How to: winning with CSM in 7th

[Zhukov]

Hey folks. After initial dissapointment in 7th followed by the terrible FAQ's, I regained some of my interest in 40k again. Luckily for you, that means I'll write down some of my thoughts on CSM now and then in here. Today I'll be giving you my current vision of how to play CSM in 7th if you want to compete. Warning: Possibly incoherent story incoming, I hope you can follow my thought process.

 

7th:

 

I assume Maelstrom missions in some kind of form will be played. I like the idea personally, just not how it's in the rulebook. (too random)

Vehicles got a decent boost. The fact that they score is a bigger thing than the slightly changed table, although the latter helps obviously as well.

Fliers and FMC's are less of an issue, because they don't play the scoring game well, or at all.

 

Psychic phase.... Hard to say. I lean towards: Go big or go home, although bringing 1 or 2 psychers ain't bad (little investment and the d6 powerdice you get are relatively worth more the fewer psychers you have). Overall I wonder if psycher heavy is worth it for any army though, simply more units to shoot or assault might work just as well or better.

 

Objective secured is pretty important, mostly so because of Maelstrom though. What? Well, as far as I'm concerned: In 6th when you claimed objectives, at the end of the game, there simply weren't other units left a lot of times to contest. What you kill, can't contest or score after all. But as you can't kill everything turn 1, scoring with the Objective Secured rule can be very good during the game, thus Maelstrom.

 

 

Armies in 7th:

 

Expect lots of Vehicles (again, like in 5th), swaths of them! Thus also lots of anti-tank, mostly in the form of S7, but some heavier shooting is needed because... Well, mostly Necrons, to a lesser extent Soulgrinders/Russes/Land Raiders.

 

I fully expect people to play the vehicle MSU game again, preferably with a lot of OS troops. Wave Serpents, Ghost Arks, scouting Rhinos, Psybacks. Think 5th edition.

 

Is that it? More or less, I'm not going into further detail in any case, it's about the big lines.

 

CSM in 7th:

 

So, we are going the MSU shooty route as well right?! Loads of Rhinos and some Oblits, like in 5th right?! Nah, I don't think so.

 

See, here is the problem: We didn't do this well in 5th and we haven't gotten any better at it. Our codex does not support this style. Our shooting is still terrible, like really. Sure, spamming OS Rhinos will win you some games, because you understand what wins games in 7th and your oppenents might not. If you meet other people who do know how to win, but they play with a proper army? Aye, you lose.

 

Now I'm not saying it's terrible, I just think it's not the way to go. I don't see the fun of it either, your playing a worse version.... We don't have Wave Serpents, or Ghost Arks, not even scouting Rhinos.

 

Oh, Heldrake ain't gonna save us either.

 

Exactly why we can't play the MSU game? In the end because we cannot do it while having the damage to deal with other armies, due to our shooting being poor. Assaulting from Rhinos is still not possible... which makes me angry again, moving on:

 

We are going to assault! Yes people, we are going to beat the crap out of oppenents while pretty much ignoring anti-air. Why? Because how else are you going to kill all those Serpents and Av13 Necron Vehicles? You gonna shoot with a couple of lasscannons and autocannons at it? Do the math and be dissapointed.

 

But Assault sucked right? Irrelevant, I can't make the codex better than it is, I can only try to get the most out of it, which i've done for 2 editions now and which I'll do again in 7th provided I continue playing 'competitively' (doesn't any longer exist for 40k imo but whatever).

 

Good units:

 

Maulerfiends. This one gets me excited. Yes the damage table, I know, well that goes for every vehicle, that's not it. No, the change to Smash is *very* important for Walkers. Before every MC virtually could kill walkers without issue, but those days are over. This makes them better and it also means you could field him with Magna Cutters, instead of Tendrils. I think every CSM list should have 3. It's our way of delivering S10 on the rear of vehicles, killing them with ease. Works better than shooting lasscannons at it or praying those 2 melta shots are gonna get a killshot. (melta got worse, relatively, due to Jink and the damage table). They still get killed obviously, but that's how it is. That's why 3 are probably mandatory.

 

Spawn. I'm glad I bought 10 Spawn with a huge discount back then. They're still good. Deal with MSU units and most transports very well, by being fast combined with a lot of S5 attacks. Pretty tough to kill still as well.

 

Bikes. Combination of Maulerfiends and Spawn basicly in that they can handle every kind of unit, just less efficient. I see them best used as a delivery system of a Chaos Lord. 15 Spawn seems excessive, 10 spawn and 1 bike unit looks about okay to me. In 6th I didn't advice them as they had to compete with Heldrakes as well, but you can now choose to play with them, speaking of which:

 

Heldrake. Still okay to run 1. You'll be going into hover mode more often probably, which can work out alright if you provide enough other targets.

 

 

As troops it gets tough. Some options:

 

Possessed. Running 2x5 Possessed as your mandatory troops can certainly be an option (yes you are going to run the CS supp). They fit well with the theme.

 

Cultists. Still the cheapest way of getting your detachment legal eh? They just don't work well for claiming objectives througout the whole game and any kind of artillery just messes them up royaly. Combining them with other troops could work decently, depending on rulespack you are playing with.

 

5 CSM in a rhino. Even though I don't see spamming these as a good option, they certainly aren't bad, they fit with the core rules. Other armies just do it better

 

5 Plague Marines in a rhino. I want this to work, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Still too expensive, but you could do worse, they are well rounded still and a better option than in 6th at least. 

 

As HQ:

 

Daemon Prince of Nurgle is interesting. It's a pitty that Eldar makes a mess of him. Still, an interesting option which needs testing. You could run him with just Wings, or go all-out, both is fine.

 

Sorcerer: Fine, spell familiar helps us out here to get 1 or 2 spells off before running out of dice. A spell which will probably be denied as your oppenent has over 20 power dice.

 

Chaos Lord: Beatstick. Fine. It's slightly more attractive to run a different setup than Nurgle on Bike, due to the change of Smash.

 

Some other units:

 

Dreadnoughts. No, these didn't get enough of a buff. Who cares that you run Maulerfiends, or what other reasons you can find: They still lack damage output. They neither shoot well, nor assault well. I wish we could give them the Daemon of Slaanesh rule. This would make them a crappier, but cheaper version of the Maulerfiend.

 

Noise Marines with Blastmasters are attractive as backfield scorers, if that's still gonna be a thing. Blastmaster is an excellent weapon in this edition in any case.

 

Predators. Meh, unchanged. Not terrible, but I think Maulers are simply better.

 

Land Raiders. Got better at actually getting there to deliver something. I rather take units which can deliver themselves though, but each to his own I guess.

 

Vindi. Nah, Eldar and Necrons are too mobile, they will target your side armour with ease.

 

 

Here, some example lists, 1st one showing the theme I'm going for, followed by 2 more conventional lists:

 

Daemon Prince; MoN, armour, wings, lvl 3, familiar 310
Sorcerer; prophet, Lvl 3, familiar, daemonheart 185
5 Possessed; MoN 150

5 Possessed; MoN 150

5 Possessed; MoN 150
Heldrake; baleflamer 170
5 Spawn; MoN 180
5 Spawn; MoN 180
Maulerfiend 125
Maulerfiend 125
Maulerfiend 125
Total: 1850

 

List with Possessed and some mastery levels. You hope for some good powers with the Daemon Prince, but if not, no problem: Your sorcerer is gonna spawn a neat unit of Daemonettes every turn probably. Perrils? No problem, IWND! At least, that's how it's supposed to work and that's how it worked for me in 6th as well.

 

Chaos Lord; MoN, Powerfist, Lightning Claw, Bike, Daemonheart, Horn, Sigil 210
5 Plague Marines; 2x plasma, rhino 185
5 Plague Marines; 2x plasma, rhino 185
5 Plague Marines; 2x plasma, rhino 185
5 Plague Marines; 2x plasma, rhino 185
5 Chaos Bikes; MoN, powerfist 165
5 Spawn; MoN 180
5 Spawn; MoN 180
Maulerfiend 125
Maulerfiend 125
Maulerfiend 125
Total: 1850

 

A list with Plague Marines. I putted plasma on all of them, but frankly, weapons are to taste. If you want: run them dozer blade and powerfist lol.

 

Daemon Prince; MoN, wings 200
Daemon Prince; MoN, wings 200
5 CSM; rhino, plasma, combiplasma, dozer 140
5 CSM; rhino, plasma, combiplasma, dozer 140
5 CSM; rhino, plasma, combiplasma, dozer 140
5 CSM; rhino, plasma, combiplasma, dozer 140
5 CSM; rhino, plasma, combiplasma, dozer 140
5 CSM; rhino, plasma, combiplasma, dozer 140
5 Spawn; MoN 180
5 Spawn; MoN 180
Maulerfiend 125
Maulerfiend 125
Total: 1850

 

An OS spam list, just to show how it would look like. Weapons to taste again, you probably want some melta or at lest meltaboms in there. Maybe run 2x plasma, 2x flamer, 2x melta and meltabombs on all of them. Dozers are mandatory in a list like these, as your foot print is considerably, you will need to cross terrain with rhinos.

 

Note: Using allies will most likely yield you (much) stronger lists. But as this is a CSM forum, I mostly focus on CSM.

[Spaz431]

I agree with you on some of these ideas. I have personally played out 8 games in 7th and allow me to say the 3 drakes list is still potent.

My list at 2k without points includes 2 nurgle dark apostles, 2 nurgle marine squads, 3 drakes (1 bolt), a 20 man cultist, 2 brutes, a mauler, a forge, and a chaos knight. With that list I have an average set of w/t/l - 2/3/3. That is actually a strong balance making 7th so far my favorite of the newer editions. That statistic comes down to the flip of the cards or roll on the chart. Maelstrom is just fun. On my first game of 7th when I realized the drake could hover, it became my instant MVP, scoring and killing. The mauler gets focus fired too often. My forge gets mixed results. The knight does well against my opponents heavies. This list I play aggressively.

My main counter point to your post, while being very concise, is that 7th has allowed some of the units people never considered to be brought to the table. And DEFINATELY, what has worked for one person may not work for another.

[Sception]

When you say 'the' mauler - you run only one?  Have you tried proxying a second or third mauler in your games?

 

One mauler dies far too easily to be much worth.  If you want to run them at all, then it's 2-3 maulers, plus multiple units of spawn or bikes, from what I can tell.

[Spaz431]

With how I've run it, yes it did die to more focused fire but, I did use it as bait for where my chaos knight was going to fire. So no complaint. I could get a second mauler, but I like the fire capability of the forge fiend with triple ectoplasma. Just funny watching it shoot and possibly get hot and kill itself.

[tbone]

awesome post Zhukov. I have had many of the same ideas. Maulerfiends are definitely the way to go… We have to be able to catch all of those fast skimmer vehicles, our shooting will simply never do it.

 

One thing I think you missed is Be'lakor. CSM having access to him is certainly worth noting. 2+ cover save, 4++ guaranteed invisibility (which is usually all I do in my psychic phase)... Which is super nice to be able to pick a unit at a certain time and make it able to survive. do you think he is cost prohibitive at 1850?

 

I am curious about your second lists choice of bikers weapons (this one's pretty close to how I run my CSM). I run almost the exact same squad except that I take 2 meltas and melta bombs while you just take a PF?

 

Again also post. I hope this spawns more discussion on a macro approach towards winning more 40K games.

[Zhukov]

awesome post Zhukov. I have had many of the same ideas. Maulerfiends are definitely the way to go… We have to be able to catch all of those fast skimmer vehicles, our shooting will simply never do it.

 

One thing I think you missed is Be'lakor. CSM having access to him is certainly worth noting. 2+ cover save, 4++ guaranteed invisibility (which is usually all I do in my psychic phase)... Which is super nice to be able to pick a unit at a certain time and make it able to survive. do you think he is cost prohibitive at 1850?

 

I am curious about your second lists choice of bikers weapons (this one's pretty close to how I run my CSM). I run almost the exact same squad except that I take 2 meltas and melta bombs while you just take a PF?

 

Again also post. I hope this spawns more discussion on a macro approach towards winning more 40K games.

Thank you!

 

Yes I missed Be'lakor, but on purpose. There is a thread floating around, written by me, which discusses Belly. I intend to update that one at some point, but I want to get some games with him in first before I do that. In any case: No, I don't think he's cost prohibitive. The issue is that the builds I'm into don't generate a lot of dice, in which case I rather try to get spells off by using casters who have a spell familiar. Rolling invisiblity reliably would require to roll around 7 dice and even then it can be stopped by an opposing GK or Daemon player. I'm not convinced yet he's as good as previous edition, purely because he's less reliable (while reliability was the reason you took him before!).

 

2x melta and meltabombs is fine too. I just think at the moment that the Powerfist will help winning assaults and will function pretty much the same otherwise. (Lord issues the mandatory challenge, Champ gets to hit the unit. If you don't challenge, well 3 powerfist attacks on the back of a vehicle functions the same as 2 melta shots + a meltabomb. Different way to achieving the same result).

[Emperors Immortals]

Nice write up Zhukov. I've found that I'm taking a core of 5man CSM in rhino with full plasma (and havok launchers if there's points) then adding at least 2 maulers, 6 spawn and as many melts bikers as possible.

 

I've found a relic predator with plasma addsalot of heavy firepower and is very cheap.

 

HQis slaanesh lord on steed to outflank the bikers. If I want a change, ill add NM blasterbox or Khârn with cultist blob.

 

I'm ignoring magic until I get a better deal somehow.

[Prot]

I like this thread. There's a whole lot of positive going on here.

 

I also agree that 7th gives Chaos some new stuff to try out that might be valid (especially for Maelstrom which is what we predominately play here.)

 

I agree that Chaos can't shoot enough to play that game. I think a few times in 6th I would run Khorne lists with dual maulers, and a rushing Defiler (6" while spewing the cannon). I did that with Khârn and an assaulty rhino list and sometimes a DP. In all honesty I was surprised how much I could catch the odd guy off guard with how fast some stuff moves.

 

What I'm thinking for 7th is using 2 Maulers again, but combining a 3 Helbrute formation. (I don't own the rules yet, but I understand one of the three options is pretty okay (allows deepstriking.)

 

I also agree about psykers. While I have no inclination to use space hippies, I still think Divination alone makes Crimson Slaughter appealing (if you want space hippies, grab Voices).

 

I think while Khârn appeals the Night Lords might do this as well with a Biker Lord (flamer power?).

 

I've never really liked playing with the Spawns... just because the figs really don't do much for me, but I can imagine they work too.

 

Crimson Slaughter is pretty easy to go with for Chaos since I think the problem of finding a decent troop is a little more flexible here with the possessed option.

[Sheesh Mode]

I have been running the Black Legion supplement built around a Chosen star led by Khârn. Out of the dozen or more games I have played thus far, my landraider has only been destroyed 3 times due to Orbital bombardments or multiple Demolisher/Heavy Rail Cannon rounds. It has not disappointed me in my quest for blood and skulls and I have come to expect that single Chosen squad to exterminate armies. Once my men get stuck in, they and Khârn kill anything they touch and only in very rare circumstances am I wrong. Nothing less than Primarchs, Knight Titans and multiple Daemon Princes are enough to stop this squad. 

 

Cultists remains a distraction. The Helcult formation has given us a relatively cheap firing magnet which can be used to good effect. One need not even upgrade both squads, just leave a minimum unit in the back with autoguns for lucky shots against outflankers and deepstrikers. The mob themselves almost always dies, but they do their job: making people stand still. My landraider moves 18" a turn; the faster I get into striking range with my chosen the better. VotLW is a mixed bag, at times it is almost useless save for the moral boost (which in today's edition proves needed) but against marines? I only run 2 chosen squads and they are built to kill marines.

 

Zhukov's thoughts echo my own strategies: I ignore flyers. I see no need for them as my army tears across the field to kill their ground forces. It has worked well. I will add though that very few of the people I've played use flyers, they may even feel it is unsporting to carry that advantage against me. I will do my best to convince them otherwise. 

 

One word of note to everyone here: This tactic will cost us our armies. We will lose thousands of points in bodies and broken tanks by taking this road, our specialists will die and our characters will eventually fall. Yet, be as it may, this has never stopped me from winning or coming close by a slim margin. I simply add to tell future players what they will see and to prepare themselves accordingly. 

 

I look forward to seeing you on the field, brothers.

[qyntius]

Awesome thread definitely gave me stuff to consider in building a new list.

[Tenebris]

A question to you Tacticus Logi, what about the armies without any Marks...?

 

I personally hate the MoN need, and I try to stay away from it as far as possible, same as for the Emperor's Children, I have played them for... too long. I know that there is little that Chaos can do bar ally with daemons but I think that there is some alternative to the Marks or to the generic Rhino spam.

 

I had some reasonable results with the following:

 

Dark Apostle

Chaos Sorcerer

 

Terminators in a Land Raider

 

10 CSM, 2x Plasma, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon, Rhino

10 CSM, 2x Plasma, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon, Rhino

 

Helcult formation

 

Spawn

Heldrake

 

Maulerfiend

Maulerfiend

 

The rest of the points is spent on Daemons or more Daemonic Engines. I am also tempted to go the Predator Executioner route (the one with the plasma cannon) to fill in some dakka. But I have noticed that when fighting the Maelstrom missions one needs to be flexible. I understand that the lists above have the potential of going target overload but I think that even infantry has a go, as well as blocks of cultists, especially when facing orks who really need to be given some tender meat in order to prolong their charge, so chaff units are almost mandatory. 

[Sheesh Mode]

How many cultists per squad?

[the jeske]

The MSU will be very strong in 7th imo. The first MEQ codex is going to be tell us the most about how this edition will shape.

There is just to much good cheap units combos , as Z mentioned. Henchaman+razorback/rhino , single paladins , cheap bikers , DA in serpents.

 

 

What we have to be looking out for is multi army combinations[The ally combinations are still not dead. beware of the incoming BA+marines/DA combos in the future] and multi detachment armies , specialy skew builds . I know that Z likes balanced lists , so do I [although am too much of a chicken to play random builds] But Imagine you could be runing 4-5 maulers in a 1850 list. Is it 6th ed eldar lvl? of course not[the codex base is not good enough. the mauler would need+1AV or be a MC for that] , but we will be skew match ups for more then a few msu builds.

 

 

How many cultists per squad?

 

If your taking them to unlock a detachment 10. Otherwise 10-20 is ok , depends a lot what you run in the list. Are there demons in your list , are there csm/pms/nm in the list[and if yes how many units and with how many rhinos]. is it a summoning list.

 

 

Also RIP helldrake.

[Dallas Drake]

This is quite interesting and not totally unrelated to what Jeske is saying.

 

http://www.torrentoffire.com/5087/early-7th-edition-win-rates-are-in

 

MSU & fast OS troops are going to be fundamental. In fact, I think they're so necessary in Maelstrom that we need to have another plan/approach. Fast OS troops is something CSM don't really have (Daemonettes as allies?). We do have access to Daemons and good psychic powers so can focus on wiping out our enemies troops if needs be. Maybe Pyromancy has been overlooked? Also, if we can kill off/lock up all their (our opponents) OS troops then do we really need to bring many of our own?

[Sheesh Mode]

 

 

How many cultists per squad?

 

If your taking them to unlock a detachment 10. Otherwise 10-20 is ok , depends a lot what you run in the list. Are there demons in your list , are there csm/pms/nm in the list[and if yes how many units and with how many rhinos]. is it a summoning list.

I meant the model count to Tenebris's squads. I agree with you that the number of cultists you take in your army is related to how your list is organized, whether you have Daemons or marked marines. I personally use a 35 man blob to protect the brute and a 10 man blob to hold a rear-field objective.

[Tenebris]

Usually it is 20 both, 10 if I am tight with points. If I use the Terminators as termicide squads that it is 10 for I use the Land Raider points on Horrors, Herald and if I trim a bit maybe the portal. It all depends on what I suspect my adversaries will bring at the tournament or campaign. Still I refuse to include a single Mark in my army lists or cult units either. I have been experimenting with them all for the past two years and they fit ill with some thematic lists. Also I can loose background points (a new stratagem in my club to keep us from spamming broken combos). 

 

But overall the benefit of the Helcult formation are the two blobs of fearless chaff. Much like their icon Helbrute they get thrown to the wolves in order to buy my units some precious time. 

[Lord Asvaldir]

I have been running the Black Legion supplement built around a Chosen star led by Khârn. Out of the dozen or more games I have played thus far, my landraider has only been destroyed 3 times due to Orbital bombardments or multiple Demolisher/Heavy Rail Cannon rounds. It has not disappointed me in my quest for blood and skulls and I have come to expect that single Chosen squad to exterminate armies. Once my men get stuck in, they and Khârn kill anything they touch and only in very rare circumstances am I wrong. Nothing less than Primarchs, Knight Titans and multiple Daemon Princes are enough to stop this squad. 

 

 

That sounds very cool, what do you normally run on the chosen?

[Dallas Drake]

 

 

I have been running the Black Legion supplement built around a Chosen star led by Khârn. Out of the dozen or more games I have played thus far, my landraider has only been destroyed 3 times due to Orbital bombardments or multiple Demolisher/Heavy Rail Cannon rounds. It has not disappointed me in my quest for blood and skulls and I have come to expect that single Chosen squad to exterminate armies. Once my men get stuck in, they and Khârn kill anything they touch and only in very rare circumstances am I wrong. Nothing less than Primarchs, Knight Titans and multiple Daemon Princes are enough to stop this squad.

 

That sounds very cool, what do you normally run on the chosen?

Chuck Norris upgrades from the sounds of it ;)

[Sheesh Mode]

 

I have been running the Black Legion supplement built around a Chosen star led by Khârn. Out of the dozen or more games I have played thus far, my landraider has only been destroyed 3 times due to Orbital bombardments or multiple Demolisher/Heavy Rail Cannon rounds. It has not disappointed me in my quest for blood and skulls and I have come to expect that single Chosen squad to exterminate armies. Once my men get stuck in, they and Khârn kill anything they touch and only in very rare circumstances am I wrong. Nothing less than Primarchs, Knight Titans and multiple Daemon Princes are enough to stop this squad. 

 

 

That sounds very cool, what do you normally run on the chosen?

 

Here is the full load- out of the squad. Leader, transport, and all. 

 

Khârn The Betrayer

Chosen champion: Power Axe/Combi-Melta/Bolt pistol

Chosen (8) - 2 Twin Lighting Claws/2 Meltas/1 Power Fist/ Icon of Wrath/ 

Landraider: Dirge Caster/Dozer Blade/Extra Armor

Total cost: 778pts

 

I consider it points well spent. However it is not invincible, I have yet to face any kind of Eldar or Bike army and the majority of my kills have been soft bodied gun lines - Tau and Imperial Guard - thus I have less experience fighting an opponent capable of outrunning me. Furthermore I do not know how well my list will fare against mobs of Orks and Tyranids; I may butcher them all or be drowned in a sea of gore, only the Blood God knows. 

 

But I will meet the challenge, it is what I am. 

 

 

Edit: I'll add that this unit will accomplish nothing if you do not apply it correctly. I have come close to losing the game - and outright lost - because I was too foolhardy with my army. Do not rush into your enemy's killzone, don't ever do it unless you plan to sacrifice what you have put there. Imperial Guard are incredibly powerful and will annihilate a target as soon as they get a clear shot. I drive through terrain and around mountains, usually by hugging the extreme edge of the map, and take a 90 degree turn to sweep up the rest of the force. 

 

If you want to see the list in more detail check out my thread Khârn's Black Tide in the Throne of Skulls topic.

[Prot]

Sounds like a potent Chosen squad. Your opponent would be crazy to ignore it or not at least tarpit it. 

 

I like that you've gone full out on the marks, and even the icon (unexpected). The rest of your list must be very... vanilla though I assume to get your numbers up???

[Emperors Immortals]

I just ran a list that worked well. It had;

 

Sllaneshi lord infiltrating with bikers, they split up after and attacked different targets. Had blade of relentless and stuff.

Murder pack - the 3 Helbrutes one

2 NM blaster box - used them to fast move annd grab objectives, then used the rhinios with a combi and havok launcher to be mobile blast platform

2 maulers ran stright up and were shielded by

3 spawn who also helped hide

16 daemoettes and Herald.

 

 

I deepstruck the brutes and ran everythig from cover to cover, with the NM heading for midfield objectives - i lost one rhino waiting for DS to land.

The Lord came on with the bikers, at this point his DZ was getting busy.

He then had to choose between what was there already and teh Maulers about to crash into his line.

The daemonettes cleaned up the infantry breaking out.

 

 

I played against BT and think i got a bit lucky - he had atrocious roles. But I think it could be a good list.

 

Any suggestions to inprove it? im thinking of either swapping to all spawn or all bikers.

 

 

- im really keen to try out a Khârn list too, youve made a few good ones now SheeshMode -

[Lord Asvaldir]

Very interesting build. Most people these days seem to be heavily advocating 4-5x plasma/melta chosen, but given they have base 2 attacks I feel part of what you are paying for them is wasted, so it's nice to see someone is using them as a combat unit. I'll have to give that a go because I love the idea of a lord and his chosen reunite in a land raider. 

 

My usual opponent is space marines, and he never uses bikes so I think a chosen reunite would do well against it, though I definitely see your point about fast/heavy firepower armies being an issue. I run a necron list that could probably avoid the unit, and then you have to consider there's better combat units out there to watch out for. Will be fun to play test though. 

[Sheesh Mode]

- im really keen to try out a Khârn list too, youve made a few good ones now SheeshMode -

Thank you. Honestly I'm honored.

Sounds like a potent Chosen squad. Your opponent would be crazy to ignore it or not at least tarpit it.

I like that you've gone full out on the marks, and even the icon (unexpected). The rest of your list must be very... vanilla though I assume to get your numbers up???

More or less correct. Here:

Kharns Black Tide, 2000pts:

Khârn the Betrayer

Chaos Lord: Twin Linked Lightning claws/Jumppack/Aura of Dark Glory/Mark of Slaanesh

Chosen (9)champion: Power Axe/Combi-Melta/Bolt pistol -Squad: 2 Twin Lighting Claws/2 Meltas/1 Power Fist/ Icon of Wrath/

Chosen (6) Champion: Combi Plas/Close Combat Weapon/Boltpistol - Squad: 5 Plasmaguns + Rhino w/Dozerblade/Combiplasma/dirge caster(might remove caster)

Warptalons:(9) /Mark of Khorne/

Landraider: Dirge Caster/Extra armor/Dozer Blade

Helcult formation:

Helbrute - Standard

Cultists(35) Autopistols/1 shotgun

Cultists(10) Autoguns/1 shotgun

(Addendum: I am using the Black Legion Dataslate, meaning all Marines have Veterans of the Long War and Chosen can be purchased as troops.)

I place the vindicator in front of the landraider to prevent a turn 1 catastrophe from most conventional weaponry (lascannons,lances,Guass) Then drive the raider flat out until it is close enough to unload the marines into a vital part of their force, usually covering themselves in a nearby infantry blob or simply multi-charging enemy tanks. The cultists are a distraction that makes my opponent divert shots on to them, they tend to lose focus that they are standing still. The warptalons run behind the raider and act as a second assault group, they usually die to more firepower, but it gives the chosen time to keep killing. In all honesty I feel our codex's strength is that we can field multiple dangerous units and force our opponent to make tough decisions and sacrifice parts of their army, or die. But the biggest advantage? Surprise. I don't know anyone else that plays like this. (Except Fasha the Dog and his Unbound Blood Thirster list )

The only fluff issue I see is the MoS lord running with the MoK Talons. That is a matter of prudence, the MoS lord and his screaming entourage is a nightmare for spacemarines. I will consider making him MoK in the future. I could use the cheap excuse that it's because they are Black Legion and yadda-yadda-yadda-undivided, but that would be a lie.

[the jeske]

how do you deal with non static anti tank, Like drop pods or bikers with gravs?

 

The only fluff issue I see is the MoS lord running with the MoK Talons.

Unfluffy or not , it is first of all illegal as units with different marks ,can't join up , unless they have an errata to support it.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I don't think it's a list that would do well against a non static anti tank list, but then again it doesn't seem like an all comers list since there just are going to be unit the chosen will have a hard time against. However I think it's a very cool concept and worth playing.