[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[defl0]

With solar:

 

Axilla tactical command section

Veltaris lasrifle Section

3 X Axuilla rapier battery quad mortars 

Bombard

 

For 535 pts you get a one shot s9 large ordinance barrage pinning shot, 1 S6 ap3 IGNORE cover large template, and 12 s8 sunder shots or 12 s5 -1 ld pinning 3" templates and 25 mooks in your back field. 

 

Kind of a nice little ally detachment... and works great with RG. 

 

The other thing that caught my eye was tarantula guns can take a drop capsule! 140 pts 3 independent t6 2W deepstriking twin linked lascannons? I mean a heavy weapon squad is going to cost you that per guy. What an annoying msu concept. Although I guess they snap shot the turn they come in?

Edited January 27, 2015 by defl0

[Nusquam]

We can already take rapiers and infiltrate them so I wouldn't recommend taking Solar versions.

 

If I took Solar I would go one of two directions: Artillery or Tank Blitz.

 

Solar Auxilia (Allied Detachment) (650pts)

• HQ (100pts)
  • Auxilia Tactical Command Section (100pts)

    5x Additional Veteran Auxilia

    Close Formation Fighting, Disciplined Command, Disciplined Fire

• Troops (190pts)
  • Auxilia Infantry Tercio (190pts)
    • Aegis Defence Line

      Quad Gun

    • Auxilia Lasrifle Section

      Sergeant

      Close Formation Fighting, Disciplined Fire, Hold the Line

• Heavy Support (360pts)
  • Auxilia Artillery Tank Battery (360pts)

    Auxilia Bombard, Auxilia Bombard

    Explorer Adaptation

 

Take advantage of the bombards to take out tac blobs and snipe out vexilas. The Command and Las sections offer fire support to our forward units from a small firebase. This is more for infiltrate heavy lists as you don't want to leave your SA unsupported. though it can work well if you have a VERY high alpha strike list on the RG side of things.

 

Or

 

Solar Auxilia (Allied Detachment) (945pts)

• HQ (310pts)
  • Auxilia Tactical Command Section (310pts)

    5x Additional Veteran Auxilia

    Close Formation Fighting, Disciplined Command, Disciplined Fire

    • Dracosan Armoured Transport

      Armoured Ceramite, Demolisher Cannon, Flare Shield

      Explorer Adaptation

• Troops (325pts)
  • Auxilia Infantry Tercio (325pts)
    • Dracosan Armoured Transport

      Armoured Ceramite, Demolisher Cannon, Flare Shield

      Explorer Adaptation

    • Veletaris Storm Section

      Prime

      Close Formation Fighting, Deflagrate, Disciplined Fire, Hold the Line, Move Through Cover

• Heavy Support (310pts)
  • Auxilia Malcador Infernus Special Weapons Tank (310pts)

    Armoured Ceramite, Chemical Ammunition

    Explorer Adaptation, Highly Flammable

 

A mobile, tough, and heavily armed vanguard. RG units like Mor Deythan, Dark Furies, Seekers etc kill things and move on while the SA units provide close support and grab midfield objectives.

 

Or inversely can work with infiltrate heavy lists too. The SA units go into the mix and RG support from advantageous positions.

 

The Malcador Infernus is more for higher games. Not only can it take out tac and termis it can stay mobile and take a beating.

[defl0]

Wait. RG rapiers can infiltrate? Aren't they artillery? Not infantry?

 

Also the solar ones have shatter shells. 4 S8 sundering is mean for 60 pts!

[Slips]

They technically can infiltrate since the Sarge and Firer both have Legion Astartes: Raven Guard.

[Nusquam]

Legion rapiers also have shattershells. It's hard to find in book one, but was corrected in the red book.

[Hammer of Olympia]

Heya Fellas

for a starter 1000 points Raven guard,what would you bring to the table? 

[defl0]

We can already take rapiers and infiltrate them so I wouldn't recommend taking Solar versions.

 

Well that just changes everything... Elites get really tight really quick. 

 

I think it totally finishes my Adeptiocn list though.

 

1850 Adepticon List

Edited January 28, 2015 by defl0

[Nusquam]

Depends on your style preference. At the core you'll want Tac marines infiltrating. RG Tactics and RoW play well to strike and shock tactics so it's hard to go wrong with Mor Deythan in a Darkwing. I recommend Combi-flamers. All that and, say, a Vigilator would almost exactly fit in 1k.

 

Or if you wanted an ambush style list you could take Plasma Support Squads and a battery of 3 Thuddguns and infiltrate them instead of Mor Deythan.

[defl0]

Yeah. At 1000 points so much % is going going into your 2 troops and hq, i would invest a little more and make them useful.

 

At 1000 point 20 infiltrating tacs with bolter & pistol / ccw, sgt with articifer power axe and melta bombs and a chaplain with a camo cloak and melta bombs sounds like a nightmare to deal with to me.

 

leaves you a little under 500 points to get some mor deythan. Maybe some infiltrating rapiers.

[Hesh Kadesh]

If you need AP3 shifting help in 30k lists you're doing it wrong. Ignores cover is alright but without S8 there is no bottoming out FNP.

[Nusquam]

But there is sniping out Apothecaries. One blast landing on the Apoths head and hitting say 3-4 other marines. Half will pass LoS and one might pass FnP. It's rare that I see AA on an Apoth since they're tucked away so neatly in blobs. Even so, a 5+ is better than a 4+ for being tucked into ruins.

 

It's not just Marines you'll be fighting either. Solar Aux and Thralls are only T3. All those Las sections with medics behind Aegis lines will have bad day and Revenant Alchemistry won't save those Thralls.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Very valid points. However, AdMech and Solar Auxilia are still in their infancy at the moment, and aren't half as fun to play around with the lists as the Legion lists are (there are what, 14 legions including the two options for legions without rules), with a definite 4 rites of war to manipulate one FoC and 4 other FoC's including Cityfight, so that's 9 base lists for 126 different variations, with the other 12 full legions having access to a 5th Rite of War for 138 different ways of building the Crusade Army List.

 

At the moment, AdMech have a pretty set power build.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[defl0]

I started thinking about fortifications wroth allies as well.

 

5 Myrmidons, 4 with Conversion Beamers, one with an Irradiation Engine, and a Ordinator Magos wielding a Master Crafted Conversion Beamer Is a sick unit.

 

The magos adds tank hunter, the myrmidons give him Preferred Enemy. Irradiation Engine trooper shots the icarus.

 

Nasty unit you will be up in the gave of your enemy and keeping them pinned down range.

[Nusquam]

You could use a Siege breaker consul to infiltrate them to maximize the beamers and have the Magos become an Archmagos with djinnskien to give them +1BS while still retaining tank hunters. Plus if you take a Thanatar you can use the magos for LoS.

 

Autocorrect is annoying.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Nusquam

[defl0]

I don't think the seige breaker confers infiltrate to them unfortunately. You can't technically join the IC to the unit before infiltration.The order of operations doesn't work.

 

That said, yeah it makes it even better.

 

I think you can get pretty good placement in most missions with objectives at least as you can actively stack weight one side.

[Nusquam]

I can safely say that RAI, as well as numerous events FAQ I've seen, and just players in general allows it. Best example being Shrike; if it weren't RAI then his infiltrate rule does nothing.

 

But I digress.

 

Just did some double-checking. The Archmagos can only get Djinnskien if he's Warlord unfortunately. The Ordinator also only applies Tank Hunter and Wrecker to his attacks only.

 

An Archmagos Malagra can be a good addition to a Dark Fury squad however; Access to Rad Grenades, Paragon Blades and cheap Powerfists could put on some hurt on. With the economy version being a normal Malagra and just having fists.

[defl0]

Actually the reason shrike can do  it and no one else can is because he has a special rule the reads, "BEFORE DEPLOYING, he may only join squads of jump infantry." It sounds like a dis-qualifier but it's actually a qualifier allowing him to join a unit Prior to deployment. 

 

Think about it, you would have things like infiltrating karanderas infiltrating jet biker seer councils and stupid things like that all over the game if infiltrating characters could convey it to their squad.

 

 

Anyway, that's a good call on the archmagos. Rad grenades really bump the killing power up on some units. I've been trying to figure out how to get rad grenades with power axe terminators. Since not only do you drop other termies to T3 and you are +1 on the charge with furious charge and +1 AP 2 from the axe, so you are oblitiing 2 wound terminators. 

[Nusquam]

It's not allowing anything, "before deploying" doesn't give him permission join a unit it just tells you when he joins it, it's actually only restricting what type he joins but it's so obvious that he's supposed to infiltrate people allow it; but that's already been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere. I've tried emailing GW about it several times but to no avail. The big circuit events allowing it is the best example, such as Adepticon 2015, of any informed decision on it.

 

Just remember that ICs still can't go in allied transports in 30k. Which drives me nuts. Otherwise I would cram him with Termis in a Darkwing and go to town. As such fists are probably still the way to go for your instant death needs and even in a pinch high AV punching.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Actually the reason shrike can do  it and no one else can is because he has a special rule the reads, "BEFORE DEPLOYING, he may only join squads of jump infantry." It sounds like a dis-qualifier but it's actually a qualifier allowing him to join a unit Prior to deployment. 

 

Think about it, you would have things like infiltrating karanderas infiltrating jet biker seer councils and stupid things like that all over the game if infiltrating characters could convey it to their squad.

 

 

Anyway, that's a good call on the archmagos. Rad grenades really bump the killing power up on some units. I've been trying to figure out how to get rad grenades with power axe terminators. Since not only do you drop other termies to T3 and you are +1 on the charge with furious charge and +1 AP 2 from the axe, so you are oblitiing 2 wound terminators. 

You really need to read the rules regarding Independent Characters and deploying.

 

 

7th Edition Rulebook; Independent Characters

Joining and Leaving a Unit

An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in Reserve, by you informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

 

While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters.

 

...

 

When an Independent Character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit’s special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character’s special rules are not conferred upon the unit. Special rules that are conferred to the unit only apply for as long as the Independent Character is with them.

 

Independent Characters and Infiltrate

An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note that in other legions, this actually allows units without Infiltrate joined by non-Infiltrating characters joined by a Vigilator deploy via infiltrate, because;

 

 

7th Edition Rulebook; Special Rules

Infiltrate

Units that contain at least one model with this special rule are deployed last, after all other units (friend and foe) have been deployed.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[defl0]

Lol. What? The rules are crystal clear on this one. Read what you just posted. :)

 

p 166. Independent Characters:

 

"Joining and Leaving a Unit:

 

An Indpendant character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency or, if the unit is in reserve, by informing your opponent of which unit it has joined."

 

It can't be clearer. There are only two ways for an IC to join a unit during deployment. In reserve or in unit coherency. So unless your IC and your unit  have infiltrate, you are not going to be able to deploy the IC into unit coherency. 

 

Infiltrate doesn't put you in reserve. That has been this way since 3rd edition. There simply is no way to get an IC into a squad and confer his infiltrate power to the squad...

 

On a side note, you can give a unit outflank but joining them in reserves. Which is really the only thing the vigilator is good for...

 

But infiltrate? Not possible...

 

Trust me. I wish it was different. 

Edited January 31, 2015 by defl0

[defl0]

oh, and to reiterate. Shrike can do it because he is allowed to join a unit BEFORE deployment, thus letting him convey his infiltrate rule. 

[Nusquam]

Let's not do this here, there were 3 threads in Official Rules on this subject alone. Dozens more across other sites. The point of Shrikes rule not working came up, the point of Vigilators not being able to infiltrate came up, Cypher and Shadowsun too and nothing came of it. Nothing. Everything I've said and has been said in this thread has been repeated dozens of times elsewhere. There is nothing new to contribute.

 

Like I said I'm going off of big events like Adepticon allowing it to supplement my reasoning as the whole issue is off imperfect rules to begin with.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Nusquam

[defl0]

Agreed. For another thread. 

 

And yes, I can confirm that Adepticon does have a rule addendum change allowing ICs to join squad prior to deployment.

 

"An Independent Character that has the Infiltrate special rule can join a unit that does not have Infiltrate during deployment allowing them all to infiltrate together"

[Nusquam]

I was looking at Outrider squads and forgot that any bike can take a TL Plasma gun. Take a few of those, some Power Axes and go infantry hunting. I also got thinking about rad grenades and using axes to double out FnP; Forge Lords can take Rad Grenades and bikes. Outflanking Outriders with S6 AP2 and Rad Grenades can do some serious work, especially with some TL plasmagun shooting. Not cheap but it's effective. Arrive, blast infantry or rear/side armor, jink from any retaliatory shots and then charge. Access to meltabombs too.

 

Bonus S8 Ap2 strike from the servo arm. Could also take Castellax through him if you really wanted for a good anchor in the backfield.

 

If you wanted to maximize his potential rules(I.E. not miss out on using battlesmith) he's a prime candidate for accompanying Terminators in a Darkwing to make use of Rad Grenades.

 

Alternatively you can take power lances(the inadvertent restriction from reminder text on power weapons from book 1 is gone in the red books), +1S and AP3 and strike at initiative but those are only good on the charge.

 

I'm thinking of taking two units of 5; upgrade one to a sarge with an axe, take another power axe, and give them TLPGs. Outflank and hunt things. That's 310 for 7 S6 AP2 and 9 S5 AP- attacks on the charge with upwards of 10 S7 AP2 shots into something beforehand each. Biggest thing to watch out for would be a fury of the legion attack from a tac blob. So you'll have to time/coordinate attacks if such a situation arises.

 

You can also sue them as an escort for outflanking or scouting units in rhinos like Mor Deythan, Destroyers, Seekers, Support Squads etc. If you have Corax then bonus for acute senses.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Consider this; it's a bit gamey, but still;

 

Outriders+Forge Lord on Bike

Centurion, Cameleoline (on foot)

 

The Forge Lord can join because it happens at the same time as the Centurion, and the unit doesn't actually have Infiltrate, while Infiltrate only requires one model with the rule to actually infiltrate.

 

So, you can deploy 12-18" away with your unit, followed by a Scout move. Because each model in a unit can move up to its maximum allowed, this allows you to "rubber band" around the Centurion with the 12" Outriders. If during the first turn, you get shot at, the presence of Stealth from the Cameleoline gives you a 3+ Jink Save against shooting on the first turn.

 

The Forge Lord can take Artificer, Boarding Shield, and Cyber Familiar for a 2+/4++, and grant Infiltrate to the Terminators.

 

The Power Lance restriction is not removed, however; page 86 LACAL, "A Note on Power Weapons".