Prot's Az-Zeke Bomb or Az-Bomb Dark Angel Tactica for 7th Ed

[Prot]

Howdy,

 

I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to be playing this so in closing it out I wanted to leave it here as a reference, mostly to help new people.

 

First off what is Az-Zeke Bomb (Or Az-Bomb for those who don't want to use Ezekeil.)?

+++ This is a list that uses Azrael in a pod with a combination of 1) Ezekeil and 2) Veterans OR 2) Tacticals.

 

What do I need to play this list?

+++ This is the best part... mostly the Dark Vengeance 2 player set! Fill in the gaps as you grow your army but this lets you proxy the two HQ characters for Ezekeil and Azrael which is pretty convenient since I actually prefer them to the actual models, but they are accurate depictions. Drop Pods will be mandatory as you will see why.

 

Who should play this list?

+++ I'm glad you asked. It's not an easy list because it is a little low on model count, however, it is ultimately flexible. (It has some weaknesses obviously but is a very strong all comers strategy.)

 

+++ Keep in mind this is meant for Maelstrom play which is very popular right now.

 

What is the primary strategy of this list?

+++ That's a tough one to answer. Essentially one thing will always happen: Azreal, Ezekeil, their squad (be it Vets or Tacticals) and their Pod will ALWAYS drop into the middle of hell, and sit right on a key objective that can always be reinforced (By a secondary Pod, Bikes, Termies, or what not).

 

+++ Always use Azrael's ability to Chose the Dark Angel warlord trait that lets you give his squad Feel No Pain when within 3" of an objective.

 

+++ Azrael's squad has more punch as Veterans (I now arm with 2 melta, and a Power Axe) and in smaller games, or any game with a higher desire to attain "super scoring" units, or Objective Secured units, use Tacticals. (Please reference the main rulebook for the powerful rule that is Objective Secured.) And remember, an Objective Secured squad, also conveys that rule to their transport (in this case a Pod).

 

+++ The Argument for/against Ezekeil. This is another tough one. I go both ways on it. Ezekeil is our only access to a 3 Warp Charge Libby, but with only one Psyker, be prepared to fail a lot on casting abilities. It will happen against lists that are tailored to tap into the Warp often. BUT understand that dedicating a LOT of your Warp Charge dice to one key power a turn is conservative, but I find quite successful (don't get greedy).

 

     +++ If anything at all has you on the fence about using him, take this advice to ponder; At under 1500 pts, this list works quite well without him. At 1500 it's your call. Above 1500, at the very least, look at Ezekeil as Psyker protection for the mighty Az-Bomb squad.  He will improve your Deny the Witch roll by 1, if not 2, due to his Warp Charge level of 3.

 

What about the rest of the list?

+++ You will see that the whole list works in unison to support the 'bomb'. Once the Drop Pod hits the ground and Azrael and friends are out, it's up to you to make sure you can 1) use bikes to grab things, use Jink to make them annoying to kill. 2) Enforce from a distance as your opponent WILL try to gut Azrael with units like: ranged Termie Fire Power, Black Knights, and even Tacticals provide a very good 1-2 punch.

 

What is considered essential in the list?

+++ For me Az-Zeke Bomb is a core based on the primary unit (A pod, Azrael, Ezekeil, Vets/Tacticals). The Secondary units I personally believe are essential are: One Pod with Tactical Squad (this is 2 super scoring units.) Also Black Knights are the best reinforcers/harrassment unit. One squad of Terminators (Super Scoring if you use Deathwing), and finally at least one squad of Bikes (also super scoring, and 'combat squad' rule applies to ours.)

 

Everything else is up to you.

 

What additional advice would you offer the new player wanting to try out Az-Zeke Bomb?

+++ The best I can do is lend you real experience through my playtesting, and games in 7th edition.

 

I am going to link 3 Batreps I put up here, but first a bit of history: I traditionally played Ravenwing, and tried Deathwing. But as 7th released and everyone was playing Maelstrom I saw a chance to try something very new... out of my comfort zone.

 

So this started as an experiment! Eventually the list grew tighter and tighter. I documented every step of the way, and I found which units were wild cards, and which had to stay. I figured out how to play against different styles of opponents and eventually I reached double digits playing this list before I couldn't stay under the radar with those 'crappy' Dark Angels.

 

So enough babble, here are the batreps:

 

Batrep 1: Az-Zeke Bomb vs Nids

 

Batrep 2: Az-Zeke Bomb vs Orks

 

Batrep 3: Az-Zeke Bomb vs Astra Militarum

 

I really hope this can help the newer player get to use his/her Dark Vengeance box set. Also it is a good introduction to a few different wings. Here you can see how they move, feel and interact. Perhaps helping you decide what to specialize on in the future (if you want to)!

 

The key is really in the batreps. There are 3 different lists based on the same ideals. The devil is in those details. Different units help support differently, and these are 3 fairy different opponents so there is enough information there to hopefully get you on your way.

[RayJ]

I'm doing g something similar, but based on darkangeldentist's recommendations I have Azrael and Ezekiel attached to a black knights squad. That unit is amazing, and it plays very strangely but wrecks face.

[Prot]

The thing about the Drop variant is it's a cheap delivery system and there's nothing stopping a player from using 'hit and run' with Azrael joining the Black Knights when it's prudent. (Black Knights are in every list I made, as stated above in the tactica)

 

In the meantime, this squad sitting on an objective is a rock (pun intended)... I find once you start adding Landraider(s), you lose to many bodies, and in a war of attrition it's very hard to keep up with.

 

Honestly the success rate of the list was well beyond what I hoped for but at this point, I would personally not move away from the Pod(s) as a primary deilvery for the main units.

[HandofAnubis]

Have you played with this with the new dex at all? Maybe with a Lionsblade Demi company list? inflitrating scouts and the Az'Eke bomb would be pretty nice. camo cloaks all around and fnp on the bomb unit?

[Prot]

Well I never did explain this, but here's what happened....

 

I started pushing this list pretty hard, making these posts, and playtesting a lot. No one (that I know of) was doing this....

 

Right as the new codex comes out a guy (I never met before) starts talking about this Az-Eke bomb list he read about and actually took a tournament using it.

 

"Oh really?" I reply. He starts telling me how it works, the units to use with it, and how it's severely underestimated, and he kicked butt with it.

 

So at that point I retired it. The cat's out of the bag. When strangers start approaching you to tell you how to play your list, it's a path that's well travelled now so I retired it.

 

I realize people are hot on other things right now, but the way the banner works, it's still perfectly valid. It's just there's so many other low hanging fruit in the codex the build is kind of in the shadows for right now.

[Cactus]

That's hilarious! Do you know if he read about it here? If so, did you reveal your alter ego?

[Caldria]

Hah, pity. Your Az Bomb thread was what gave me hope in putting Azrael on the board again and converting him up. (Old model is poo)

[HandofAnubis]

That's hilarious! Do you know if he read about it here? If so, did you reveal your alter ego?

I was going to ask this as well haha. It would be interesting to know if he found it here and did not realize he was telling you how to play it. Too bad, I think it would work well with the new dex and the buff to Scouts.

[Master Sindiferous]

Prot, I tried this a few times playing 6th edition rules and loved it.  Still trying to find my niche in 7th without buying RW flyers.  MY army is DW heavy so just building out RW models now.  Good luck with new endeavors and thanks for helping a DV purchaser be relevant early on without heavy cash pay out.

[Prot]

That's hilarious! Do you know if he read about it here? If so, did you reveal your alter ego?

I was going to ask this as well haha. It would be interesting to know if he found it here and did not realize he was telling you how to play it. Too bad, I think it would work well with the new dex and the buff to Scouts.

Honestly, no I did not. I kept it my secret. lol

In theory he could have got the list/idea from a few sources I suppose. It was just very ironic to have someone tell me emphatically how to win a tournament with a non-standard core like this.... he was literally preaching to the choir. But I listened and nodded, and he was adamant that it was something I could try too.

[Son_of_D0rn]

Apologies for bring this back from the dead but I was wondering how you would run this with the Lions Blade detachment? I love the look and play style of the list and would love to see your thoughts on this if possible?

[Prot]

It's one of my biggest 40k regrets of the last year. I sold my dark Angels.

 

The combo worked extremely well but I never did try it with Lion's Blade. I was thinking of squeezing in a combo with those vets using Grav and that cool relentless banner in a pod. On paper it felt like it could make a real mess on quite a few match ups.

 

But again I never got to try it.

[jbaeza94]

This inspired me. I've had an idea for a nice deathstar unit using gunslinger vets, this may have completed what i was looking for

Here's my unit

Azrael

Ezekiel

Apothecary

Dark angels banner for +1 attack

3 plasma pistols

Company champion (cost same as a power weapon so thought this would be a better upgrade)

 

I was also thinking furious charge for the unit via warlord traits.

 

Supporting this would be 3combi melta/melta gun squads and a tl heavy flamer/heavy flamer pw dread. Also company master with relic blade and combo weapon in one of the pods

AZ and zeke would be in the front to tank with their 2+/4++ fnp. Zeke could hopefully nerf a squad before the charge. Plasma and bolt pistols soften up target hopefully. +3 attacks on the charge for everyone, putting vets at 5 and as at 7, also +1 strength. Not too bad i think.

20a s5 ap- for vets

5a s6 ap3 for champion

5a s5 ap3 for zeke (6a if book affects him too)

7a s7 ap3 for az.

 

What do you think of this azeke bomb?

[twopounder]

I wouldn't call it deathstar. FNP is 5+ and power swords just aren't what they used to be. Honestly, I think a much better arrangement would be:

 

Command squad w/ grav guns x5

Standard of Devastation

Azrael

Ezekial

 

If you want a close combat deathstar (that isn't a knight)

10 veterans

bolt pistol/Power maul for each

Ezekial

Azrael

Chaplain

 

It's not really worth the points though. You're better off just using deathwing knights for tanking or black knights for firepower/speed. Both can be very effective with a chaplain.

[Son_of_D0rn]

Right so have come up with a rough outline of what I think I'd like to try and build towards

 

1850 Points: Lions Blade & LinCon

 

Company Master, Auspex, Artificer Armour, Mace of Redemption, Shroud of Heroes

Command Squad, 5 Grav Gun, Sacred Standard, Drop Pod

Dreadnought, Missile Launcher, TL Lascannon

5 Tacticals, Plasma, Combi Plasma, Rhino

5 Tacticals, Plasma, Combi Plasma, Rhino

5 Tacticals, Lascannon, Rhino

5 Assault Marines, 2 Flamer, Jump Packs

5 Devastators, 2 Grav Cannon & Amp, Cherub, Rhino

 

Azreal

 

5 Scouts, Missile Launcher, Combi Plasma

5 Scouts, Missile Launcher, Combi Plasma

 

Ezekiel

Librarian, ML2, Stave

Librarian, ML1, Sword

[twopounder]

Right so have come up with a rough outline of what I think I'd like to try and build towards

 

1850 Points: Lions Blade & LinCon

 

Company Master, Auspex, Artificer Armour, Mace of Redemption, Shroud of Heroes

Command Squad, 5 Grav Gun, Sacred Standard, Drop Pod

Dreadnought, Missile Launcher, TL Lascannon

5 Tacticals, Plasma, Combi Plasma, Rhino

5 Tacticals, Plasma, Combi Plasma, Rhino

5 Tacticals, Lascannon, Rhino

5 Assault Marines, 2 Flamer, Jump Packs

5 Devastators, 2 Grav Cannon & Amp, Cherub, Rhino

 

Azreal

 

5 Scouts, Missile Launcher, Combi Plasma

5 Scouts, Missile Launcher, Combi Plasma

 

Ezekiel

Librarian, ML2, Stave

Librarian, ML1, Sword

 

For the cost of the combi-plasma, why not just give them plasma?

 

Also, if I remember correctly, shroud of heroes requires the character to be alone for full effect. It's a waste of points if he's in a unit, so you may want to give him something like the lion's roar or foe smiter.

[Pigshead]

The shroud gives feel no pain too.

[twopounder]

The shroud gives feel no pain too.

Yeah, but that's kind of pointless when you're losing the other half of the effect you're paying for and the weapon loadout is counter to the supreme fire discipline you're trying to maximize.

[Pigshead]

Yeah but the shroud is what, 10 points? Cheap for FnP if you ask me. And correct me if I'm wrong but he can't take the mace and one of the shooty relics together, can he?

[twopounder]

Yeah but the shroud is what, 10 points? Cheap for FnP if you ask me. And correct me if I'm wrong but he can't take the mace and one of the shooty relics together, can he?

 

 

 

Yeah, but that's kind of pointless when you're losing the other half of the effect you're paying for and the weapon loadout is counter to the supreme fire discipline you're trying to maximize.

 

Already covered that ;)

 

And a 5+ fnp isn't all that great when you already have a 2+/4++. It becomes a 10 point hail mary that is better used on a meltagun.

[Harleqvin]

yeah. You can only take one relic weapon on a single HQ. But that's weapons. Shroud isn't a weapon. Same with Eye.

Also why not give the dreadnought a Droppod too? It's free and it will be another super scoring unit.

[Pigshead]

 

 

Yeah but the shroud is what, 10 points? Cheap for FnP if you ask me. And correct me if I'm wrong but he can't take the mace and one of the shooty relics together, can he?

Yeah, but that's kind of pointless when you're losing the other half of the effect you're paying for and the weapon loadout is counter to the supreme fire discipline you're trying to maximize.

Already covered that ;)

 

And a 5+ fnp isn't all that great when you already have a 2+/4++. It becomes a 10 point hail mary that is better used on a meltagun.

I totally get your point. Personally though, I would always give my HQ something to cause havoc in close combat over a ranged weapon. It's maybe just my local meta, but something nasty always hunts my HQ's. I've also made a habit of splitting my company master with the mace from his command squad and solo charging units from time to time. And the feel no pain has helped then.

 

Of course I realise this is incredibly reckless, but it's also pretty awesome when it works.

 

Disclaimer: it doesn't always work.

[twopounder]

Yeah but the shroud is what, 10 points? Cheap for FnP if you ask me. And correct me if I'm wrong but he can't take the mace and one of the shooty relics together, can he?

Yeah, but that's kind of pointless when you're losing the other half of the effect you're paying for and the weapon loadout is counter to the supreme fire discipline you're trying to maximize.

Already covered that

And a 5+ fnp isn't all that great when you already have a 2+/4++. It becomes a 10 point hail mary that is better used on a meltagun.

I totally get your point. Personally though, I would always give my HQ something to cause havoc in close combat over a ranged weapon. It's maybe just my local meta, but something nasty always hunts my HQ's. I've also made a habit of splitting my company master with the mace from his command squad and solo charging units from time to time. And the feel no pain has helped then.

Of course I realise this is incredibly reckless, but it's also pretty awesome when it works.

Disclaimer: it doesn't always work.

If I roll a high cost deathstar, it's 10ish deathwing knights, interrogator-chaplain in terminator armor, belial with th/ss, and librarian in terminator armor. Maybe even throw in a company master with terminator armor, storm shield, and mace of chaos smiting. They deepstrike without scattering, the unit is T5, and the chaplain/librarian can protect and augment the squad's abilities.

Of course, this is massively expensive and I tend not to.