[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea my group is definitely more of a use the loopholes unless its truly egregious; it's more of an "oh man nice find" type moment for us. 

[defl0]

It's also not a "loophole". It's literally how the rules would interact with how the rules are written. 

 

Making the assumption that some how the designer was trying to align it with "non legion" rules and thus we should change the meaning of the actual rules as written in the codex is just cray cray :) 

 

My bigger questions was how do you equip your Castellax differently depending on what rules you chose? 

 

1. Infiltrate & Fleet

2. Infiltrate & Furious Charge

3. Ingiltrate & Scout

4. Infiltrate & Tank Hunter

[Shrieker]

1. all choices valid

2. to maximise the extra attacks, i'd add the power blades

3. all choices valid, though potential for scouty 'spring attacks' / relocation would make darkfire a good go-to weapon

4. darkfire seems the better AT option.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Going back to the castelax thing, you don't actually get to have multiple rules. Because the Praevian is an IC his infiltrate doesn't spread, so you need to take the raven guard rules or the game breaks

[Terminus]

The robot unit is selected as part of the Praevian's unit so they are already a singular entity when placed on table, so they do get Infiltrate. The IC distinction would only matter if he had to join the unit during deployment.

 

In general, IC Infiltrate does confer to the unit they join, it's just the joining happens too late for them to actually infiltrate because they must have already been deployed for an Ic to join them. It is a way to grant a unit outflank though if he joins them in reserve.

 

Well gaining PE vs deathstars (with primarch or just the primus medicae) is going to please my plasma support squad. Or any mandatory HQ hiding in a 20 man blob.

Not sure that's what is being said. It still doesn't change the fact that the USR itself grants you preferred rerolls only against the specific target, just before some people thought the entire target unit had to be preferred against to get any rerolls at all. Edited December 1, 2016 by Terminus

[SkimaskMohawk]

Went back and reread the rule and you're totally right terminus. 

[Nusquam]

That's what the confusion was; the PE rule seemed to specifically work against only the stated type, IE only directly interacting with the correct type of model. Then the 'FAQ' comes along and says(erratas) that such rules, including PE, are used against mixed unit so long as the correct type is in there.

[defl0]

1. all choices valid

2. to maximise the extra attacks, i'd add the power blades

3. all choices valid, though potential for scouty 'spring attacks' / relocation would make darkfire a good go-to weapon

4. darkfire seems the better AT option.

 

 

1. Infiltrate & Fleet - I think this should be the hth anit tank build. Gives you the extra charge range if the tank moves. This is also really good throughout the game. 

2. Infiltrate & Furious Charge - Agreed. I think this is you mega bolter, power blades build

3. Ingiltrate & Scout - I was thinking multi melta might actually be the best choice here. You are likely starting within melta range of what ever you are hunting. 

4. Infiltrate & Tank Hunter - The darkfire seems the obvious choice here, although the multi melta seems pretty efficient as well. 

[Nusquam]

Got a game vs cybernetica tomorrow. I was going to dry drop podding in xenobane vets with combi-plas, but I decided to try the ReCo Corax+Outrider screen instead. Recon marines with rifles to harrow castellax. AMs and Outriders to screen corax(layered so outriders jink for a 2+, then provide a 5+ cover to the AMS becoming a 2+, with Corax in tow to trigger his Not!Invis).

 

Not sold on the xenobane vets. When they unload they'll do some serious damage against castellax, but then they don't have much else in the way of offense. Not like say, Marksmen vets who have sniper all game. But being able to do ~7 unsaved wounds to a castellax unit is no joke. Then 15 sniper marines will kill off the second. AMs and Outriders can scour thallax and thralls with Furious Charge and AP3. Corax can hunt things like Thanatar.

The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List v202) (2000pts)

• HQ (140pts)
  • Legion Centurion (140pts)

    Artificer Armour, Combat Shield, Jump Pack, Power Weapon, Volkite Serpenta

    • Consul

      Vigilator

• Elites (305pts)
  • Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (305pts)

    Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Veteran Tactics: Xenobane

    • Additional Wargear
      • Combi-weapon

        Combi-weapon: Plasma gun x9

    • Legion Veteran Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword/Combat Blade

      • Combi-weapon

        Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

• Troops (670pts)
  • Legion Assault Squad (220pts)

    9x Legion Assault Space Marines

    • Additional Wargear
      • Power Weapon

        Power Sword

      • Power Weapon

        Power Sword

    • Legion Assault Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Power Fist

  • Legion Reconnaissance Squad (150pts)

    Cameleoline, 4x Legion Space Marines, 5x Sniper Rifle

  • Legion Reconnaissance Squad (150pts)

    Cameleoline, 4x Legion Space Marines, 5x Sniper Rifle

  • Legion Reconnaissance Squad (150pts)

    Cameleoline, 4x Legion Space Marines, 5x Sniper Rifle

• Fast Attack (435pts)
  • Legion Outrider Squad (230pts)

    6x Legion Space Marine Outrider, 2x Power Weapon

    • Outrider Sergeant

      Power Fist

  • Xiphon Interceptor (205pts)
• Legion
  • Legiones Astartes

    XIX: Raven Guard, Loyalist

  • Rite of War

    Legion Recon Company

• Force Organization
  • Force Organization
    • Battles in the Age of Darkness

      Age of Darkness Primary Detachment

• Lords of War (450pts)
  • Corvus Corax (450pts)

 

I'll post anything I find noteworthy after.

 

Edit: Cancelled due to fathers kidney stone

Edited December 11, 2016 by Nusquam

[defl0]

In my experience, 9 seeker combi plasmas will almost kill off a 3 man castellax unit, so I expect the vets will do pretty well. 

 

BTW - Why the assault marines? Just a retinue for the centurion? I feel like you would be better off with power axes on the power weapon mooks in the squad. IS the Vigi is scout armor with a JP? 

[Nusquam]

Seekers will do about 6 unsaved wounds. That 1.5 castallax dead on average. Xenobane vets do about 7 but are cheaper.

Assault marines are for mobility and furious charge against thallax and thralls. Dont need more than ap3 and i want them swinging before I1 to kill as many as possible first.

 

Now that I think of it, thallax are only 4+ aren't they? Power mauls would be optimal. S7 AP4 on the charge for AMs and outriders would really do a number on medium sized automata since only the big things have 3+ or better.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Nusquam

[LtDan]

Thallax are 4+ castellex are 3+. I would say go with mauls if your playing mech alot.

[Druchii66]

Hello guys, this is my first post as I am new to this forum and to 30k. I have recently got 10 Tartaros Termis, how should I get them into cc ( in which transport) or should they be used in another way?

[Nusquam]

Best termi transport is a Caestus Assault Ram, but it's a heavy support. So if you use Decapitation Strike it will eat your sole Heavy slot, which isn't necessarily the end of the world it just depends on the rest of your list. The next best is a Darkwing Dedicated Transport. You can only take 8, but since it's a dedicated transport it won't eat up any of your slots. The third best is a regular Storm Eagle. You can take the full 10 but have to use a Fast Attack slot. After than an Anvillus is cheapest, but you can only fit 5 and no character. I don't really reccomend a Kharybdis, its expensive cash and points-wise. A Spartan is another one of their dedicated transports, but a lot of the meta revolves around spartan killing. It's too slow, expensive, and vulnerable for my taste.

[Fangbanger]

I'd have to disagree on a spartan being vulnerable, especially with the new faq and Melta Bombs. Yes they are costly but they are by far the most resilient and can be dedicated so no other slots needed.

 

Flyers are not the best idea for a CC unit. You want CC units on the table ASAP and with reserve rolls playing a part, you could see them ariving too late. Maun and Damocles can help with this.

 

I'd also say this tips in the kharybdis favour, don't be fooled it is no waste of points and is my favourite model for my world eaters as it stands out on the table so price tag is no big deal. The beauty with this is that it is guaranteed to come in turn 1 and pretty much where you want it. It can flat out if not, also has the ability to jink but you are lucky if it survives a turn but who cares, your termies are right where you want them. Sucks it eats up heavy slot and not DT.

 

The way you transport your termies will depend on the rest of your list but don't be fooled into thinking the kharybdis and spartan are not viable units. Flyers are good, but the earliest you will be assaulting is turn 3 and that's if all goes well

[Druchii66]

First, Thank you all! I have to say, i play 30k and corax' s sons stylewise. So i have drop pods, a Lot of Jump packs and recons. So i would prefer a drop pod style or Flyer. Spartan seemas To be realy well Doing his Thing, but doesnt fit in a my rg army

[Fangbanger]

Then the kharybdis, anvilus, Darkwing or ceastus is what you need

[Nusquam]

I'd have to disagree on a spartan being vulnerable, especially with the new faq and Melta Bombs. Yes they are costly but they are by far the most resilient and can be dedicated so no other slots needed.

 

Flyers are not the best idea for a CC unit. You want CC units on the table ASAP and with reserve rolls playing a part, you could see them ariving too late. Maun and Damocles can help with this.

 

I'd also say this tips in the kharybdis favour, don't be fooled it is no waste of points and is my favourite model for my world eaters as it stands out on the table so price tag is no big deal. The beauty with this is that it is guaranteed to come in turn 1 and pretty much where you want it. It can flat out if not, also has the ability to jink but you are lucky if it survives a turn but who cares, your termies are right where you want them. Sucks it eats up heavy slot and not DT.

 

The way you transport your termies will depend on the rest of your list but don't be fooled into thinking the kharybdis and spartan are not viable units. Flyers are good, but the earliest you will be assaulting is turn 3 and that's if all goes well

 

With maun getting your flyer on turn 2 is almost guaranteed. A land raider isnt going to get the unit into CC until turn 3 either, two at the earliest if they deployed really close to you for some reason. Like they have their own spartan. And legions like Salamanders, DG, EC, are going to have better termi units than you and you dont want to fight them fair. A flyer makes it so you can pick and choose more readily what you want to assault. Since you're likely to go first they will just deploy away from the spartan. Or if you do go second they have another shooting phase against it.

 

As for spartans, they aren't as tough as people make them out to be. Barrage, haywire, or simply fast or flying vehicles all bypass the flare shield. They are tough, sure, but I really think they're popularity exceeds their actual capability. I would take a Kharybdis first and fill it up. They're expensive(especially cash wise) for whats just a really big drop pod, but they can work. I just personally dont want to spend hundreds on a drop pod ha.

[Fangbanger]

My spartan history is that from a World eaters perspective so probably why I see the benefit in them more than someone who doesn't play with a combat army, but just 1 unit (I want to be close to ALL of the things, even firedrakes with my tac marines ;-)

 

All the other flyers are going to cost you 100 notes anyway, so what's another 60 for the big boy!

 

Termies out of a Eagle look cool too

[Rhaivaen]

Anybody have any ideas on the Caestus for a scout company? I am looking for the Stormwolf conversion to make some cheaper Caestus..

Yeay or nay?

[Nusquam]

One stormwolf is too small, two are the cost of a caestus.

[Rhaivaen]

The advantage is though, that it will be all plastic, not resin :)

So any tactical ideas about it's use?, specifically in a scout company?

[Nusquam]

Do you mean the Recon Company rite of war? Or is your army fluffed as a scout company?

 

Rams are primarily boarding action or line breaking with terminators since it can hold 10.

[Rhaivaen]

Well, (raven guard) Recce RoW yes, sorry if I am vague.

I am interested in flyers for my marines, with no heavy tanks (marine-wise) and no termi's ,

aka only fast moving troops and skimmers/ flyers.

HS will be flyers and devastator marines.probably Heavy flamers 1 unit and Plasma cannons another.

The three flyers (Caestus Rams) + a unit of Plasma cannons should be enough AT.

I like the idea of the Rams instead of the Storm eagle/ Fire raptor everyone seems to want.. (even though I like it by looks to).

[Nusquam]

A few things:

If you use the Recon Company your heavy support have to start in reserves, so any heavy support squads would have to walk on. There's also only 3 heavy support squads so you couldn't have 3 rams and 1 HSS.

 

The Ram is usually a go-to for Termis, but it is good at delivering power armor being so armored. Gives a new meaning to Recon in Force, ha.