Grey Knights 7e Codex Rumor

[thraxdown]

They didn't use the Sisters Blood to, not die. GKs die all the time.

 

They used the Sister Blood so the Bloodtide would not corrupt them. GKs are never corrupted.

 

That's the issue.

I always imagined Grey knights are not incorruptible, but they've remained uncorrupted because the wardings and their discipline of mind. It's not that they are impervious to the siren song of chaos, but rather they have the awareness to see it for what it is and resist it.

 

I prefer the blood tide to stay in as when gw decides to move the story forward in ten years and the Grey knights fall to chaos it is firmly established that they follow Khorne

[Valerian]

Apart from the new relics I am not aware of any new options, and we can be pretty certain that there are no new units in the codex as there are no new kits. I imagine most of the codex is tidying things up, adjusting points costs and cutting down on the number of wargear options like many of the previous 7th ed and 6th ed codexes have done. 

 

  There's honestly not too much to be excited over, the points costs look to match up the same but I imagine the basic army won't really change. Pure Grey Knights will only need the new dex, whereas comboing with Coteaz will require the Inq dex. Librarian getting cheaper gives up a cheap HQ option which was needed with the inquisitors going.

 

  I'm a little disappointed that there's no new kits or units, but given that GW seems to have decided to accelerate the codex release schedule to fit every army in before new edition I don't feel I have a right to complain too much. Making new kits is expensive and time consuming and players have been wanting GW to speed up the release schedule for years. The price of that speeding up was always going to be some releases that didn't give you awesome new toys to play with, just new rules for the old ones. That pill is made rather more bitter with Inquisition and Assassins being split off and being charged quite a bit to get hold of at the same time, meaning someone who fielded an army with an Inquisitor and an Assassin as well as grey knights will need to fork over nearly $70 to get the new rules for his models. If this is a pattern for the future (I can see Necrons and Blood Angels getting a very similar 'just codex and cards' release) I kind of wish they had left Grey Knights for later and made some time to come up with a new kit to make up for losing Inq and Assassin rules all at once, but then I don't know what their schedule looks like for the near future. 

 

  Pricing aside I am actually a fan of the split off Inquisition and Assassins, I like that other forces can more easily and distinctly take them and that the Grey Knight Codex is pure Grey Knights. It's just made for a rather underwhelming release his time around.

 

Well, one thing to get excited about is that if you're a 'pure' Grey Knights player (one of us who has already preferred the actual Knights over Henchmen and/or Inquisitorial Storm Troopers from the 3e dex), then it is highly likely that we'll finally get a codex that allows us to play with 'pure' Knights without putting ourselves at a huge disadvantage.  If done well, to achieve good internal/external balance, with the right mixture of special rules and abilities, then the fact that we're not getting new units is a non-issue, for me, at least.  I didn't want new units; I wanted the old units to work.

 

I have been disappointed for years that the 'common wisdom' was that you had to spam cheap Inquisitors and Henchmen to make Grey Knights work.  I'm cautiously optimisitc that'll no longer be the case in this upcoming version.  *crosses fingers* 

 

V

[thraxdown]

But in theory they could have done that without removing all of the inquisitor stuff. So those of us who used a mixture of both can't do that anymore, unless we buy another book of course! I always vary my lists so assassins and various war bands are common in my army lists, as well as pure knights on occasion. I appreciate that this does not bother people that this will affect, but there are many players this kind of screws over. All of my inquisition models will be going on the shelf for the time being

[Gentlemanloser]

Basically, that. ;)

 

Removal of a third of the units from the GK Dex (including actual Grey Knights...) isn't a necessary step to fix internal balance of GK units.

 

Now, all GK players will *have* to play 'pure' GK lists, regardless of if the units are internally balanced and the Codex actually works or not.

 

Sure, we can all take allies.  Everyone can.  We can play our Grey Knights alongisde Khorne Daemons (just don't deploy within 12"!).  That across the board cop out is no justification though. ;)

[AnImA8]

Basically, that.

Removal of a third of the units from the GK Dex (including actual Grey Knights...) isn't a necessary step to fix internal balance of GK units.

Now, all GK players will *have* to play 'pure' GK lists, regardless of if the units are internally balanced and the Codex actually works or not.

Sure, we can all take allies. Everyone can. We can play our Grey Knights alongisde Khorne Daemons (just don't deploy within 12"!). That across the board cop out is no justification though.

I disagree with this idea. Removing non-Grey Knights units forces the writers to consider whats left in a vacuum. Whereas before Inquisitors and Henchmen were always a method of shoring up melta and plasma, now GW writers will have to figure out how to allow GK's to stand alone without such crutches.

If done properly (and I'm not necessarily saying GW will do it properly), then all considerations should be focused on how to make the units internally cohesive and viable as a stand-alone.

Your assessment that all GK players must play pure GK's is also odd to me. With allies, you can always go more exclusive in-codex because players can ally whatever they want. Non-purists will always be able to ally Inquisitors, Sisters, Guard, or even other Marines.

[Valerian]

But in theory they could have done that without removing all of the inquisitor stuff.

 

Absolutely, they could easily have fixed the internal balance without removing the Inquisitorial units, but that wasn't what I was getting at. I was just responding to the statement from the part that I quoted that said, "there's not too much to be excited over." I think there is much to be excited over, and fixing pure Grey Knights, as well is the lovely new Nemesis Strike Force detachment, are two things that I'm definitely excited about.

 

So those of us who used a mixture of both can't do that anymore, unless we buy another book of course! I always vary my lists so assassins and various war bands are common in my army lists, as well as pure knights on occasion. I appreciate that this does not bother people that this will affect, but there are many players this kind of screws over. All of my inquisition models will be going on the shelf for the time being

Although I emphasize with your position, the writing was on the wall that they'd be stripped out almost a year ago when the published a separate Codex Inquisition.  There is no need to keep them in the Grey Knights codex, when the 7e rules and design allows you to easily take an Inquisitorial Detachment (and likewise an Assassin within the upcoming Datafax).

[SCOTT_FRANCIS]

Well, according to the current codex, we now know why they are never corrupted, they take the necessary steps to remain pure, what ever those steps may be.

Out of place, sorry, missed a page before I commented.

[BladeGaurd]

I am anxious for the new codex, not frighten because it can not be worse then the last one to me. As for those who want to still run a mixed army, you still can with allies it just mean that a mixed army is not a whole lot of GK vehicles with only a hand full of grey knight infantry in a see of henchman.

 

If you are looking for allies I recommend: inquisition, tempestuous, sisters (Chamber Militant army), and imperial knights as they all bring something useful but do not necessarily water down the feel of the army to much or messing with the fluff.

The white dwarf team talked about Astra Militarum as allies for the new detachment and they can also be used to get some tanks.

For those pure Grey Knights, been there done that and if you pull it off right it is really fun.  I highly recommend playing the pure army before taking allies, it is a good way to acclimate and learn what things do.

 

I do wonder if our tech marines can not take servitors with heavy weapons, (mine are scouts with heavy weapons because I hate the servitor model).  That about the only thing I will miss from my urban cammo inquisitor.

 

P.S. knowing my luck we will loose the 2nd auto cannon arm and the twin linked plasma gun lascannon razorback, this is based on my luck with daemon hunters and hordes of chaos where I get something fun and use it a few time and then it disappears from my codex or options that I can take.

[Captain Coolpants]

 

I know how you feel. I've only relatively recently bought 6 auto cannons for 3 of my dreadnoughts, and not long made up some extra custom hammers for my purifiers.

 

But it seems the autocannons will never get used because dreads are more expensive and lose psybolts... and the hammers are now not as auto include for purifiers due to hammers being twice the cost as before...

 

I swear... The emprah hates me.

[SCOTT_FRANCIS]

I feel your pain, I have very recently joined the ranks of the GK, I had a GM Mordrak Conversion and an Inquisitor conversion, both now ruined, cheers GW.

Fortunately I had not purchased the arms for my Contemptor dread, I will now await my new codex, bring on friday.

[thraxdown]

Is it confirmed psybolt is completely gone?

[Adeptus]

I agree that it wasn't necessary to remove Inquisition units from the codex to make Pure knights a viable option.

 

But lets be realistic. If we kept the Inquisition units, then the Knights become just another option in the list. For example, why would the designers balance, say, tactical and assault marines in the SM codex so that I can build a viable army with just those units? The designers would naturally look at the whole range of units available and think "we don't need to provide anti-tank (for the sake of argument) to these two units, players can get it from elsewhere".

 

Likewise, any percieved shortcomings in the GK themselves would have been filled in with other units. Their lack of plasma/melta addressed by Servitors. Their lack of bodies addressed by warrior acolytes. Expensive HQ's addressed by Inquisitors, etc. Now the designers are forced to look at the knights in isolation, and how to make an army of pure knights work. I understand it sucks for people who have made Inquisitor armies and models, but you can still play those through a different codex. I know, I've got a few Henchmen conversions and Inquisitors myself. But those units aren't discontinued, they're just in a different book now.

[thraxdown]

http://imgur.com/vdcauGd.jpg

 

Anyone see this? Nemesis Vanguard. Looks like 15 PA, 5 termies, a dreadknight, and a land raider. At least we're getting something.... I'd pick one up but I have a full army as it is

[boreas]

Well, it's pretty obvious the update won't be world-changing for veteran GK players (unlike the previous codex). I'm slightly disappointed. I might see the lack of new models as a money-saving silver lining, but since I now have to buy the Inquisition and Assassins codex, even that is a bit bitter.

 

Or if the GK rules turn out lackluster, I could go on building my Tau... Time will tell

[Kenderleech]

Certain builds of henchmen and inquisitors are gone however.   I spent close to a hundred dollars building warbands with axes and mauls, giving inquisitors not-swords and so forth.   All of those models become obsolete if GW keeps the current wording in codex inquisition.. which drops my inquisition force from 3000 points, to about 1800.

 

 

Of course, i still have about 24,000 points of actual grey knights to fall back on.   Oh, wait, losing the assassins.   20000 points.

[Gentlemanloser]

I agree that it wasn't necessary to remove Inquisition units from the codex to make Pure knights a viable option.

But lets be realistic. If we kept the Inquisition units, then the Knights become just another option in the list. For example, why would the designers balance, say, tactical and assault marines in the SM codex so that I can build a viable army with just those units? The designers would naturally look at the whole range of units available and think "we don't need to provide anti-tank (for the sake of argument) to these two units, players can get it from elsewhere".

Likewise, any percieved shortcomings in the GK themselves would have been filled in with other units. Their lack of plasma/melta addressed by Servitors. Their lack of bodies addressed by warrior acolytes. Expensive HQ's addressed by Inquisitors, etc. Now the designers are forced to look at the knights in isolation, and how to make an army of pure knights work. I understand it sucks for people who have made Inquisitor armies and models, but you can still play those through a different codex. I know, I've got a few Henchmen conversions and Inquisitors myself. But those units aren't discontinued, they're just in a different book now.

But this is *exactly* what will happen.

Knights are just another option, and if you want long range anti tank, you go to another Codex to get it.

The designers aren't forced, or even encouraged, to look at the Knights in isolation. And they will not balance around that.

It just won't happen.

I guess we'll all find out in a week or so though.

Edit;

As for no new units. You know why I want them? Spice. I've been playing the Grey Knights the same way, with the same units, in the same fashion for over 4 years.

Some new GK options would be a *welcome* breath of fresh air.

[Adeptus]

But this is *exactly* what will happen.

Knights are just another option, and if you want long range anti tank, you go to another Codex to get it.

The designers aren't forced, or even encouraged, to look at the Knights in isolation. And they will not balance around that.

It just won't happen.

I disagree. All the codexes so far are capable of standing on their own two feet, and none of them depend on other codexes to fill gaping holes in their own capabilities. I would not expect this to change for the Grey Knights. Certainly some codexes are stronger in some areas than others, but none of them are crippled without allies, which is what would happen to a pure GK army if the Inquisition units were left in the codex.

I guess we'll all find out in a week or so though.

I guess so

As for no new units. You know why I want them? Spice. I've been playing the Grey Knights the same way, with the same units, in the same fashion for over 4 years.

Some new GK options would be a *welcome* breath of fresh air.

I'm smelling what you're selling, but GW has a nasty habit of coming up with dud units, and shoe-horning them into the fluff, often with dud models. I don't think constantly releasing more and more units for every army is sustainable, and we certainly don't need any resculpts (like the poor old Chaos Space Marines did, and subsequently didn't get). I'll be more than happy with the same old units, so long as they WORK!

[IndigoJack]

Just read the batrep in the new WD. Fairly certain we still have psychic vehicles. In turn 1, the batrep mentions the GK player having 16 WCs. Without vehicles, his list only has 9 WCs (this is assuming that some units didn't become WC2 some how). With vehicles, he has 12. Other than that, I couldn't really glean any more info from it.

 

As far as the removal of the inquisition goes, I'm disappointed. An inquisitor has led my GK force since 3rd edition. Until two months ago, I didn't even own a GK HQ. I get that some people want to field a pure GK force, but it's not like that option never existed. The loss of 'native' inquisitorial units means a loss of options. I had high hopes that a new codex would be a return to the daemonhunter roots. Perhaps a Codex: Ordo Malleus (since GW has been about the unique names for codexes of late). Oh well, perhaps someday GW will start doing cross faction formations and an inquisitor will once again lead my GK. Or maybe if a new inquisition book is in the works, ordo malleus inquisitors will have the option of being taken instead of GK HQs. Overall, I'm still excited for the book, and have high hopes that some of the formations in there will kick some serious butt.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Eh, Grandmasters are very relevant these days though. A combat HQ who can also do psychic support is unusual, Chaos Sorcerors are the only other commonly seen version of that. And Librarians getting a price downgrade could be handy, especially for a cheap Mastery 3 with a hood to stop enemy hexes and mind bullets. 

 

Inquisition getting taken out was a forgone conclusion, as others have said. I'm not fussed, I can still take Coteaz+friends. 

[Quozzo]

I agree that it wasn't necessary to remove Inquisition units from the codex to make Pure knights a viable option.

 

But lets be realistic. If we kept the Inquisition units, then the Knights become just another option in the list. For example, why would the designers balance, say, tactical and assault marines in the SM codex so that I can build a viable army with just those units? The designers would naturally look at the whole range of units available and think "we don't need to provide anti-tank (for the sake of argument) to these two units, players can get it from elsewhere".

 

Likewise, any percieved shortcomings in the GK themselves would have been filled in with other units. Their lack of plasma/melta addressed by Servitors. Their lack of bodies addressed by warrior acolytes. Expensive HQ's addressed by Inquisitors, etc. Now the designers are forced to look at the knights in isolation, and how to make an army of pure knights work. I understand it sucks for people who have made Inquisitor armies and models, but you can still play those through a different codex. I know, I've got a few Henchmen conversions and Inquisitors myself. But those units aren't discontinued, they're just in a different book now.

They are not forced to balance knights in isolation. Have you seen LotD, you instant lose if you don't use allies.

[Dread]

tick tock tick tock***for when it chimes the GK will be glorious! I'm really at a stage that I just want to use my GK and none of my other armies right now.  I hope that the new $50 will be spent well.

[incinerator950]

But this is *exactly* what will happen.

Knights are just another option, and if you want long range anti tank, you go to another Codex to get it.

The designers aren't forced, or even encouraged, to look at the Knights in isolation. And they will not balance around that.

It just won't happen.

I disagree. All the codexes so far are capable of standing on their own two feet, and none of them depend on other codexes to fill gaping holes in their own capabilities. I would not expect this to change for the Grey Knights. Certainly some codexes are stronger in some areas than others, but none of them are crippled without allies, which is what would happen to a pure GK army if the Inquisition units were left in the codex.

I guess we'll all find out in a week or so though.

I guess so

As for no new units. You know why I want them? Spice. I've been playing the Grey Knights the same way, with the same units, in the same fashion for over 4 years.

Some new GK options would be a *welcome* breath of fresh air.

I'm smelling what you're selling, but GW has a nasty habit of coming up with dud units, and shoe-horning them into the fluff, often with dud models. I don't think constantly releasing more and more units for every army is sustainable, and we certainly don't need any resculpts (like the poor old Chaos Space Marines did, and subsequently didn't get). I'll be more than happy with the same old units, so long as they WORK!

Just because they can stan on their feet doesn't mean it's easy for them.

[Gentlemanloser]

Eh, Grandmasters are very relevant these days though.

 

We're losing TGS. That removes some gameplay and potency right there.

 

Edit:

 

I can see us *not* taking BCs (or the GM upgrade on a BC) and just taking Libbies for HQ now.

[Brovius]

 

They are not forced to balance knights in isolation. Have you seen LotD, you instant lose if you don't use allies.

 

Interesting choice of word there, you might like the look of the new Psylencer ;)

[Adeptus]

They are not forced to balance knights in isolation. Have you seen LotD, you instant lose if you don't use allies.

Interesting choice of word there, you might like the look of the new Psylencer

Are you saying what I think you're saying?