[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[Dono1979]

 

Bolters of Glory - I totally, embarrassingly forgot that you can't shoot next turn if you use Fury. This was a badness. However, +1 BS to Overwatch when you're being charged by Gal Vorbak is a thrice-damned lifesaver.

 

 

 

Sorry but where are you getting +1 BS to Overwatch from which is specific to Imperial Fists? 

While they get +1 BS to Bolters, this doesnt over ride the BS1 for Overwatch (unless I am missing something from a FAQ), in a similar way that Initiative bonuses dont improve Unwieldy weapons striking at Ini 1.

[Lysere]

 

 

Bolters of Glory - I totally, embarrassingly forgot that you can't shoot next turn if you use Fury. This was a badness. However, +1 BS to Overwatch when you're being charged by Gal Vorbak is a thrice-damned lifesaver.

 

 

 

Sorry but where are you getting +1 BS to Overwatch from which is specific to Imperial Fists? 

While they get +1 BS to Bolters, this doesnt over ride the BS1 for Overwatch (unless I am missing something from a FAQ), in a similar way that Initiative bonuses dont improve Unwieldy weapons striking at Ini 1.

 

 

Would be interesting if they could, and people say Warders should get their I bonus with the axes because that would justify their cost a bit more. But yes RAW overwatch is at the same BS as always because it is a set modifier.

[Dono1979]

 

 

Would be interesting if they could, and people say Warders should get their I bonus with the axes because that would justify their cost a bit more. But yes RAW overwatch is at the same BS as always because it is a set modifier.

 

 

True but once you start using Warders in Zone Mortalis (a setting which is strongly encouraged for 30K) you quickly see their value in that the Initiative bonus assists their Reaction Fire which is a huge thing. 

[Lysere]

 

 

 

Would be interesting if they could, and people say Warders should get their I bonus with the axes because that would justify their cost a bit more. But yes RAW overwatch is at the same BS as always because it is a set modifier.

 

 

True but once you start using Warders in Zone Mortalis (a setting which is strongly encouraged for 30K) you quickly see their value in that the Initiative bonus assists their Reaction Fire which is a huge thing. 

 

 

I never thought of that, that actually gives me more reasons to run them in the future. My problem is points that I could spend on them end up spent on Templar Brethren for obvious reasons.

[StruManChu]

Stru, happy and all for your win but, all 30k thudd guns have shatter shells

I really need to buy the red books...

Bolters of Glory - I totally, embarrassingly forgot that you can't shoot next turn if you use Fury. This was a badness. However, +1 BS to Overwatch when you're being charged by Gal Vorbak is a thrice-damned lifesaver.

Sorry but where are you getting +1 BS to Overwatch from which is specific to Imperial Fists?

While they get +1 BS to Bolters, this doesnt over ride the BS1 for Overwatch (unless I am missing something from a FAQ), in a similar way that Initiative bonuses dont improve Unwieldy weapons striking at Ini 1.

The way this was explained to me during the game (as I am far from savvy with the 7th Ed rules yet - as I said, first game in literally years), the base rule from the rulebook is that shooting in Overwatch happens at BS1. What I was told was as this is the base rule in the rule book, any subsequent rules in later publications provide the circumstances by which the base rule can be changed.

As I understand it, any models with Legiones Astartes: Imperial Fists get +1 BS for any shots fired with Bolt weapons as part of the Disciplined Fire rule. As written, there's no restriction on when this happens, i.e. it's not limited to the Shooting Phase, plus it makes a level of sense that the Fists' discipline would carry over to facing a charge. My opponent basically said that if FW had meant to limit this, they would have specifically said 'in the shooting phase' in the rule text. Thus, as Overwatch shots fired from my squads were from Bolters, any LA:IF model with a bolt weapon got +1 to their BS.

If this isn't correct, then I won't play it again, but it does make logical sense to me.

[xera32]

You can never modify the BS of snapshots unless the rule calls out snapshot specifically

Snap Shots, P32
The Ballistic Skill of a model firing a Snap Shot can only be modified by
special rules that specifically state that they affect Snap Shots, along with any
other restrictions (some may only modify Ballistic Skill when firing
Overwatch Snap Shots, for example). If a special rule doesn't specifically state

that it affects Snap Shots, then the Snap Shot is resolved at Ballistic Skill 1.

 

As the imperial fist +1 BS doesn't call out snapshots, it doesn't change overwatch. It can also be argued that the way modifiers are applied, we do multiplication/division first, then +/- and then set the value (P8, Multiple Modifiers). Following these rules we first add the 1BS from the LA:IF rule, then set BS to 1.

[StruManChu]

Got it. I'll feed that back to the group. Thanks xera32!

[Son of Carnelian]

I see good strategy and good teamwork here in this thread. Makes me proud to have just invested in some Fists as my first legion. Proceed, brothers. 

[Charlo]

Aye, thanks for the feedback and battle report. While I'm far from decided on which Legion I'll eventually do, everything helps!

[Terminus]

Unless you are playing against pretty hard lists, a 2K list containing Sigismund against regular 40K armies could be pretty brutal (and not in a nice way). He is probably one of the best statted CC characters in the game outside of the Primarchs.

 

Coupled with that is the fact that most Sigi lists will rely on effective combat delivery of CC squads, so will sometimes contain multiple Spartans and other Asault vehicles, probably not a list structure which will make many friends. However if the tournament style is go hard then it might fit in.

 

 

On the positive side of things, at 2K you should be able to make a reasonably good Sigi list with some Templars and supporting armour.

I know this is an old post, but I honestly don't think 40K struggles with anything 30K can bring, up to and including Primarchs. A Primarch is just another Super Heavy that dies to grav like everything else. 40K marines are simply better than 30K marines, especially when you let them take a lot of the best Heresy tanks/fliers as chapter relics.

[exsanguis]

How do IF do as a Drop Pod force?

 

I have five Drop Pods to be assembled, and 50 MkIV IF shoulderpads not being used. I was thinking 2x 10 Tacs, 3x 10 Support Squads with various weapons. This could be backed up by Contemptors in Pods and a Delegatus with a Command Squad maybe?

[Charlo]

How do IF do as a Drop Pod force?

 

I have five Drop Pods to be assembled, and 50 MkIV IF shoulderpads not being used. I was thinking 2x 10 Tacs, 3x 10 Support Squads with various weapons. This could be backed up by Contemptors in Pods and a Delegatus with a Command Squad maybe?

I'd imagine perfectly fine, a little above par due to the increased bolter damage.

[Frater Cornelius]

I am planning to start up IF. I generally prefer a defensive playstyle. When playing, I value resilience over output. I have been told, that IF fit my play style. I was initially looking at Stone Gauntlet with Breachers at its core, but now the negative talk has somewhat eclipsed that desire. I can certainly see why people prefer Tacs. Point for point, they do bring better dakka.

Still, in a setting dominated by Bolter and Volkite, surely T5 makes a difference, no? So why not build a list where you capitalize on taking out units that could potentially one-shot your Breacher early while have the enemy infantry bite out their teeth on the Breachers? We are talking about attrition warfare. Outlast the enemy.

 

If that won't work, can someone be a tad more specific on how to use the Stone Gauntlet RoW effectively? I am genuinely curious.

 

Cheers

Edited October 15, 2015 by Immersturm

[Hesh Kadesh]

Npbody who cares about Dakka take Tactical Squads. Bolters are worthless. BS5 increases your damage by 17%, but that's rarely worthwhile.

 

No competitive meta is won by Volkite or Bolter. As nice as Volkite Culverins are, there are a great many better options out there. Even against 40k lists, where the MSU is strong thanks to front loaded units.

 

As for taking down enemies, you have already lost the strongest tactic available; Drop Podding, followed by cheap Deep Striking Terminators.

[Frater Cornelius]

So what is the bloody point of playing Imperial Fists then?

[Terminus]

So what is the bloody point of playing Imperial Fists then?

You like their fluff and derpy Primarch?

 

The shields and gauntlets are pretty neat.

[Slips]

What Hesh said only truly applies if your in an uber competitive and cutthroat meta much like his is.

 

If your in say, one like mine where its much more beer n pretzels / narrative base, it comes down to the theme of your army and bringing things youd like to have fun.

 

Ill get back to this when I get home since im leaving work as I type this and ill try and hammer some ideas out for ya

[Caillum]

Slips will be able to give you the best advice based off experience, but here's my thoughts too as I face IF all the time.

 

I think Stone Gauntlet is very strong as a Rite of War. Yes, Breachers are pricey initially, but they only cost 10 points per additional Marine, so larger squads pay dividends. BS5 bolters might only be 17% better than BS4, but it adds up over the course of a game, even if they're only Strength 4. You also have the option to arm 1 in 5 with a Graviton gun, a strong choice provided you're standing still. Apothecaries in each unit is a must, meaning Strength 10 is required to negate the Feel No Pain.

 

Adding this to free Tank Hunters on your Lascannon Heavy Support Squads (in a Bunker with an Ammo Dump and an attached Master of Signal) means a defensive gunline army can work very well. But as Hesh said, no Deep Striking Toughness 5 Terminators, so put them in a Spartan and roll it forward into Assault range!

 

Playing without a RoW can be very good too. Tacticals have better damage output than Breachers with "Fury of the Legion", and they will outperform other armies Tacticals. You can Deep Strike those 2+/3++ Terminators and, provided they survive the initial firepower, will do well: the Void Shield Harness on a Primus Medicae will help here.

 

Generally the basics work very well, especially in a slightly relaxed meta, and Imperial Fists have the basics covered! :)

[Slips]

Also, take a look at the 1D4Chan Article on 30k.

 

Surprisingly enough, very informative.

[Lord Blackwood]

After playing my first game ( albiet a low points value one) I can certainly say that the leigon is a lot of fun , Tank hunter las cannons are great.  Templars are a fun assault unit you can make a nifty star out of with Sigismund and  your tac squads are solid to sit on objectives , also Rapier Quad Mortars are fantastic for just putting out a lot of small blasts and pinning ( pinning is big ! )  

[SkimaskMohawk]

They don't actually pin though

[Lord Blackwood]

They dont ? I thought on the little sheet it says the regular shells have pinning and the anti armor ones have sunder?

[Caillum]

Yeah, the latest pdf on the FW website says they have Pinning now. Barrage used to be Pinning in 6th ed, but the rules for Frag Shells weren't updated to reflect this until recently.

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/RapierQuadMortar40k.pdf

[Lord Blackwood]

oh  good  I dont have to call my opponent and apologize T n T 

[SkimaskMohawk]

That's for 40k, there still no pinning in 30k yet.