[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[Slips]

Honestly, I'm starting to take a Liking to them, especially Phalanx Warders as a counter-assault unit since they gain +1 Initiative when they get Charged...Though since they can only take Power Axes as melee and the only truly attractive choice for the Sergeant is an Axe or a Fist (unless strapped for points), the unwieldy rule flubs things up. That is, unless the +1 Init is applied AFTER the unwieldy rule, thus letting them hit at Initiative 2 and thus give them an edge over similarly geared units, though I doubt it.

 

On paper, a T5, BS5 (with a Bolter), I5(for warders) Tac Marines that, as stated above, have an Invuln and Re-roll failed armor against Blasts + Apoth for FNP, I can see why they made them as expensive as they are, though thats only truly justified in our case, not so much that of the other Legions.

 

That said, their true domain is Zone Mortalis. (imo)

[Phalanx Warder]

I will let you know how effective the GoS RoW is because I have a ZM game today 1000pts I will run X2 10 breachers with Alexis Polox and a contemptor tooled for CC. Still need to fill out the list but I will let you know how I fare!

[Moonstalker]

How expensive they are is not in dispute brother, I am making the argument that with our RoW Breachers are an attractive choice. 20 toughness 5 marines with an invulnerable save, re-roll armor saves against blast weaponry scares me more than a tactical squad, add in an apothecary and its plain nasty

 

The toughness is a good bonus, but the armor reroll vs blast on Breachers is, eh... you're gonna be lucky to ever use it.  You're going to get to use that against frag missiles, standard WW shots, tempest bolt shells, havoc launcher, and quad mortars.  Maybe one or two other things, those are just what I can think of off the top of my head.  However, the frag missile and tempest bolt shells just aren't going to get used against you, especially not when the krak missile will get a 2+ to wound and pen your armor, and it's likely that your opponent will use scorpius bolt rounds instead if given the option.  Quad mortars and standard WW's just aren't common, and havoc launchers don't really seem to be all that common either.  The blast weapons you see most often?  Medusas, WW Scorpii, Vindicators, Typhons, Executioners.  All will deny your armor (and thus your reroll) and most will still ID T5 (or at least keep their 2+ to wound).  It sounds good in theory, but when you think about the weapons you will most likely face?  You'll never get to use it.

[Frostmourne]

So I am thinking of putting together a Sigismund themed army. I have a long arse local tournament to get next year, and its narrative based, so takes about 6 months to complete.

I am thinking of a CC fuelled Sigismund army. I want to be able to win, but i dont want to get Bored. I will playing alot of 40k Chaos, and Xenos and Guard i expect. Reckon i have a shot at making a decent 2k list?

[Dono1979]

Unless you are playing against pretty hard lists, a 2K list containing Sigismund against regular 40K armies could be pretty brutal (and not in a nice way). He is probably one of the best statted CC characters in the game outside of the Primarchs.

 

Coupled with that is the fact that most Sigi lists will rely on effective combat delivery of CC squads, so will sometimes contain multiple Spartans and other Asault vehicles, probably not a list structure which will make many friends. However if the tournament style is go hard then it might fit in.

 

 

On the positive side of things, at 2K you should be able to make a reasonably good Sigi list with some Templars and supporting armour.

[Frostmourne]

Well i wouldnt want to get stuff thrown at me. I would like to keep it fun and balanced.

I dont want a total beat train, i probably would have some Heavy Support Squads or something, just to be fluffy. But yeah Sigismund, in a LR, with some Templar, then smaller Templar in a Rhino for hunter/gathering and some Armour to help with some Heavy.

Im not opposed ot allying with Mechanicum too.,

[Dono1979]

Whack something over in the lists section and I am sure there will be a few people who will be happy to help you nut something out. Slipstream is pretty good at breaking down and rebuilsing Imperial Fists lists without turning them into curb stompers.

[Slips]

DID I HEAR A LIST WITH SIGISMUND IN IT!?!?!

BOY HAVE I GOT NEWS FOR YOU!

 

Before I start, know that I have a 4k List for a HH Campaign and its built around being as tough and fluff as possible. It has 25 Terminators, 2 Primus Medicae (one terminator one for Templars)

 

For Sigismund, 8 Templar Body Guards and a Primus Medicae (Templar Champion and PM with Solarite Power Gauntlet) will net you a 10 man unit that can Will shred anything it meets. Even 2+ saves and Armor (since sol gloves are technically S8 Ap1). That said, Running a squad like this will cost nearly a thousand points. 230 for Siggy, ~100 for PM, 270 For a Phobos with Armored Ceramite and 8 Templar. Not. Cheap.

 

That said, with Siggy in, you can move the Templar Squad into Troops or Elites if needed. Also, Taking Sigismund opens up Rites of War so if you wanted to Run a Pride of the Legion list...

 

That said at 2k points I wouldn't take a RoW.

 

Units to strongly consider for this list after filling Minimum Troops Requirements (which your Templar squad can be one of, if you don't take a RoW like Pride or Stone Gauntlet) :

 

Tactical Veteran Squad(s). 10 men, 2 Heavy Bolters on Suspensor Web (becomes Assault 3 if you halve the range) and take the Sniper Special Rule if Troop Heavy or Tank Hunter. Outflank also really good but it doesn't feel Imperial Fists. They'll also have BS 6 for Firing Bolters (since they're BS5, right?) Add on a Master of Signal for BS7 Lulz.

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnoughts. Unless you know you wont be facing Air, take one. At most Two. To keep them cheap and all-rounders, use TL Autocannons. Air and Infantry Shredder take Kheres. General Middle Finger to anything with an AV, Lascannons.

 

Legion Seeker Squads. 10 Men, All with Combi-Weapons (plasma preferably) and a Transport. If you can spare it, Land Raider Proteus, though a rhino is just as good, imo. With them, you'll be able to fire Special Issue Ammunition at BS6 'cuz our Legion Rules say +1BS for Firing a Bolter with no specification made for SIA. Also add a MoS for BS7. Watch any Horde Army player Cry as you Rapid Fire Tempest Bolts (9" range to do that though) at BS6 and Place 20 3" Blast Markers. Sure, they're S3 AP5 but, they'll make any Green Tide or 'Nid Gribblies Player want to rage quit.

 

Legion Skyhunter Jetbike Squadrons. Want a TEQ unit that has double/triple the mobility? Look no further. Taking a Squad of 10 (9 if you want to min/max it) will net you 3 Special heavy weapons per squad. They are: Multi-Melta, Plasma Cannon and Volkite Culverin. VERY expensive squad (in both terms) but can be tailored to fill a gap. Need Ap2? 3 Plasma Cannons. Anti-Armor? Multi-Melta. Anti-Infantry? Volkite. Take 1 of each for your 3 weapons to be an "all-rounder" squad. Insert Primus Medicae on Jetbike for a squad with 2+ Save, T5 and FNP 5+. Give this same Primus Medicae a Refractor Field for a 5++ Invulnerable and he's basically a Terminator with 3x the Speed. Also give him a Solarite Power Gauntlet for Added lulz.

 

Legion Rapier Batteries. Essentially Poor Mans solution to Armor or Hordes. If you face a Spartan, Graviton Cannons are you're best option due to Haywire. They also cause Dangerous and Difficult Terrain within the Blast Marker that persists till your next turn. You can take 3 Per slot. 3 3" markers = 9" Long or Wide line of "slow the F down". Thudd Guns are Decent too. Lasdestroyers if you need to have a stop-gap anti-air solution since its the only one that can shoot at flyers.

 

Predator Squadrons. The Predator Executioner has the ONLY Ap2 Plasma Weapon that doesn't have Gets Hot that isn't on a Titan. You can take up to 3 per Slot.

 

At 2k Points, I cannot Recommend a Land Raider Spartan. It just takes up too much points. Though if you want to make anyone cry, take one, give it Armored Ceramite (HAH MELTAS) and Flare Shields (-2S to Blast and Templates or -1S to anything else when shot at its front arc). At AV14 all round, 5 HP and 4TL Lascannon Shot AND 25 Capacity, you won't be making friends fast with these. But you're more likely to have Sigismund Survive to reach his target.

 

Fire Raptor. It can shoot at 4 different targets a turn and reliably shoot other flyers out of the sky if needed. 'Nuff Said.

 

If you wanted to make an Air Force List, you can take the Angels Wrath RoW and Stuff everything you can into a Storm Eagle (or a droppod but I like the Eagles more), take Jetbikes and Fire Raptors. Watch as your opponent surrender when you take out their 1-2 only anti-air solutions since you brought in 3+ flyers. Storm Eagles are also Assault Vehicles. Give them Armored Ceramite too since you're likely to put them into Hove Mode to embark/disembark.

 

Edit: Almost forgot. Heavy Support Squads. 10 men. Volkite Culverins. Thats 40! Shots with Deflagrate. A potential of 80 wounds right there. Since you're facing 40k armies....Don't miss an opportunity like this! Though you may need to bring official FW/GW proof that, yes, this is what this gun and this rule do.

 

These are the best ones I can think of off the top of my head. Feel free to ask me about any units covered or not by this post

 

Edit2: I didn't mention Terminators due to their cost. At 2k points, I don't think I can justify them due to the Siggy block already taking up a HUGE allotment of your points limit.

 

However, if you ABSOLUTELY want them in, Give every squad that can take 'em Nuncio-Voxii. Take Teleportation Transponders. Make it a 10 man squad and kit 5 out with Vigil Pattern Storm Shields. Two Heavy Flamers or Reaper Auto-Cannons. If you want them to take on other 2+ saves, Plasma Blasters. Beyond that, gear them up how you feel, really. Our terminators have the advantage of being Assault Terminators and Tactical Terminators rolled into one entry with more options. Though Lightning Claws, Chain Fists, Power Axes/Swords (maybe a maul or two for the odd T3 Multi-Wound Character), essentially all their options are good choices. They can also take Combi-Weapons. Meaning you can give them Meltas, Flamers or Plasmas if you need to. Or more Volkites. These can be really as specialized or generalized as you wanted.

 

Reason for Nuncio-vox is for a 6" no-scatter bubble. So you can drop these guys into the thick of things (Templar can take one and you know where they're going.) Terminators suddenly popping up can be a real kick in the nuts.
 

If you want to keep costs down, take Cataphractii Armor since it reduces the cost of Vigil Pattern Storm Shields. Though they consequently become slower but tougher (4+ invuln instead of 5+).

Edited November 11, 2014 by Slipstreams

[Slips]

Oh, and BTW, NO TEMPLAR IN A NON-ASSAULT VEHICLE. They NEED to be able to charge into combat. Its what they're made for. If you hamper that in any way, you're better off not taking them.

[Frostmourne]

Hehe wow, that is indeed a very Helpful break down of Tactics :D I am loving that, and very enthused to crack on and Build a list.

So at some point tonight i will post a list up :D

One question though, are there any legion Specific Termies Due for IF anytime soon? As 2 Wound Termies makes me moist.

And is almost enough for me to go and play Salamanders :P

[Slips]

There aren't. Though all of ours can take Vigil Pattern Storm Shields which are objectively better since they give a Flat 3++ and not a 5++ that improves invulnerable's by +1 otherwise like the Salamanders one.

 

Ours, however, is Terminator only / Alexis Polux.

[depthcharge12]

Remember that with Jetbikes....Imperial Fists get +1 BS on Heavy Bolters ;)

[SevenPlagues]

So what is the community's view on a big, burly 20-man Siege Breaker squad, with attached Apothecary? Too many points invested in a single unit?

They'd get 6++, or cover saves, and if they're bunched up they'd get their FNP against almost anything as they've got T5. That said, they'd then be forced to take an awful lot of saves/FNPs vs high strength large templates, I assume. I'll be playing against a Fellblade, and may perhaps provide it other targets to shoot at, aside from my contemplated big Troops squads of IF 'defense' marines.

Does anyone run big units of these chums? If so, what upgrades? I'd considered Artificer for the Apothecary, and figured no special weapons since I should be taking advantage of big torrents of bolter fire with the enhanced BS. I figure they can make resilient (almost like Dwarfs, from Fantasy) blocks of unmovable troops. Although I'm sure I might be mistaken! What is the collective wisdom on such a unit?

[AfroCampbell]

20 breachers or 15 Phalanx Warders are both similar type units but with different functions that are interchangable. both are viable but massive point sinks. 20 Breachers with RoW can survive a beatstick from a lot, however doesnt dish poop except can shoot grav. however Phalanx Warders may take less damage (less bodies probably 15-17 compared to 20 for similar price), but can include 3-4 power axes at 15-17 size squad for a similar cost and clear off troops much faster.

in summary.

Breachers = defensive with more bodies more shooty orientated          /            Phalanx Warders = aggressive with less bodies and more cc orientated.

 

overall the use of these is expensive, so probs want to weigh up how they are used. I think aggressive objective holders is best, clear an objective and sit on it weathering any incoming attacks.

[depthcharge12]

Anybody try IF vets with heavy bolters and sniper?

 

At 12" that's 16 rending BS5 bolter shots and 6 rending BS5 heavy bolter shots.

 

Run those guys in a rhino up the field and have them camp an objective and ruin anyone's day :devil:

[Slips]

Thats what I'm doing with mine. However, our Heresy Group here hasn't really had the chance to play yet due to schedules and stuff

 

For Phalanx Warders, I'd use them as Aggressive Counter-Assault Units. They still suffer from Void-Hardened armor conferring a -1 to Charge Distance but gain +1 initiative when Charged. Theres also a Debate on if they can use defensive grenades (throwing them that is) so units charging them lose the +1 A they receive. At least they get to re-roll failed Armor Saves vs Blasts and Templates.

 

For Squad Sizes, I'd keep the Axe Ratio to: 3 or 5 / 10, 5 / 15 and 7 / 20. I'd also consider 1/2 Thunderhammers (mostly for the Rule of Cool) if you know you'll be up against Multi-Wound CC Beasts or MCs and the like.

 

Melta Guns are debatable due to Armored Ceramite. Flamers are a decent option especially if used in their intended role. D3 Guaranteed hit per flamer is a nice deterrent.

 

That said, they still only become a more enticing choice compared to Terminators and Templars in ZM or Stone Gauntlet RoW List; within which we can take Warders as the Compulsory Troops due to a FW Email response we've gotten shared with us. If they aren't used in ZM ALWAYS give them an Assault Vehicle : Land Raider Phobos or Caestus Assault Ram for 10 men and Spartan or Storm Eagle for 11-20. They are too expensive to footslog.

 

Edit: Breacher Squads I have a REALLY hard time getting behind. They don't offer anything I'm looking for in a Squad....

Edited January 16, 2015 by Slipstreams

[SevenPlagues]

The problems with the Breachers being that you're paying such a premium for models that otherwise are basically just Tactical Marines? To be able to avail yourself of the IF T5 and 5+ FNP, you have to be extraordinarily clumped up, making you a tempting target for blasts. You don't get to re-roll cover saves taken vs Blasts/Templates, right? Just armour? I guess they don't measure up to the extra points it costs over taking a Tactical Squad instead.

[Hesh Kadesh]

While Ordnance is pretty terrible, Machine Spirit allows the another weapon to fire at full Ballistic Skill, so isn't as debilitating as it first seems. But it's still not ideal, and if you're tank hunting, there are much better options - even the Cerberus does a slightly better job at Tank Hunting.

 

Ordnance weapons are a lot more powerful in 30K due to the abundance of Armoured Ceramite, AV14, and Flare Shields.

[Dono1979]

 

The problems with the Breachers being that you're paying such a premium for models that otherwise are basically just Tactical Marines? To be able to avail yourself of the IF T5 and 5+ FNP, you have to be extraordinarily clumped up, making you a tempting target for blasts. You don't get to re-roll cover saves taken vs Blasts/Templates, right? Just armour? I guess they don't measure up to the extra points it costs over taking a Tactical Squad instead.

 

Something often overlooked is the ability to take special weapons which the Tactical squads do not have. This gives the squad some versatility in being able to do something above and beyond the Tactical squad. Does it make up for the points difference? Probably not. But each to their own

[ThatOneMarshal]

Hey imperial fisters I've been thinking about going fists for my army. I've heard their legion rules are powerful. Are they eldar overpowered? I hope not because that's no fun. I've read a bit of the crimson fist and Pollux is awesome and his model is really cool as well. What are his rules like? Is he worth it? How would use him? How would your run a templar themed force? If you had to run breachers of any kind how would you run them? They looks really cool and I've been thinking of getting them. And how do you guys feel about dorn?

 

Happy crusading

[Slips]

Our rules are some of the best because instead of getting 40k IF's Psuedo Twin-Link, we get Straight up +1BS when firing Bolters (which includes special issue ammo fired from bolters) and our Heavy Supports still get Tank Hunters. We also gain Stubborn in cover and in a challenge, our characters get to re-roll to-hit. So that means we have 20 man tac blobs firing at BS5 and any squad already at BS5 Firing Bolters get boosted to BS6, etc.

 

Our wargear is also top notch, our storm shields giving a Flat 3++ opposed to the sallies +1 invuln. The Solarite Power Gauntlet is an Ap1 Master-Crafted Power Fist without specialist weapon (meaning you get +1A from having a pistol) and the Illastus Pattern Assault Cannon is the 40k AC with a very slight drawback. We're also the only other legion (other is NL) that can buy Teleportation Transponders for out Terminators to permit Deep Striking with them.

 

Alexis Polux is the more flexible of our HQs and is pretty deadly in his own right being able to swing his Power Fist at initiative by sacrificing some attacks (and with S5 its a S10 hit). Sadly, his Deepstrike rule doesnt circumvent the RoW Restrictions but if taken with another RoW is pretty good. He also has a bunch of decent buffs.

 

Sigismund in the Killer of all things not a Primarch in a Challenge. Being pretty much the only non-Primarch Character with Eternal Warrior, re-rolling to-hit and to-wound in challenges with an S+2 Ap2 Power Sword, forcing a re-roll of successful enemy invulnerables in challenge and granting +1 Initiative when he charges, not a lot of things will survive encountering him.

 

A Templar Themed force means you will have a very specialized CC Block and not much room for Tac Blobs for shooting. A Templar List, obviously, works the best with Sigismund at the head. The force will also usually be 8-9 Templar in a Land Raider + Sigismund (8 if you take a Primus Medicae for FNP, which you should) as the main block.

 

I'd go for:

 +++ These suggestions are what I feel would work best together +++

HQ:

Sigismund

Primus Medicae: AA, Boarding Shield, Solarite Power Gauntlet

Primus Medicae: Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Solarite Power Gauntlet 

The gloves are there for that S8 Ap1 Hit on vehicles, mostly and for having +1A for not having specialist weapon and Master-Crafted base.

 

Troops: Sigismund Makes them Troops. However, compulsories may change depending on RoW Taken.

Templar Squad: 8 Men, Champion with Sol Glove, combat shields to taste, Squad Melta Bombs. Attach Siggy and Primus 1 Here

Land Raider Phobos: Armored Ceramite (AT MINIMUM)

Templar Squad:10 Men, Champion with Sol Glove, combat shields to taste, Squad melta bombs.

Land Raider Phobos: Armored Ceramite

OR IN PLACE OF SQUAD #2

Terminator Squad: 5-10 Men 4-8 Storm Shields (Special Weapons cannot take one), 2x Heavy Flamer / Plasma Blaster / Assault Cannon, Power Weapons to taste. Attach Primus #2 

Spartan Assault Tank: Armored Ceramite.

Taken an Elites Slot if not taken with Pride of the Legion. In the event that you decide to Teleport them in, give squads that can take them Nuncio-Voxes for the no-scatter bubble.

 

IF YOU TAKE PRIDE OF THE LEGION (RoW), TAKE A TAC VET SQUAD WITH SUSPENSOR HB, MB AND NORMAL SARGE GEAR TO FULFILL COMPULSORY TROOPS

 

Elites:

Above terminator squad if not taken with Pride.

Contemptor-Mortis' aren't as competitive anymore due to the Deredeo Dreadnought. If you take them, take em in Talons and Gear them for Mid-Close range. Give the hands Plasma Blasters or Graviton Guns to deal with threats. Flamers if you're up against hordes. Best gun option remains the Kheres but the Culverin is a Solid Choice and has double the range.

EDIT:

Destroyer Squads: 10 Men. JP or LR Proteus, 2 Rad Missile Launchers, Squad Melta Bombs and Typical Sarge Gear.

Use them to soften up hard multi-wound targets with Rad Missile causing -1T to those hit by the blast. 

 

From this point on, every entry is optional and can be taken in a mix n' match fashion to build the force. Depending on points limit, all of these could be taken.

 

Fast Attack:

Jetbike Squadron: 6-9 (10) bikes, 2-3 Volkite Culverins, Squad Melta Bombs, Power Weapons if needed, Sarge Optional.

Legion Seeker Squad: 5+ marines, 5+ Combi-Weapons (flamer or Plasma), Squad Melta Bombs

Rhino or Land Raider Proteus (if possible)

 

Heavy Support:

Deredeo Dreadnought: Two ways of taking this.

#1: Autocannon Battery, Aiolos Missile Launcher, Armored Ceramite. Backfield Anti-Armor and Anti-Air. Solid Choice. You could fill all 3 HS slots with these bad boys and still dish out some pain.

#2: Hellfire Plasma Carronade, Antomantic Pavise, Armored Ceramite. Close support unit due to the Pavise granting +1 Invulnerable saves within 3" of the hull and having 4 shot plasma weapon without Gets Hot! or can be fired in a single 5" Blast with Gets Hot! Pricier unit, more suited to ZM games.

Land Raider Achilles-Alpha. No wargear options. The non-alpha version is decent as well but is equipped with Multi-Meltas instead of Volkite Culverins.

Fire Raptor Gunship. All around solid Choice.

Predator Squadron: guns to taste. Not for my tastes, personally.

 

Breachers are really a meh unit due to their restrictive cost. Phalanx Warders even more so but are a bit more flexible though they have a clear predisposition to CC than standard Beachers. If you build lists around them, expect relatively low body count and firepower and to play primarily defensively.

 

Dorn is a Great Army Buffer. D3 to combat resolutions, army-wide Ld10 and a bunch of other stuff. Can also take a Thunderhawk with Void Shield, 4++ against missiles and a Turbo laser for ~200 points cheaper than normal (600 points) but only in 3k+ games; its also a Dedicated Transport and doesnt take up a LoW slot.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Slipstreams

[AfroCampbell]

Slips i see you have completely changed your mind about breachers and phalanx warders? 

[Lysere]

Didn't think Sigismund could re-roll to wound in challenges, not that he'd even need it.

 

I've been playing my 40k Templars as 30k Fists for several weeks now for a change of pace, and it's really been a lot of fun. One thing I'd like to say is with my experience with Breacher squads is that they are alright as they are normally, but with the stone gauntlet they can become a real pain to remove, especially when you add in an apothecary. I had one squad take enough pulse and fusion fire to rip a tac squad in half, and lost one guy. The bonus toughness makes a world of difference, and the flexibility they get in weapon options makes them worth the extra cost. That's the other big thing, Tac squads may be much cheaper than Breacher and Assault squads, but they have no flexibility at all.

 

Also a note on Phalanx Warders, from what I read of their fluff the idea isn't that they use their shields to really buff their own effectiveness. Rather they make a shied wall to aid characters/commanders. So while the Initiative bump is wasted on axes that's not really the point as far as I can tell. Of course if they made it work with axes and Thunder hammers I wouldn't complain.

 

Also Stone Gauntlet plus Storm shield termies is hilarious fun, good luck removing them anytime soon. Really makes mass cheap fire a lot less dangerous than it is now.

[Slips]

Slips i see you have completely changed your mind about breachers and phalanx warders? 

With them now being able to shoot out defensive grenades (ie actually being equipped with them instead of the "Counts as [...]") makes them slightly more swallowable as a unit; though they still cost too much.

 

The thing is that they're a playstyle unit. You base a list around breachers, it will be defensive play. Trying to be aggressive and assault heavy with them will not work out well and they arent the generalists the Tac Blobs are.

 

Phalanx Warders I just like because they're Breachers+ So you can go on the offensive with them; not that its recommended but, its easier to do so with their wargear options. That said, you're still going to be playing defensively with them.

 

Its the same as my stance on Jetbikes and Destroyers. To be used effectively, they have to be part of the playstyle of the list because of how much of a specialist unit they are. They're not like a Deredeo or Sicarian that you can stick into almost any list and have perform pretty well.

 

Couple all that with our RoW and Breachers / Warders actually become pretty good; you just lose out on some stuff since your limited by how many troops choices you take.

 

As Lysere said in his post, the Special Weapons options for both squads is a big Plus over Tac Squads.

[Lysere]

Anybody try IF vets with heavy bolters and sniper?

 

At 12" that's 16 rending BS5 bolter shots and 6 rending BS5 heavy bolter shots.

 

Run those guys in a rhino up the field and have them camp an objective and ruin anyone's day

 

I actually ran this set up in a 2v2 a while back against wolves and necrons. The random AP 2 really came in handy, and combined with the fact that the HB are assault weapons with vets leaves you room to fire a bit and then storm in.

 

If you really want a lot of Dakka take a look at stronghold assault. You can give a bastion an upgrade so the unit inside re-rolls to hit rolls of one, and combined with a heavy weapons team with heavy bolters you can do some serious damage.

 

The stars of my list were a pair of 16 man breacher squads again with Apotehcary and the Stone Gauntlet. Man they just would not die. I think I lost like 7 marines all told by the end. It helps that after the Apothecary got stuck in a challenge with a Thunderwolf Sergeant he decided to channel the might of Sigismund and finish off the wounded Sergeant.

 

Also re-rolling armor saves against blasts and templates actually came in handy that game.