
• One Tac squad took all the brunt from the Medusae after the Seekers evaporated. Fortunately they were in a ruin with an Apoth. The other one was hidden guarding a flank against anything trying to outflank.They were a perfect diversion.
• I'm in love with my Seekers in a pod. I did do a high-risk high-reward alpha strike with them and it paid off a little. I managed to stay one point ahead until Corax and Crew started their genocide. Would have been two points if Nex didn't roll double snake-eyes. Alternatively there was a Tac squad he managed to infiltrate in my backfield that would have seen First Blood and a Kill Point but I opted for his Destroyers with attached Siege Breaker and marked them with Nex as well. Either tactic would have worked but I wanted the strong start for the shock factor.
• The Anvillus pod did everything I wanted it to. My opponent had a Sicaran but I was able to flat out the pod to get a 4+ from ruins anyway. It was able to deliver the Contemtpor right next to his Medusae. He killed one with his plasma blasters alone.

That's all I can think of now.

 

Also just noticed I totally cheated and took two Consuls. My bad. The Librarian literally did nothing the whole game anyway. So it didn't affect the game enough to really matter.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Nusquam

[Tiger9gamer]

naughty naughty   eh it's fine. really interesting to hear how corax did though, along with the pod of seekers. sounds like a lot of firepower came down on turn 1/2. Do you think corax would have been good infiltrating instead of deep striking? 

 

 

at first I thought you said you wouldn't take mauv in those games and almost had a brainstorm trying to figure out why, lol.

[Nusquam]

Being able to take the cheap pods, with internal guidance, as dedicated transports without Orbital Assault RoW is great. In bigger/more serious games you have to be careful and weigh the risks and rewards of potentially getting a unit stuck in the middle of an opponents force.

 

Taking his alternate loadout to give him infiltrate(Normally he doesn't)? It's only for a special mission and campaign. Plus he's much better off with his pack.

[Nusquam]

Been brainstorming some ways to best use Destroyers, because apparently I'm obsessed with them. Namely for Strategic Raid missions as the Attacker. My original thought was Moritat+Squad in a rhino. Infiltrate, scout hop out and render some unfortunate unit unto oblivion or Chain Fire from the top hatch. I wasn't convinced with the rhino. Then I noticed that they can take a Land Raider Proteus as a DT. You can give it an Explorator Augery Web and it gains scout and can disrupt enemy reserves or improve you own(Which on it's own is great). Also no enemy unit can infiltrate within 24". Sure it's not an assault vehicle but Destroyers don't need to assault, especially if you have a Chain Firing Moritat or infiltrate/scout move anyway.  Infiltrate/scout to within 12" of your intended victims target move 6" disembark 6". With good positioning you could block LoS to you Destroyers once they are unloaded and let them go to town. The two LCs, optional multimelta, can potentially pop a transport to let the Destroyers access the contents. Alternatively you can outflank it. Which combined with Corax giving them Acute Senses(for non SRMissions) it can be deadly. And if you're facing Alpha Legion or Morturg you can mitigate their infiltration. Sure the packs are cheaper, but a LR is much tougher and can take down vehicles the Destroyers prey like to hide in. It also offer unique bonuses.

 

I also like the concept of it. At some point somebody thought: "We're exploring this unknown planet. A Proteus would do well in the strange environment. Hmn... Let's also put a squad of some of the most suitably equipped for maximizing casualties and murdercentric Marines in it possible. Just in case everything there needs to die."

Edited December 16, 2014 by Nusquam

[Tiger9gamer]

I can get how the raider is good but can you please elaborate on ho good destroyers are?

[Nusquam]

They Sarg can get up to three phosphex bombs, and they have access to rocket launchers with Rad missiles which are small blasts, cut through marine armor, fleshbane and radphage. So you can cut down large groups of marines and debuff admech automata or other big critters. They each dual-wield pistols, which doubles their awesome factor in my book. Should they get charged they have Counter Attack and Rad grenades. So the idea is that they get close, like above, and unleash several blasts that have low AP and wound easily. It's also a good way to deliver a Moritat.

 

Sure you could take plasma support or the like but Destroyers get a bufftastic LR as a DT so if you're using the RG RoW it won't eat up your one HS. So you can still get a Fire Raptor or something. Plus if the LR survives it can go on to transport/support units you pod'd in.

[Slips]

Nusquam hit the nail on the head.

 

The only reason why we don't see destroyers more is their Cost. The Land Raider is great but, if you want to deal more Infantry Damage with them, you might be better off taking 10 men for 2 Missile Launchers (can only have 1 if you include a Moritat in a LR Proteus) and Giving them All Jump Packs. And since its a fixed price for giving them Jump Packs, you're better off maxing out the squad for better efficiency.

 

But thats just me.

 

...

 

I also have a disposition to maxing out squads over running minimum sized :p

[Tiger9gamer]

Oh I see now. that does sound fun! have you used it yet?