[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[Phalanx Warder]

 

Anybody try IF vets with heavy bolters and sniper?

 

At 12" that's 16 rending BS5 bolter shots and 6 rending BS5 heavy bolter shots.

 

Run those guys in a rhino up the field and have them camp an objective and ruin anyone's day

 

I actually ran this set up in a 2v2 a while back against wolves and necrons. The random AP 2 really came in handy, and combined with the fact that the HB are assault weapons with vets leaves you room to fire a bit and then storm in.

 

If you really want a lot of Dakka take a look at stronghold assault. You can give a bastion an upgrade so the unit inside re-rolls to hit rolls of one, and combined with a heavy weapons team with heavy bolters you can do some serious damage.

 

The stars of my list were a pair of 16 man breacher squads again with Apotehcary and the Stone Gauntlet. Man they just would not die. I think I lost like 7 marines all told by the end. It helps that after the Apothecary got stuck in a challenge with a Thunderwolf Sergeant he decided to channel the might of Sigismund and finish off the wounded Sergeant.

 

Also re-rolling armor saves against blasts and templates actually came in handy that game.

 

 

GoS is handy but it doesn't help when you roll lots of 2's or 1's 

 

My Breachers have performed at both ends of the spectrum, from looking like I was cheating to getting dusted of off the board in one fury attack. I think that the dice play a huge role here, but all told their performance and the fact that they are Fist fluffy has made me buy 40 of the expensive little buggers! Though I am personally quite a competitive individual I try to make my list around how I view the Imperial Fists off of the fluff that they currently have. the invul and special weapons out way the tax you pay to play them for me, others are not willing to pay it....... so I guess that they are a personal choice. 

 

Looking forward as the traitor legions get more boons from the chaos gods I see RoW's and the effect that they have on the force been the grate equalizer, this leaves me hoping for something amazing for us!

[Hammer of Olympia]

Holla

Quick question guys,for fist.what can I bring to the field for 1000 pts game? I recently found a 30k gaming buddy in Indonesia,so we plan to build a legion force from scratch

[Thorv88]

Guys I just read this and am struggling to find where FW have said that Phalanx Sarders are Compulsory Troops using GoS.. Is this true? I know Dorn makes it so, but does the RoW make it too??

[Slips]

Guys I just read this and am struggling to find where FW have said that Phalanx Sarders are Compulsory Troops using GoS.. Is this true? I know Dorn makes it so, but does the RoW make it too??

They aren't. They can just be taken as troops in GoS but not compulsories. Its just that most of us will be / have asked our gaming buddies if theyre ok with us ditching the Breacher Tax and using Warders instead.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Thorv88]

Ah I'm sure my local gaming group will be fine with that. They are excited to have another Heresy player :)

 

IV made a list with this as the case and IV got to say. I'm loving it a bit more. Just need to brush up on fortifications.

 

The more I look at him. The more Polux is a boss. With a Praevian behind him, they will be sick.

[Slips]

Polux is pretty great for the Stone Gauntlet being effectively S5 and T5 with an I5 Power Fist when charged in company of Warders. But make sure to talk with your buddies about his Deepstrike Rule since it interacts weirdly with the RoW.

 

Conversely, Sigismund is always a great choice if you ever really want to bring the Beatdown.

[Sheesh Mode]

Guys, I'm considering running a 2k Pride of the legion list with two spartans and tons of terminators. One is built to kill deathstars/marines, the other is built to kill marines/lighter infantry. It uses VII tactics, so storm shields fill the anti-star/deathstar squad,and combi-bolters and assault cannons abound in the other unit. 

What are peoples thoughts on Imperial Fist armored spear heads? Are they effective? What problems have they run into when using these tactics?

[Slips]

2 typical spartans (flare and armored ceramite minimum) will already cut you back 700ish points on their own. Can you still build an effective termywing army with 1.3k points when you'll have to sink a minimum of 150 into a preator for the RoW?(though the deletus is still an option) Edited June 21, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Sheesh Mode]

Yes, actually. Here: 

 

Rite of War: Pride of the Legion

 

Legion Praetor: Cataphractii Terminator Armor.Grenade Harness.Vigil Pattern Stormshield.Paragon Blade(Master Crafted)

Legion Centurion - Primus Medicae: Cataphractii Terminator Armor.Vigil Pattern Storm Shield.Solarite Power Gauntlet

Legion Centurion - Primus Medicae: Terminator Armor.Power Sword.Needle Pistol

Legion Terminator Squad: 9 Cataphractii Terminators + Sergeant.5 Vigil Pattern Storm Shields.4 Thunder Hammers.6 Power Axes.3 Combi-Bolters.2 Plasma Blasters + Spartan Assault Tank: Frag Launchers.Twin-linked Heavy Flamer.Armored Ceramite.Dozer Blade.Flare Shield.Twin-linked Laser Destroyers
Legion Terminator Squad: 9 Terminators + Sergeant.10 Power swords.8 Combi-Bolters.2 Iliastus Assault Cannon + Spartan Assault Tank: Frag Launchers.Twin-linked Heavy Flamer.Armored Ceramite.Dozer Blade.Flare Shield.Twin-linked Laser Destroyers
 

Total: 2000pts 

 

----

 

So, the list is solely focused on delivering terminators into close combat to wreck face and relies mostly on durability and assault strength to overcome the foe. The characters in the deathstar are built to be able to win challenges by outliving their opponents and smashing them in the face afterwards. An unsupported primarch will die if the Shield/Axe/Hammer unit assaults them. Hell, they might die if they assault the unit. However, Angron with support is definitely a hard opponent, what with his ability to single out multiple characters. But the wonders of modern technology have given us storm shields and solarite power gauntlets.

From the looks of the Imperial Fist battle doctrines and general build, they suit a terminator spearhead well. Our primarch even makes them troops without the deficiencies of our rite of war. Further, the challenge benefits we receive make up for less attacks when they bear storm shields. So long as the hits stick, it's alright if there are less of them. However, we still have one of the weakest primarchs in the game, and while having s9 thunderhammers and s6 power axes are neat Dorn's relative weakness as a primarch bears consideration. Especially as the unit is meant to be a counter-star.

Perhaps it would work if Dorn and his unit got the charge? Maybe. At 2500 points very little would change in the list, a few upgrades certainly. But Dorn would make up the primary addition to the force. 

So, yeah. Here's an example of an Imperial Fist Armored Spearhead, I guess. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

What happens when you 6+ Gravitons killing one Spartan turn 1 and leaving your beatstick in difficult and dangerous terrain,,and doing the same turn 2,,or maybe bring on my 2 Drop Pod Dreads hitting you for 4 more hit points and using my Tank Hunting Praevians with Darkfire Castellax buffed to BS5. I have first blood, and your units are now sat in difficult and dangerous terrain while I offload my Typhon putting a S10 Ap1 blast ignoring cover.

 

This is my all comers list, by the way, not one tailored to take down your list specifically. It just happens to make a special mess of people trying to Sspam abuses in this manner.

[Slips]

The biggest most glaring problem this list has is that its only 2 units in 2 tanks. You go up against horde or MSU armies and you lose the objective game handily and cant feasibly take their whole army out which is +/- the only way you could realistically win. Unless you roll up killpoints. But then, you opponent just needs to kill 23 TEQ models once their out of the tanks and its GG

 

A 2k hammer head such as this would do well in 3k+ lists since it means you can bring more support elements such as Deredeos, Sicarans, and more bodies in general.

 

As for Dorn, hes actually better in bigger games since you can also bring along Aetos Dios, make more widespread use of his armywide LD10 as well as better CR scores and the like.

 

At 2.5k with only two units in spartans to show for, I'd grab a Typhon instead if you could.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Dono1979]

Gotta agree with Slip and Hesh, while they were all the craz early on into the emergence of 30K, Double Spartan Prides lists are woefully vulnerable, especially when using the missions and deployments from the 30K books. Once those Spartans are dead (and a good all round list will be able to kill a Spartan easily enough) those termies are effectively confined to 24" bubble as they arent running anywhere.

 

Even if you do survive, you can only engage two units at a time unless your opponent is silly enough to bunch them together and let you multi charge. You will be hard pressed to do much damage to a Militia or SA list.

[Sheesh Mode]

How does one make an all comers list for 30k Imperial Fists? I've no real concept of how to make all comer lists in 30k.

[Slips]

Its mostly filling in a checklist and then adding your own personal flavor to it.

 

ex:

 

1. Anti-Air (if needed): Usually a Deredeo or another flyer such as the Fire Raptor. C-Mortis can do the job if you're tight on Heavy Support.
2. Anti-Tank: Best bang for your buck would be Thudd Gun Rapiers due to volume of fire, Graviton Rapiers being a solid choice if you're up vs lots of tightly packed armor and/or Spartans. Venators can also do the job as can Deredeos.
3. Anti-Infantry: Usually done with your own infantry, the most 'open' of the TAC choices.
4. Anti-TEQ: Speaks for itself. A bit rarer than MEQ but can still easily be spammed.
5. Anti-Admech (High T / MC's, If needed): usually means Fleshbane Weaponry (destroyers) or high RoF, High Strength Shooting, etc.

 

After that its taking specific wargear options to limit anything your opponent might be trying to do such as taking Augury Scanners to make life hard on Infiltration/Deepstrike based armies, Melta Bombs on anyone who can take them to deal with armor in a pinch, Ap2 Power Weapons on Sarges and Artificer Armor on them aswell to deal with other Artificer Armor sarges and tank shots for the squad.

 

Things like that. On the tentative, totally-not-final list, anti-tank and anti-infantry are the most important.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Slipstreams

[xera32]

How does one make an all comers list for 30k Imperial Fists? I've no real concept of how to make all comer lists in 30k.

 

Like you would for any legion list, bring enough AT to take out a spartan a turn, enough AI to take out blobs of marines or solar auxiliary a turn, enough AA (either by dedicated AA or volume of fire) to down a Storm Eagle a turn and enough scoring bodies to last to the end of the game (whether by durability, numbers, or evasion). After that everything else should be doable with the right movement and planning. Then you just need to reevaluate units that are buffed by your special rules/wargear and RoW.

[Charlo]

While I don't have time or funds to start a heresy army yet, the Fists are looking intriguing for sure. If Dorn gets a sweet model this could definitely swing it :P

 

Currently a bit torn between all of the Loyalist legions and the IW (boo hiss I know) but was wondering if anyone has some more extensive experience of the Fists? I'd probably be using them in 40k as I don't know any heresy players near me...

 

One thing I do notice is that you can take allies with the GoS RoW, could be useful!

Edited July 25, 2015 by Charlo

[Slips]

While I don't have time or funds to start a heresy army yet, the Fists are looking intriguing for sure. If Dorn gets a sweet model this could definitely swing it

 

Currently a bit torn between all of the Loyalist legions and the IW (boo hiss I know) but was wondering if anyone has some more extensive experience of the Fists? I'd probably be using them in 40k as I don't know any heresy players near me...

 

One thing I do notice is that you can take allies with the GoS RoW, could be useful!

Depends, what would you want out of a 30k IF Force? 

[Charlo]

Ideally something different to my 40k BA, so probably shooty and fortifications etc?

[Slips]

Ideally something different to my 40k BA, so probably shooty and fortifications etc?

Alright, so that kinda pushes Stone Gauntlet off to the side

 

Now, What kind of Shooting? Infantry Based? Artillery?

For Intantry: preference over elite shooting units or blob squads?

Edited July 25, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Charlo]

Oh, I quite like the breachers and Shields etc? Is Stone gauntlet that bad? I figured with some good shooting and forts it could work?

[Slips]

Oh, I quite like the breachers and Shields etc? Is Stone gauntlet that bad? I figured with some good shooting and forts it could work?

Stone Gauntlet isn't really made for Gunlines. Its made for more of a Counter-Assault force which focuses on Breachers, Warders and SS equipped Terminators. While, yes, you could use the T5 Shield units as tougher Tac Marines for a gunline, Tac Marines would still do it better and more efficiently.

 

Stone Gauntlet, I feel, is best suited for ZM games where Breachers, Warders and, to an extent, Shield Equipped Terminators shine much more mostly since the majority of their special rules will have a chance to come into play: You wont be seeing many AP2/3 templates/Blasts in ZM meaning that Hardened armor will come into play more and with the "reaction fire" special rule forcing an initiative test to overwatch at full BS, Phalanx Warders +1 initiative when charged actually makes sense.

 

And since Breachers are your Forced compulsory options, you're left paying a Hefty tax for a unit that you plan on using exactly like Tac Marines when their role is quite different. Mostly since they have more flexible wargear options but cost nearly as much naked as 15+ Tac marines. And for a gunline, More bodies is usually a better bet.

 

If you do want to use Stone Gauntlet, talk to Phalanx Warder, he uses such a type of list.

 

 

Now, for gunlines, you have a Few Options. But the Standard "Template" for them usually involves multiple 20 Man Tac Blobs with Attached Apothecaries. After that you can choose either Infantry based support or Mechanized Support either having their own pros and cons. Though most of out Bonuses seem to favor Infantry Based Lists. S6 Volkite Culverin Squads with Tank Hunters means that they can threaten anything that isnt Av13 or Higher or T10 (needing 6's vs T9 and T8, but, hey, you've got 4 shots per marine), for example. You also gain Stubborn in Cover so perfect for immobile lists.

[StruManChu]

Building on what Slips has said above, I played a gunline list against Word Bearers last night, and my Tactical Squads were invaluable. I would have lost hard if I'd tried to run Stone Gauntlet and used Breachers instead.

 

My list -

Polux w/ Command Squad (3 bods, 2 x power weapons, 1 x Fist, 3 x Combat Shields)

2 x 10 Man Tactical - Nuncio, Melta bombs (1 x Sarge w/ Artificer & Power Fist, Rhino on one squad)

1 x 10 Man Breacher - Nuncio

Thudd Gun

2 x Predators (Lascannon Sponsons)

1 x Achilles Alpha

 

His List

Kor Phaeron

Chaplain

Diabolist

1 x Contemptor (LC, DCCW)

2 x Apothecaries

10 x Gal Vorbak

2 x 10 Tactical Squad (1 Apothecary each, with Kor and the Chaplain attached to either squad. Rolled Hatred for both squad with Dark Channelling)

 

Admittedly at 1500 points I probably didn't bring as much in the way of Troops as perhaps I should have, but I wanted to use what I've got painted minis for, which meant an armoured list, and that ended up working pretty well for me. Another thing that worked pretty well for me was the fact that he rolled Life Eater on the Mysterious Terrain table and lost three of his Gal Vorbak before the game started!

 

Basically, he ran/fleeted towards me and I shot at him, which was hardly unpredictable. 

 

Some notes from my experience (these will not be earth-shattering, as this was my first game in about four years. They're as much for me as any one else!)- 

 

MVP - My most effective unit was either the Polux squad or the Achilles-Alpha. The Achilles-Alpha essentially accounted for Kor Phaeron, an Apothecary and a Tactical squad by itself in two turns of shooting, netting me something like six VP in the scenario we were playing, as well as other incidental kills (3 Gal Vorbak and a wound on his Diabolist), but Polux was the game-changer. I had him and his Command Squad arrive on Turn 4 from Deep Strike, and in that turn he Combi-Melta'd the Contemptor, survived a charge and challenge from a very angry Gal Vorbak Dark Martyr, killing him in the next round of combat while the squad took care of the remaining Gal Vorbak and the Chaplain, and then they moved on to his remaining tactical squad, killing six on the charge with Polux challenging and instant-deathing the Diabolist in the last roll of the final turn with his special attack, which meant I'd been able to table the Word Bearers, which I felt pretty good about!

 

Alternate MVP was my Rhino that delayed his Gal Vorbak from reaching my lines by a turn by parking itself in a conveniently annoying spot and thus giving me another round of shooting at them.

 

Make room in your list for Apothecaries! Seriously. The difference in casualties between his squads and mine simply for having that extra FNP save was ridiculous. Admittedly he was rerolling a load of dice on charges due to Hatred, but if I'd had them too, the Apothecaries would certainly have made my Tac squads more effective. As it was, I had a single surviving Tactical Marine at the end of the game, with the Breacher and other Tac squad completely wiped out. Not good enough!

 

Shatter Shells are wonderful - Comparing the effectiveness of the Quad Mortar's shooting on the Achilles to the Thudd Gun, which doesn't have Shatter Shells, the Achilles wins hands down. You don't have the option of taking one in a LR squad, as far as I know, but in smaller games where you're less likely to get many dedicated anti-tank units, the extra points you pay for an Achilles-Alpha over a regular Achilles seem very much worth it. The Thudd Gun by itself simply isn't going to do enough damage to warrant inclusion in a list, and if I'd dropped it I would have had points for an Apothecary with some upgrades.

 

Bolters of Glory - I totally, embarrassingly forgot that you can't shoot next turn if you use Fury. This was a badness. However, +1 BS to Overwatch when you're being charged by Gal Vorbak is a thrice-damned lifesaver.

 

Changes for next time - The Predators probably didn't do enough to justify their inclusion without some changes. If I'd found the points to include my Executioner Cannon it would likely have been way more use against the Gal Vorbak than the standard loadout, which would have let me focus the majority of my shooting onto targets. I'll likely drop the Rhino and the Thudd Gun next time for either two Apothecaries or one and the Executioner. That said, I may also drop a Predator and add more bodies to my Troop squads.

 

Moral of the Story - If you're insistin' on a Fistin',  Polux is your man.

[Slips]

Stru, happy and all for your win but, all 30k thudd guns have shatter shells :p

[Marshal Loss]

Moral of the Story - If you're insistin' on a Fistin',  Polux is your man.

 

I feel like this should be the new motto of the Imperial Fists. Nice writeup!

[Kriegriss]

thanks for the batter noted make for some food for thought