Damnation of Pythos...initial thoughts

[Half Goat]

I finished reading DoP last night.  I was dreading reading anything more by Annandale, after trying to read Death of Antagonis, but this book really surprised me. It was the first book that I could connect with the Iron Tenth, and get a real insight into their psyche without it being too cliche. The first third of the book was incredibly gripping and had me engaged, but ended up going downhill from there. What really spoiled it for me was there being no real character development for the Raven Guard or Salamanders, almost as if they were thrown in as an oversight. Despite this, the writing of the daemonic was well handled, and I have a lot of respect for this book not being about heroes and a happy ending. The conclusion of the story and the main characters is what saves the last two thirds from being a drag.

P.S - why the feth was there dinosaurs?

[Emperor's Furor]

I finished reading DoP last night.  I was dreading reading anything more by Annandale, after trying to read Death of Antagonis, but this book really surprised me. It was the first book that I could connect with the Iron Tenth, and get a real insight into their psyche without it being too cliche. The first third of the book was incredibly gripping and had me engaged, but ended up going downhill from there. What really spoiled it for me was there being no real character development for the Raven Guard or Salamanders, almost as if they were thrown in as an oversight. Despite this, the writing of the daemonic was well handled, and I have a lot of respect for this book not being about heroes and a happy ending. The conclusion of the story and the main characters is what saves the last two thirds from being a drag.

 

P.S - why the feth was there dinosaurs?

 

They were there because the whole planet was designed to cause bloodshed on such an apocalyptic scale that it wouldhelp with summoning the daemons.

 

 

On the whole I struggled to stay gripped to the story, it really did feel like a 40k story within a 30k context and it was nice beginning to see the slide into that darkness, but on the whole the story could easily be summed up with a single sentence.

 

 

It is the story of how a daemonic legion is summoned by manipulating those who don't know about or don't believe in daemons

 

[fluxdeluxe]

 

I finished reading DoP last night.  I was dreading reading anything more by Annandale, after trying to read Death of Antagonis, but this book really surprised me. It was the first book that I could connect with the Iron Tenth, and get a real insight into their psyche without it being too cliche. The first third of the book was incredibly gripping and had me engaged, but ended up going downhill from there. What really spoiled it for me was there being no real character development for the Raven Guard or Salamanders, almost as if they were thrown in as an oversight. Despite this, the writing of the daemonic was well handled, and I have a lot of respect for this book not being about heroes and a happy ending. The conclusion of the story and the main characters is what saves the last two thirds from being a drag.

P.S - why the feth was there dinosaurs?

 

They were there because the whole planet was designed to cause bloodshed on such an apocalyptic scale that it wouldhelp with summoning the daemons.

 

 

On the whole I struggled to stay gripped to the story, it really did feel like a 40k story within a 30k context and it was nice beginning to see the slide into that darkness, but on the whole the story could easily be summed up with a single sentence.

 

 

It is the story of how a daemonic legion is summoned by manipulating those who don't know about or don't believe in daemons

Inception was about a guy who hacked people's dreams but who was trapped in a dream himself

 

American psycho was about a a yuppie who loved to kill prostitutes but it ended up being a massive fantasy

 

American history x was about a racist dude who realised he wasn't a racist then his brother who never really was a racist but was hero worshiping his brother died

 

Dantes inferno was about a guy who traversed the nine hells

 

I could go on don't attempt to denigrate the story needlessly.

[Trank]

Im not far in the reading but till now I thinks it's very well written. Not being a story in the middle of HH big and already know events it gives the author some time to do something different.

Loved one thing, very simple and yet new to me:

The idea that if the 3 Legions attacked Horus when Ferrus Manus did, they would have a chance.

[Emperor's Furor]

 

 

I finished reading DoP last night.  I was dreading reading anything more by Annandale, after trying to read Death of Antagonis, but this book really surprised me. It was the first book that I could connect with the Iron Tenth, and get a real insight into their psyche without it being too cliche. The first third of the book was incredibly gripping and had me engaged, but ended up going downhill from there. What really spoiled it for me was there being no real character development for the Raven Guard or Salamanders, almost as if they were thrown in as an oversight. Despite this, the writing of the daemonic was well handled, and I have a lot of respect for this book not being about heroes and a happy ending. The conclusion of the story and the main characters is what saves the last two thirds from being a drag.

P.S - why the feth was there dinosaurs?

They were there because the whole planet was designed to cause bloodshed on such an apocalyptic scale that it wouldhelp with summoning the daemons.

 

 

On the whole I struggled to stay gripped to the story, it really did feel like a 40k story within a 30k context and it was nice beginning to see the slide into that darkness, but on the whole the story could easily be summed up with a single sentence.

 

 

It is the story of how a daemonic legion is summoned by manipulating those who don't know about or don't believe in daemons

Inception was about a guy who hacked people's dreams but who was trapped in a dream himself

 

American psycho was about a a yuppie who loved to kill prostitutes but it ended up being a massive fantasy

 

American history x was about a racist dude who realised he wasn't a racist then his brother who never really was a racist but was hero worshiping his brother died

 

Dantes inferno was about a guy who traversed the nine hells

 

I could go on don't attempt to denigrate the story needlessly.

 

Sorry I didn't mean to denigrate it, perhaps I should of phrased it better, I didn't particularly want to go into detail though and just wanted to give a one sentence summary of the general plot focus.

 

It was nicely written I agree but I always find stories where they try to explain the warp a bit hard to digest, I like to imagine stuff and trying to get my head around details that even the characters in the story struggle to comprehend is difficult and it wasn't helped that I had a headache while reading it either. The concept was good, the ending was tragic and it showed how something so important could be so easily disregarded in the universe. It wasn't a book I was gripped to though.

[sitnam]

The idea that if the 3 Legions attacked Horus when Ferrus Manus did, they would have a chance.

 

I agree. Though is that Iron Hands trying to blame others for their fathers failure, or was that the reality of Istvaan? Would make a neat alternate heresy where the Dropsite Massacre wasnt such a massacre

[Molokai]

 

 

I finished reading DoP last night. I was dreading reading anything more by Annandale, after trying to read Death of Antagonis, but this book really surprised me. It was the first book that I could connect with the Iron Tenth, and get a real insight into their psyche without it being too cliche. The first third of the book was incredibly gripping and had me engaged, but ended up going downhill from there. What really spoiled it for me was there being no real character development for the Raven Guard or Salamanders, almost as if they were thrown in as an oversight. Despite this, the writing of the daemonic was well handled, and I have a lot of respect for this book not being about heroes and a happy ending. The conclusion of the story and the main characters is what saves the last two thirds from being a drag.

P.S - why the feth was there dinosaurs?

 

They were there because the whole planet was designed to cause bloodshed on such an apocalyptic scale that it wouldhelp with summoning the daemons.

 

 

On the whole I struggled to stay gripped to the story, it really did feel like a 40k story within a 30k context and it was nice beginning to see the slide into that darkness, but on the whole the story could easily be summed up with a single sentence.

 

 

It is the story of how a daemonic legion is summoned by manipulating those who don't know about or don't believe in daemons

Inception was about a guy who hacked people's dreams but who was trapped in a dream himself

 

American psycho was about a a yuppie who loved to kill prostitutes but it ended up being a massive fantasy

 

American history x was about a racist dude who realised he wasn't a racist then his brother who never really was a racist but was hero worshiping his brother died

 

Dantes inferno was about a guy who traversed the nine hells

 

I could go on don't attempt to denigrate the story needlessly.

 

American psycho wasnt a massive fantasy. Read the book. Youre obviously basing your view on the film, which didnt really capture the main themes of the work.

[Saa]

 

 

 

I finished reading DoP last night. I was dreading reading anything more by Annandale, after trying to read Death of Antagonis, but this book really surprised me. It was the first book that I could connect with the Iron Tenth, and get a real insight into their psyche without it being too cliche. The first third of the book was incredibly gripping and had me engaged, but ended up going downhill from there. What really spoiled it for me was there being no real character development for the Raven Guard or Salamanders, almost as if they were thrown in as an oversight. Despite this, the writing of the daemonic was well handled, and I have a lot of respect for this book not being about heroes and a happy ending. The conclusion of the story and the main characters is what saves the last two thirds from being a drag.

P.S - why the feth was there dinosaurs?

They were there because the whole planet was designed to cause bloodshed on such an apocalyptic scale that it wouldhelp with summoning the daemons.

 

On the whole I struggled to stay gripped to the story, it really did feel like a 40k story within a 30k context and it was nice beginning to see the slide into that darkness, but on the whole the story could easily be summed up with a single sentence.

 

It is the story of how a daemonic legion is summoned by manipulating those who don't know about or don't believe in daemons

Inception was about a guy who hacked people's dreams but who was trapped in a dream himself

American psycho was about a a yuppie who loved to kill prostitutes but it ended up being a massive fantasy

American history x was about a racist dude who realised he wasn't a racist then his brother who never really was a racist but was hero worshiping his brother died

Dantes inferno was about a guy who traversed the nine hells

I could go on don't attempt to denigrate the story needlessly.

American psycho wasnt a massive fantasy. Read the book. Youre obviously basing your view on the film, which didnt really capture the main themes of the work.

As someone who read the book for a second time immediately after turning the last page, the 'was it actually real?' Element is still there. That's part of the beauty of American Psycho.....was it real or the psychosis of a madman.

 

*cough* anyway OT....my expectations of DoP have been raised after reading subsequent posts here...... I'm hoping 'DoP' isn't 'derp'

[Molokai]

Well, that's very different from a definte "massive fantasy" . Is it not.

 

It seems I interpreted it differently from Fluxdeluxe. It seems you're still undecided.

 

Cough

[Kol Saresk]

......... And moving on back to the topic from personal interpretations of a book that isn't even related to 40K........

[Molokai]

Yeah apologies guys, nothing to see here....

[Marshal Rohr]

The whole 'fury of cold rationality' is one of those phrases that sound cool, like 'it's always darkest before dawn', but make no sense in the context of what rationality actually is.

[Uprising]

Is there any possibility of getting a review of the ecosystem and food chain of the planet?  I just want to know more about the dinosaurs, please. 

[Candleshoes]

The whole planet, including plant life is carnivorous. A Raven Guard observes how unnatural it is.

 

I believe it is mentioned that the world itself was engineered like that in order to create the maximum amount of bloodshed.

 

The Dino's vary in sizes, from bison/buffalo ranged to 50 meter Titan sized colossuses. Bipedal, 4 legged, winged etc.

[Praetor of Calth]

Just finished reading this, while it was really well written this shouldn't have been one of the headline books in the series as it didn't advance the plot in anyway. Having said that, ironically, despite my active distaste for them, this is the sort of story I wouldn't mind being released as a novella as it helps to make the series feel much broader and grander in scale.

 

Hopefully the rumoured Shattered Legions anthology will be released one day as the varying depictions of the Shattered Legions continue to be excellent such as in DoP.  Although I'm really suprised none of the authors has taken the oppurunity to compare them to the scattered 1k son fleets, both have been shattered and potentially lost their primarch afterall.

[mc warhammer]

never seen so many people proclaim a book is well written and then complain about it

[Kol Saresk]

I think its that so many people are bent about "advancing the timeline" and "sticking to the main part of the Heresy" they just aren't sure how to treat the Heresy since it is an event and a setting, versus 40K which is just a setting.

 

And so when something seems "superflous" it gets that "BL made me waste money buying it" vibe even though BL said right of the bat, this does nothing for the timeline. Mark of Calth did nothing for the timeline except for maybe one or two stories.

 

So it falls into the realm of what we expect versus what we got and as always, we expect more.

[Perrin]

I think its that so many people are bent about "advancing the timeline" and "sticking to the main part of the Heresy" they just aren't sure how to treat the Heresy since it is an event and a setting, versus 40K which is just a setting.

 

And so when something seems "superflous" it gets that "BL made me waste money buying it" vibe even though BL said right of the bat, this does nothing for the timeline. Mark of Calth did nothing for the timeline except for maybe one or two stories.

 

So it falls into the realm of what we expect versus what we got and as always, we expect more.

 

Are we wrong for expecting more?

 

Mark of Calth was expanding on the events of Know No Fear and giving depth to a battle which was supposed to be one of the biggest in the Heresy but somehow managed to get over and done with within a single novel.

 

It's also slightly different because we expect that from short story anthologies. They're usually used to either explore the events of previous full stories or to set up a future story, usually by establishing the background and personality of a character.

 

Damnation of Pythos is more of a tie in to 40k Pandorax than the actual Heresy. We aren't going to see the characters again, and their actions aren't going to have any effect on the future of the Heresy. Obviously the state of Pythos will, but that was already established lore.

 

It feels more like a Space Marine Battles story, rather than an entry in a series.

[Clone]

Maybe the book should be viewed not in advancing the storyline but showing the direction the galaxy is headed. As in chaos and daemons being unleashed and the imperium beginning to realise the that the Imperial Truth isn't much of a truth after all.

 

I really enjoyed reading about rational followers of the Imperial Truth struggling to cope with the fact that daemons and gods are real.

 

Besides what's wrong with this book being a tie in to a 40k novel? Aren't all the books a tie in ultimately?

[Praetor of Calth]

never seen so many people proclaim a book is well written and then complain about it

Well for me personally, thats because on a technical  level I can't fault the book. What I can and do find fault with is the manner and format  it has been released. The Space Marine Battles book analogy is quite apt, but the book has more in common with stories like BoTA and Nemesis than those stories. It is a story that fits in with the setting of 30k, but not the story as Kol mentioned.

 

These sort of stories as I mentioned  earlier should be what the novellas are. Aurelian, BotS, Plight of the RG and Tallarn are iconic moments in the series that should be mainstream titles not side reading. I'm all for new fluff, but the mainstream titles should be Imp. Secundus style fluff. 

 

Fortunatley,by the looks of their latest novella BL are beginning to take this approach. Self contained stories with new characters which compliment, not drive, the main story and it's pivotal characters.

[Conn Eremon]

These sort of stories as I mentioned earlier should be what the novellas are.

In your opinion. In mine, nopenopenopenope.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

I think its that so many people are bent about "advancing the timeline" and "sticking to the main part of the Heresy" they just aren't sure how to treat the Heresy since it is an event and a setting, versus 40K which is just a setting.

 

And so when something seems "superflous" it gets that "BL made me waste money buying it" vibe even though BL said right of the bat, this does nothing for the timeline. Mark of Calth did nothing for the timeline except for maybe one or two stories.

 

So it falls into the realm of what we expect versus what we got and as always, we expect more.

Are we wrong for expecting more?

 

Mark of Calth was expanding on the events of Know No Fear and giving depth to a battle which was supposed to be one of the biggest in the Heresy but somehow managed to get over and done with within a single novel.

 

It's also slightly different because we expect that from short story anthologies. They're usually used to either explore the events of previous full stories or to set up a future story, usually by establishing the background and personality of a character.

 

Damnation of Pythos is more of a tie in to 40k Pandorax than the actual Heresy. We aren't going to see the characters again, and their actions aren't going to have any effect on the future of the Heresy. Obviously the state of Pythos will, but that was already established lore.

 

It feels more like a Space Marine Battles story, rather than an entry in a series.

Are we wrong for expecting more? I'd say situational.

 

When we get to the point that a book is bad not because it was bad, but because it simply did not meet our expectations, I'd say we're wrong.

 

We are not the authors. Our expectations are not always their intent. I know of very few people that Know No Fear actually reached the expectation level of. I ain't one of them. It didn't meet my expectation. Instead it went a different route and blew my expectation out of the water.

 

Soul Hunter did not meet my expectation. I expected to read more of Zso Sahaal. Instead I read about a tragic anti-hero named Uzas.

[Conn Eremon]

Soul Hunter did not meet my expectation. I expected to read more of Zso Sahaal. Instead I read about a tragic anti-hero named Uzas.

AD-B made me care about a Daemon to the point that I felt bad when the host retook control.

 

Failing to match expectations doesn't even begin to cover it, but it is definitely a prime example of how that, on its own, does not and should not mean anything bad about the book.

[Perrin]

 

 

I think its that so many people are bent about "advancing the timeline" and "sticking to the main part of the Heresy" they just aren't sure how to treat the Heresy since it is an event and a setting, versus 40K which is just a setting.

 

And so when something seems "superflous" it gets that "BL made me waste money buying it" vibe even though BL said right of the bat, this does nothing for the timeline. Mark of Calth did nothing for the timeline except for maybe one or two stories.

 

So it falls into the realm of what we expect versus what we got and as always, we expect more.

Are we wrong for expecting more?

 

Mark of Calth was expanding on the events of Know No Fear and giving depth to a battle which was supposed to be one of the biggest in the Heresy but somehow managed to get over and done with within a single novel.

 

It's also slightly different because we expect that from short story anthologies. They're usually used to either explore the events of previous full stories or to set up a future story, usually by establishing the background and personality of a character.

 

Damnation of Pythos is more of a tie in to 40k Pandorax than the actual Heresy. We aren't going to see the characters again, and their actions aren't going to have any effect on the future of the Heresy. Obviously the state of Pythos will, but that was already established lore.

 

It feels more like a Space Marine Battles story, rather than an entry in a series.

Are we wrong for expecting more? I'd say situational.

 

When we get to the point that a book is bad not because it was bad, but because it simply did not meet our expectations, I'd say we're wrong.

 

We are not the authors. Our expectations are not always their intent. I know of very few people that Know No Fear actually reached the expectation level of. I ain't one of them. It didn't meet my expectation. Instead it went a different route and blew my expectation out of the water.

 

Soul Hunter did not meet my expectation. I expected to read more of Zso Sahaal. Instead I read about a tragic anti-hero named Uzas.

 

 

To clarify, I'm not saying the book is bad. I haven't read it yet, but going by the opinions of posters and reviewers who I know from experience know what they're talking about it's a great book. No one has complained about the plot or the pacing or the prose or anything, which on these forums (and especially Warseer) is pretty rare.

 

What I am saying though, is that it's disappointing that this book doesn't move the plot forward in anyway, shape or form. It doesn't connect with other stories or plot lines, expand on characters that will show up in other books or have any lasting effects afterwards that we didn't already know of.

 

Nemesis is an example someone above gave, but even that had reaches beyond itself. The assassination attempt was mentioned in Vengeful Spirit, we saw how the higher echelons of the Council of Terra work, and we were given a bit more about the personalities of Malcador, Dorn and Valdor. Not to mention that iirc a large background character was killed off.

 

This novel could have never happened, and it would take absolutely nothing away from the series.

 

I enjoy the Horus Heresy, I read more HH books than I do 40k ones, but I do want it to eventually reach its end and books like this make me worry that Black Library want it to be a setting purely for commercial gain.

[Marshal Rohr]

You'd think at this point, all of the 'super weapons that will stop Horus/Kill the Emperor' would've been found.