[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[SkimaskMohawk]

Blind also only happens at the end of the phase, so you can't blind them before they swing back. That being said, you just huck a shroud bomb at them in the shooting phase.

 

They probably wanted to follow Jump troops not getting infiltrate. Also remember that you could charge off of infiltrate when going second in 6th so they probably didn't want the jump pack + infiltrate charges going down.

[suxdavide]

I see this topic is not as alive as the others chapters, although I'm here asking for advices.

 

I've been buying quite a decent amount of stuff for Alpha Legion ( shoulder pads etc ) but I've not been painting and a few other people in my playgroup started the XX... For this reason I decided to change and at first I went for Word Bearers but the loyalists were hugely fewer than traitors then I decided to help this friends of mine and match the Raven Guard, to me the only viable option (and closest legion to AL IIRC) of Emprah's fellows.

 

As of this I've some stuff I would use but wouldn't probably fit truly the legion's appeal so I'm here, again, asking for help.

 

What do you say?

 

I own a spartan but not a storm eagle, so if you find a way to include a spartan (at least for now) instead of that say it

 

++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2975pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Legion Centurion [175pts]: Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon

. Consul: Chaplain

. Relics of the Dark Age of Technology: Void Shield Harness

 

Legion Praetor [375pts]: Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Pair of Raven's Talons

. Legion Terminator Command Squad: 4x Legion Space Marine Chosen, 2x Pair of Lightning Claws, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecarion Detachment [170pts]

. Legion Apothecary

. . Additional Wargear: Artificer Armour, Chainsword/Combat Blade

. Legion Apothecary

. . Additional Wargear: Chainsword/Combat Blade, Jump Pack

. Legion Apothecary

. . Additional Wargear: Artificer Armour, Chainsword/Combat Blade

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [205pts]

. Legion Contemptor Dreadnought: Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons

 

Mor Deythan Strike Squad [205pts]: 5x Combi-weapon, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 4x Mor Deythan

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Breacher Siege Squad [385pts]: 19x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines

. Additional Wargear: 2x Volkite Charger

. Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Power Fist

. Standard Wargear: Boarding Shields

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [270pts]: Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Veteran Tactics: Resolve

. Additional Wargear: Melta Bombs, 2x Meltagun

. . Power Weapon: Power Axe

. . Power Weapon: Power Axe

. Legion Veteran Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword/Combat Blade

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [210pts]: 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen

. Additional Wargear: 2x Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web

. Legion Veteran Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword/Combat Blade

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Dark Fury Assault Squad [180pts]: 4x Dark Fury

. Chooser of the Slain: Melta Bombs

 

Darkwing Storm Eagle [295pts]: Armoured Ceramite

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought [220pts]: Aiolos Missile Launcher, Twin-linked Anvilius Pattern Autocannon Battery, Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter

 

Legion Heavy Support Squad [285pts]: Autocannon, 9x Legion Space Marines

 

+ Legion +

 

Legiones Astartes: XIX: Raven Guard, Loyalist

 

Rite of War: Pride of the Legion

 

+ Force Organization +

 

Force Organization

. Battles in the Age of Darkness: Age of Darkness Primary Detachment

 

++ Total: [2975pts] ++

Edited May 13, 2017 by suxdavide

[suxdavide]

up?

[Fangbanger]

drop the termie armour on the preator as he's not with terminators

 

make dark fury 10 man as 5 will die and a Chaplin with apoth is a bit of a waste for 5 man

 

same with Deythan, 5 on a dark wing seems a waste, just give them a rhino

 

You might want to l0ok at running decap strike and drop one of your heavy choices.

 

Most people are off playing 8th 40k so 30k threads are pretty quiet

[suxdavide]

drop the termie armour on the preator as he's not with terminators

 

make dark fury 10 man as 5 will die and a Chaplin with apoth is a bit of a waste for 5 man

 

same with Deythan, 5 on a dark wing seems a waste, just give them a rhino

 

You might want to l0ok at running decap strike and drop one of your heavy choices.

 

Most people are off playing 8th 40k so 30k threads are pretty quiet

 

Thanks for the hints

I'll be upgrading the furies and Deythan as soon as I get some money, which combiweapon would you choose? I was thinking about combiplasma but not sure.

 

The Praetor is supposed to be on the darkwing with his command squad (same here, I own these models and tried making the best out of them.) to be totally sincere I yet have to buy the wing and atm I'm shipping them via Spartan.

 

I'm not falling for the Breacher squad, I believe I'll change them into something else. I'll be posting an update once I'm home ^^

 

Thanks again

Edited August 17, 2017 by suxdavide

[The Red Angel]

 

drop the termie armour on the preator as he's not with terminators

 

make dark fury 10 man as 5 will die and a Chaplin with apoth is a bit of a waste for 5 man

 

same with Deythan, 5 on a dark wing seems a waste, just give them a rhino

 

You might want to l0ok at running decap strike and drop one of your heavy choices.

 

Most people are off playing 8th 40k so 30k threads are pretty quiet

 

Thanks for the hints

I'll be upgrading the furies and Deythan as soon as I get some money, which combiweapon would you choose? I was thinking about combiplasma but not sure.

 

The Praetor is supposed to be on the darkwing with his command squad (same here, I own these models and tried making the best out of them.) to be totally sincere I yet have to buy the wing and atm I'm shipping them via Spartan.

 

I'm not falling for the Breacher squad, I believe I'll change them into something else. I'll be posting an update once I'm home ^^

 

Thanks again

 

 

in a rhino? combi flamer. every. single. time. 

 

They will get out and hit something with 5 str 4, rending, twinlinked flame templates and wipe it off the board, Dracarys style. Most things struggle with that.

 

Defo drop the 2 heavy supports, take one, run decap strike and i'd say take maun. Rerolling to go 1st and seize is silly good. means you can deploy wherever around your opponent and go first cause infiltrate.

 

drop the breachers for a 20 man tactical, if they're your objective holders, 20 man tactical will do the same job. Chuck a chaplain with boarding shield in there, they wont move. Defensive grenades and hatred when you get charged.

 

 

Raven Guard excel at being fast moving. Hit hard, move fast.  Fire Raptor is pretty good HS choice, can shoot a different thing with every weapon system, reasonable anti tank etc. anti marine weapons. just ignore any spartans tbh.

[suxdavide]

 

 

drop the termie armour on the preator as he's not with terminators

 

make dark fury 10 man as 5 will die and a Chaplin with apoth is a bit of a waste for 5 man

 

same with Deythan, 5 on a dark wing seems a waste, just give them a rhino

 

You might want to l0ok at running decap strike and drop one of your heavy choices.

 

Most people are off playing 8th 40k so 30k threads are pretty quiet

 

Thanks for the hints

I'll be upgrading the furies and Deythan as soon as I get some money, which combiweapon would you choose? I was thinking about combiplasma but not sure.

 

The Praetor is supposed to be on the darkwing with his command squad (same here, I own these models and tried making the best out of them.) to be totally sincere I yet have to buy the wing and atm I'm shipping them via Spartan.

 

I'm not falling for the Breacher squad, I believe I'll change them into something else. I'll be posting an update once I'm home ^^

 

Thanks again

 

 

in a rhino? combi flamer. every. single. time. 

 

They will get out and hit something with 5 str 4, rending, twinlinked flame templates and wipe it off the board, Dracarys style. Most things struggle with that.

 

Defo drop the 2 heavy supports, take one, run decap strike and i'd say take maun. Rerolling to go 1st and seize is silly good. means you can deploy wherever around your opponent and go first cause infiltrate.

 

drop the breachers for a 20 man tactical, if they're your objective holders, 20 man tactical will do the same job. Chuck a chaplain with boarding shield in there, they wont move. Defensive grenades and hatred when you get charged.

 

 

Raven Guard excel at being fast moving. Hit hard, move fast.  Fire Raptor is pretty good HS choice, can shoot a different thing with every weapon system, reasonable anti tank etc. anti marine weapons. just ignore any spartans tbh.

 

ended up shrinking the points down to 2500 (and I[m not even sure I'll be able to deploy these in november) but this is what I made.

 

I need to buy the droppod but I hope they'll let me proxy one.

The apotecaries go with Termy / 20 man tac / dark furies.

Not sure if better to take deredeo (but works as antiflyer) or the autocannons.

Decided to include the support squad to have a bit of fire but again not sure.

 

I like the raven talons so if not very important I'd stick with them

 

 

 

++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2489pts] ++

+ HQ +

Centurion [125pts]: Boarding Shield, Bolt Pistol, None, Power Armour, Raven's Talons

. Consul: Chaplain

Legion Praetor [504pts]: Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Combi-Weapon, None, Pair of Raven's Talons

. Master of the Legion

. . Legion Terminator Command Squad: Combi-weapon, 4x Legion Space Marine Chosen, Legion Standard Bearer, 2x Pair of Lightning Claws, Terminator Armour

. . . Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod: Frag Assault Launchers

+ Elites +

Apothecarion Detachment [160pts]

. Legion Apothecary: Artificer Armour, Chainsword/Combat Blade

. Legion Apothecary: Chainsword/Combat Blade, Power Armor

. Legion Apothecary: Chainsword/Combat Blade, Jump Pack

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [205pts]

. Legion Contemptor Dreadnought: Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons

Mor Deythan Strike Squad [205pts]: 5x Combi-weapon, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 4x Mor Deythan

+ Troops +

Legion Tactical Squad [225pts]: 19x Legion Tactical Space Marines

. Additional Wargear: Bolters

. Legion Tactical Sergeant: Bolter

Legion Tactical Squad [160pts]: Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines

. Additional Wargear: Bolters

. Legion Tactical Sergeant: Bolter

Legion Tactical Support Squad Plasma Gun [360pts]: Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Space Marines, Plasma gun

. Legion Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Flamer

+ Fast Attack +

Dark Fury Assault Squad [325pts]: 9x Dark Fury

+ Heavy Support +

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought [220pts]: Aiolos Missile Launcher, Twin-linked Anvilius Pattern Autocannon Battery, Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter

+ Allegiance +

Legion and Allegiance:  XIX: Raven Guard, Loyalist

Rite of War: Decapitation Strike

++ Total: [2489pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 

 

or

 

 

++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2490pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Centurion [135pts]: Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack, Power Armour, Raven's Talons

. Consul: Chaplain

 

Legion Praetor [504pts]: Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Combi-Weapon, None, Pair of Raven's Talons

. Master of the Legion

. . Legion Terminator Command Squad: Combi-weapon, 4x Legion Space Marine Chosen, Legion Standard Bearer, 2x Pair of Lightning Claws, Terminator Armour

. . . Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod: Frag Assault Launchers

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecarion Detachment [160pts]

. Legion Apothecary: Artificer Armour, Chainsword/Combat Blade

. Legion Apothecary: Chainsword/Combat Blade, Power Armor

. Legion Apothecary: Chainsword/Combat Blade, Jump Pack

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought [180pts]: Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons x 2

 

Mor Deythan Strike Squad [205pts]: 5x Combi-weapon, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 4x Mor Deythan

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Assault Squad [266pts]: 16x Legion Assault Space Marines

 

Legion Tactical Squad [160pts]: Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines

. Additional Wargear: Bolters

. Legion Tactical Sergeant: Bolter

 

Legion Tactical Support Squad Plasma Gun [360pts]: Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Space Marines, Plasma gun

. Legion Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Plasma Gun

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Dark Fury Assault Squad [325pts]: 9x Dark Fury

 

Legion Land Speeder Squadron [195pts]

. Legion Land Speeder: Graviton Gun, Multi-melta

. Legion Land Speeder: Graviton Gun, Multi-melta

. Legion Land Speeder: Graviton Gun, Multi-melta

 

+ Allegiance +

 

Legion and Allegiance: XIX: Raven Guard, Loyalist

 

Rite of War: Decapitation Strike

 

++ Total: [2490pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

Edited August 22, 2017 by suxdavide

[MorgothNL]

Fellow Ravens, quick question: Where are we on Mor Deythan and the Implacable Advance rule?

It was there in the initial rules, gone in the reprint, re-added in the previous FAQ but seems to be gone now in the latest FAQ 

 

What is the current situation on implacable advance for Mor Deythan (and Seeker squads and Head Hunter Kill Teams for that matter)? 

[suxdavide]

In our playgroup we make them have it :)
I don't know about what FW says, I kinda lost track of them :P

[Gorgoff]

Pretty simple. Like they said in the latest FAQ only the latest rulebook or FAQ applies. Older versions doesn't count.

So...

Mor Deythan- no.

Seeker- yes.

Head Hunter- no.

[MorgothNL]

Fellow Ravens, quick question: Where are we on Mor Deythan and the Implacable Advance rule?

It was there in the initial rules, gone in the reprint, re-added in the previous FAQ but seems to be gone now in the latest FAQ 

 

What is the current situation on implacable advance for Mor Deythan (and Seeker squads and Head Hunter Kill Teams for that matter)? 

Annnnnd it's back :P :D. (New FAQ). 

Just waiting for the updated red book in the future for them to lose it again -.-

[suxdavide]

 

Fellow Ravens, quick question: Where are we on Mor Deythan and the Implacable Advance rule?

It was there in the initial rules, gone in the reprint, re-added in the previous FAQ but seems to be gone now in the latest FAQ 

 

What is the current situation on implacable advance for Mor Deythan (and Seeker squads and Head Hunter Kill Teams for that matter)? 

Annnnnd it's back . (New FAQ). 

Just waiting for the updated red book in the future for them to lose it again -.-

 

because of a copy paste ahah

[MorgothNL]

So, I've got a 3k tournament coming up and I'm no so sure about the list.

I did one playtest today, and it was a massacre. I was very unlucky so I don't think it was a good representation of the list, plus it was vs the worst opponent to face with the list. The mission was Blood Feud and the Deployment Hammer and Anvil. So infiltration was near useless. And I am running 7 infantry and 8 light vehicle units, where he was running 4 infantry and 5 vehicles (including a spartan and landraider). So If he killed 50% of my army, I had to kill 100% of his to win :P.

 

Anyways, here is the list, comments are welcome:

 

 

Loyalist

Decapitation Strike ROW

 

HQ

Praetor (Thunder hammer, digital lasers, iron halo, jump pack, master crafted, melta bombs)

 

Damocles Command Rhino

 

Moritat (2x plasma, melta bombs, jump pack, refractor field)

 

 

ELITES

2 Apothecary (1 with Jump pack and power sword, 1 with artificer armour)

 

Deathstrom Droppod

Deathstorm Droppod

 

9 Mor Deythan (3x plasma gun, artificer armour, melta bomb, 5 Combi flamer, 1 combi melta)

1 Rhino

 

 

TROOPS

10 Tacticals (artificer armour, melta bomb)

10 Tacticals (artificer armour, melta bomb)

 

7 Tactical support (meltaguns)

1 Droppod

 

7 Tactical support (plasma guns)

1 Droppod

 

 

FAST ATTACK

10 Dark Furies (melta bomb)

 

1 Javelin Speeder (CML, 2x HKM, Multi Melta)

1 Javelin Speeder (CML, 2x HKM, Multi Melta)

 

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

10 Lascannon heavy support (artificer armour)

 

 

The preator and Jump Apothecary join the Dark Furies. The artificer apothecary can join the lascannons or Mor Deythan depending on what kind of stuff I expect them to come up against. I'm thinking of maybe removing the rhino from the Mor Deythan and replacing all the combi weapons with sniper rifles, so they can stay at range. With only 2 vehicles on the table, the rhino tends to be destroyed very quickly, making the Mor Deythan end up in the open quite often. The TL flamers are great when they get into range, but getting them there isn't always worth the points you are paying for the squad, if they die afterwards due to being up close. Now with the implacable advance, they might be better of infiltrating near an objective or outflanking towards one.

 

The lascannons are another big questionmark. I really like the looks and I like the fluff of the army (Droppods, moritat and all infantry). But it's a crazy expensive squad that still can't effectively deal with a Spartan or Super Heavy and I have enough plasma, melta and missiles to deal with AV10-13 as is. I have a Fire raptor unpainted and could swap them for that... but I'm not sure if that is a good trade-off for my army.. and what do I add with the leftover pts?

 

I want to keep the deathstorms, moritat, dark furies, mor deythan (loadouts optional).

[suxdavide]

I'm still tweaking my mor deythan squad, atm I'm still fond on combiflamers+flamer but why wouldn't you "proxy" them for seekers and combiplasma? People often use headhunters for seekers and noone even cares :) I've never tested them with sniper rifles but I only had bad reviews of that loadout.

 

I kinda like the seekers, so I'm here suggesting them again, a squad of 10 seekers with combiplasma and 2 plasma should have the same cost of the support with 7 plasma, you may consider those (since they'd jump in and die anyway)

 

Are the furies deep striking of starting on the field? They may be an overkill unit if they impact against a tactical/support squad but they will be unable to kill a killy unit elseway, that's why I'd give the praetor a paragon blade but your choice :)

[Slips]

Point of Order: Seekers can only ever take Combi-Weapons; they dont have access to actual special weapons like Plasma Guns.

[MorgothNL]

I'm still tweaking my mor deythan squad, atm I'm still fond on combiflamers+flamer but why wouldn't you "proxy" them for seekers and combiplasma? People often use headhunters for seekers and noone even cares I've never tested them with sniper rifles but I only had bad reviews of that loadout.

 

I kinda like the seekers, so I'm here suggesting them again, a squad of 10 seekers with combiplasma and 2 plasma should have the same cost of the support with 7 plasma, you may consider those (since they'd jump in and die anyway)

 

Are the furies deep striking of starting on the field? They may be an overkill unit if they impact against a tactical/support squad but they will be unable to kill a killy unit elseway, that's why I'd give the praetor a paragon blade but your choice

To proxy Mor Deythan for seekers, kind of takes the spirit out of the models and Raven Guard to me . Plus, I don't rate the seekers higher than the Mor Deythan (although the seekers do come it quite a bit cheaper). I do hear the same about the sniper load-out as you, that they are not worth it (I think maybe at 0-2pts per rifle they could be ok, but at 5pts per rifle...ugh).

The good think about the seekers, and the weird thing about the Mor Deythan, is that they could take a droppod in decapitation strike. But that still leaves the proxy thing.. hmm.

 

The furies come in via deepstrike most of the time, but this depends on the board, objective, opponent etc. The are quite a heavy points sink that probably never earn back the points. But I'm struggling to find a better way to use them. I could leave out the Preator and Apothecary, but then what and where would my warlord be? The praetor currently has a thunder hammer for WYSIWYG reasons until I magnetise him, but I'm in no hurry cause he does actually provide the extra punch the Dark Furies often lack (instant death on every wound vs 2W terminators). I'm very much open to the idea of taking the Praetor and perhaps even apothecary out of the DF squad if I have a cool alternative. 

 

EDIT: Important note, the tournament does not allow named characters, otherwise Maun would be in it.

Edited February 20, 2019 by MorgothNL

[MorgothNL]

Sooo, another quick RG rules question:

I think I've seen people mentioning here or somewhere else on the web, that RG rapier squads cannot infiltrate.

 

But:

BRB: infiltrate; 'you may deploy units that contain at least one model with this special rule last... '

 

Army list book: rapier = artillery, 2 crew members = infantry and have the legions astartes rule

 

RG special rule: 'each model with the legion astartes special rule gains a further special rule depending on their type'

Infanty = infiltrate and fleet.

 

So I see no reason ROW or RAI to not allow RG rapiers to infiltrate. The very clearly seem to comply with all the rules combined. Right?

[Gorgoff]

Yupp

[Charlo]

Infiltrate is a weird rule that had a lot of insane interactions before.

 

Now, going by what you've posted, it seems quite cut and dry!

[suxdavide]

Point of Order: Seekers can only ever take Combi-Weapons; they dont have access to actual special weapons like Plasma Guns.

You're right, I wrote seeker I thought veterans :P

[STC Logisengine]

I have been thinking a lot about destroyers lately, with the FAQ-19 and the arrival of Inferno they have become quite viable.

 

Base cost for 10 is now at 190.

Hardened armour helps with survivability against templates and light artillery

+1A means 4A a pop in the first round of combat

Toxiferan flamers from inferno (poison 3+, 6s to wound is Ap2) at 10pts? Yes please!

 

I wonder.

 

I think jumppacks (50pts) are detrimental, infiltrate and fleet are a much better way of negating the issues with 12" -range

A Proteus with 3x twl LC as a transport might be very well spent points and infiltrating Raiders are always fun.

 

Powerfist feels like a must-have on the sgt as with 3 base attacks (4 in first round) is a step up eventhough it gets nothing from radgrenades against MEQ (still useful aginst T7/8 though)

and while the claw has fractionally better statistics it doesn't have the utility of the fist. As i see it a claw is only worth it if you have jumppacks (for S5 vs T3 on charge) and have loaded up on meltabombs and foregone the Moritat.

 

What do you guys think?

[SkimaskMohawk]

I did the math on them, and raven guard destroyers are the third best destroyer out of the legions, but you need the jump packs to achieve it. Furious charge+rad allows for a very solid damage output, otherwise they don't have really any leg up on other legions

[Charlo]

I think it's harder to quantify the power of infiltration and fleet over raw numbers, but both should do decently.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Sure it's hard, infiltrate is one of the best abilities in the game for a reason.

 

But the thing is, destroyers have a very narrow use and that's close range engagement, they want to be in melee and leverage their short range weapons like phosphex and the new flamers. Now infiltrate really helps them get in position, but even with an out of Los infiltrate you still can't charge; most of the time you won't be in range with any of your weapons as you're pushed back 18".

 

Instead, you could take a unit like veterans, mor deythan or seekers, get implacable in the mix and give them weapon that will have an impact on the turn you infiltrate.

 

With jump packs, you have more ability to get into that critical range, you get access to deepstrike and you leverage the furious charge with rad grenades.

[STC Logisengine]

True, to use them without packs I think a transport is essential, both to weather incoming fire if you go second in the first turn and moving into range.

You do not get a first-turn charge this way but destroyers do have countercharge to mitigate this a bit, however, this strategy is best with a Moritat in the squad to augment the initial strike with Chainfire (as you can't charge anyway).

 

Jumppacks do give you more mobility but it will be very rare to get a first-turn charge in with them anyway (unless your opponent makes a mistake) and with jumppacks the Moritat becomes a bit of a problem as you can't leverage the strenghts of the jumppack on the charge every other turn (given that you wish to optimise the investment in the moritat).

 

The thing is, I am thinking about what tactical niches, what do you want each unit to do in your army. Why take destroyers instead of dark furies; by any stretch the superior assultunit?

To tell the truth, Destroyers are Rule of Cool, there are more efficient and easy-to-use units in the space that destroyers operate, that said they are far from useless but they have to rely more on synergies and tactical values rather than pure destructive force.

 

1. Moritats. Moritats need a squad (unless you can rely on the Phase Shifter to skip around the table) or they are very expensive mayflies on the battlefield and destroyers can use the boost in strikingpower and defence (always take cameleoline) that the moritat offer.

 

2. Tri-LC Proteus Raider. Placing that raider where it can rain enfilading fire from turn 1 will throw a massive spanner into your opponents battleplan. This needs a dedicated tankhunter in your main line to pull off so that the enemy can't just about face their front arcs towards the raider without exposing their sidearcs. (yes, you can do this with seekers too ofc)

 

3. Hunting battle-automata. Not something they should do unsupported but those radgrenades and 4 S8 Ap2 attacks from the sergeant goes a long way, especially againt thallaxii wich slides down to T4, more importantly you need to support that charge with something heavy-hitting. (I am partial to a unit of 3 Vorax with a Praevian, scout, infiltrate, fleet and furious charge is a nasty combo (12 S7 Ap2 Rending attacks) eventhough they are not as durable as the Castellax. Yes, RoC is strong here too)