depthcharge12 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 You'd think at this point, all of the 'super weapons that will stop Horus/Kill the Emperor' would've been found. Every time I see things like that pop up in the novel I feel like Sideshow Bob walking in the field of rakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 The milk machine at it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrafficCustodes Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 In response to the claims this book didn't need to happen in HH and will make no further impact on the story, there is one fairly major thingie at the end of the book which may be of further relevance. The wreckage of the Veritas Ferrum is being reshaped into a daemonic space vessel which, it's heavily implied, the daemon army of Pythos will be using for galactic travel shenanigans. Could we be seeing more of Madail and his buddies later in the HH storyline? I'd say the chances are good. I'm not a great Iron Hands cheerleader, but I thought this was the best portrayal of them since 'Riven', so I'm surprised more Hands fans aren't coming out in support for this one. I was really impressed with this book, frankly I was dreading it as (going by the cover art and the story summary) I feared it was going to be dumb monster fights with cardboard cut-out characters, and as I hadn't read a David Annandale novel before I didn't know if he could carry my interest. However, now that I've finished it I can say my doubts were not at all justified and I'd quite like to read those Yarrick books DA wrote. If they add him to the HH team as a regular writer I'm happy with that. I'm almost tempted to read 'Pandorax' again just to compare the description of Pythos in 40K with the 30K one. Haha, no, I'm not. That will not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I get the purpose behind it and what it means. I guess I'm one of those who just wants the main story to progress more, been reading them since the start and want more meatier stories, that have a bigger impact on the narrative. For the most part VS was the latest in that, however it had a lot of additional stuff to bulk the story out as well and not all of it was entirely needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleshoes Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 It's interesting, as I remember back in May of 2011 when Age of Darkness the HH Anthology came out (solid stories all around in that one, Savage Weapons, The Iron Within, Little Horus), ADB while answering a question here on the board said that one of the topics at the big HH meetings (again several years ago) was ensuring that all future HH stories had a focus on progressing the storyline and moving events towards Terra. This was roughly the same time he made the comment that he personally would rather have the series end sooner, rather than later. Someone with better search-fu than me could find it if needed. Where Pythos falls on that statement, I'm not sure, but it is the 30th Heresy Novel - something many of us forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 It's interesting, as I remember back in May of 2011 when Age of Darkness the HH Anthology came out (solid stories all around in that one, Savage Weapons, The Iron Within, Little Horus), ADB while answering a question here on the board said that one of the topics at the big HH meetings (again several years ago) was ensuring that all future HH stories had a focus on progressing the storyline and moving events towards Terra. This was roughly the same time he made the comment that he personally would rather have the series end sooner, rather than later. Someone with better search-fu than me could find it if needed. Where Pythos falls on that statement, I'm not sure, but it is the 30th Heresy Novel - something many of us forget. I think BL may need to be reminded of that meeting To be fair I'm not entirely sure how much input any BL employees that we as fans speak with or interact with actually have with the series? I mean creatively and narratively the authors and editors make the decisions, but wouldn't it be up to executives on how long the series is? I mean the longer it goes on the more money it makes, even if it ends up a soulless mess. I'm just guessing here by the way, I've never worked in publishing. This may be a tin-foil hat theory but I really do believe that Vengeful Spirit was pushed forward to coincide with the new Knights models and to rack up sales, even though it caused huge backlash with the portrayal of Mortarion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Angel Scout Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 I'm wondering if it would've been better to publish this before Pandorax, might view both in a different light. To me, when reading the HH and there are links/nods to the present-day 40K, it's like a sense of discovery- a moment that causes a wry smile or "so that's how...ahh I see" .... (or to some it may cause them to come on B+C and lament how "wrong it is to Change" the canon instead of recognising the expansion...surprisingly not many are Nurglites) ... but, and maybe because it doesn't have stronger-by which stronger should be viewed in the context of the recent development of the Pandorax setting, opposed to THE basis for the setting that's been THE setting for 20 odd years- links to the events that have been occurring in other recent publications. Actually, thinking about it as I compose this rambling rant, feels like it's a spin-off show from a well-loved series and you'll give it a few episodes to see how it goes cause the pilot hasn't grabbed you but you'll give it a chance cause there were little moments/glimpses that referenced the source and you want to see that it plays out successfully TrafficCustodes, and anyone else who hasn't, I recommend the Yarrick stories. Not 100% on the order they came out but, from memory and brief summaries to avoid spoilers: One is when he was just a boy, first steps on the path type story, there's one when he and Ghazghkull have a chat, think there's a couple when he's still a cadet and recent ones have had more of a continuity in terms of being with the same regiment----think I'll revisit them myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no I'm alpharius Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I enjoyed that. Well written with one minor "oh come on ... " Colonists were clearly so evil with a capital Eeeeeeeee, it spoiled things. Couldn't they have been colonists but just in the wrong place at the wrong time? Would have fitted with the rest of the story more, imo. Ending was superb. Very Raiders of the Lost Ark Good sense of impending doom and a well put together ending. Liked it and not too bothered about racing towards Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Colonists were clearly so evil with a capital Eeeeeeeee, it spoiled things. Couldn't they have been colonists but just in the wrong place at the wrong time? Would have fitted with the rest of the story more, imo. Just finished reading the book and my one major gripe with it is this too. I think this novel would've made more sense if it has been released before the Pandorax campaign but as it stands now it is still a great read. Still curious about the main enemy as I haven't read anything about him before or heard that name. Anyone have any insight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 What was the name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Madail if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I think he's new. But I ain't read DoP or Pandorax so I'm probably just lacking the necessary info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterofMankind Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I think that there is a connection between DoP and the main horus heresy lore. I was rereading Shard of Erebus, and when Erebus meets with the Davinite priestess, she tells him that the rest of the population scattered across the stars. So we might be seeing more of those wacky cultists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 A lot of people have said it's a good read and that it's really well written, but a novel this far into the series having absolutely nothing to do with the overall plotline or advancement, not even tying into one of the many minor plot threads that are already travelling through the series. Nah. Don't see the point in it really. I read this comment before I actively started reading - and this has permeated my thoughts ever since... Continuing to enjoy mind - but I wonder if this will be more of a Nemesis in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Except Nemesis has had an impact in that it has been mentioned and even used to explain certain actions later in the Heresy. For example, it is used to explain why a trap for Horus was instead sprung by Aximand. So "it has no bearing on the overall plot" is extremely relative. It could simply be we don't yet have all the pieces to connect this little black corner to the brightly colored center and thus, we don't see how it fits and interconnects. We just assume it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Oh naturally in time I'm sure it will (like Nemesis!) - although it's currently a feeling I can't shake say 150 pages in. I am very much enjoying it nonetheless, Annandale is certainly an excellent author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Just finished it and it felt like it had no resonance with the Heresy so far, could've...scratch that...should've been a SM battle series novel tying into the recent Pandorax storyline. As I mentioned, I did feel this at the beginning, but feel that this will have huge implications later down the line. And, partially, because I did really enjoy it! Annandale can certainly craft a novel - I was unsure on his ruminations at the end (I certainly didn't feel that terror he wanted to create nor will I be keeping my light on haha), but I'd like to see him write more over the coming series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Is there any possibility of getting a review of the ecosystem and food chain of the planet? I just want to know more about the dinosaurs, please. It was remarkably well crafted: the hostility, how unnatural they were physiologically (herbivore design, yet carnivorous), and ranging from smaller to the absolutely obscenely large - 'titan sized'. Jurassic Park gone mad - in a totally good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 This may be a tin-foil hat theory but I really do believe that Vengeful Spirit was pushed forward to coincide with the new Knights models and to rack up sales, even though it caused huge backlash with the portrayal of Mortarion. Oh hardly tin-hatted, self-evident. It felt shoe-horned at the start, although the weave became better with progress. That said, VS was a great addition to the series, so no complaints here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvilarium Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 As an Iron Hands fanatic, I have very mixed feelings on this book... As I have posted in the Iron Hands forum: I thought the first third of the book was pretty good, and then it took a sharp nose dive and descended into Fear to Tread territory.. From the second the Iron Hands returned to Pythos, it became the bog-standard "outnumbered Marines vs infinite Gribbly Daemons" pulp sci-fi that has caused me to give up entirely on the 41st Millenium BL Novels and concentrate on the Heresy novels. Seriously, it's like someone just took Wrath of Iron or Fear to Tread and just changed the Marines to the 111th Company of the Iron Hands. I love the first third though, it had some great insight into the mindset of various Iron Hands post-Massacre. I really loved the characterisation of the various Iron Hands and how they (and their serfs) were coping (or not coping) in the aftermath of the Massacre. Their need to exact vengeance upon the Emperor's Children was fantastic, as was their revulsion at what the Emperor's Children had devolved into. However, the whole story turned into garbage from the second the colonists showed up at Pythos. From that point onwards, I found the book an absolute chore to read, and I was glad when it was over! I really hated the picture of Atticus... He looks like C3P0 in Power Armour. If an Iron Hand was to rebuild his face with a bionic replacement, surely he'd choose something a bit more intimidating than that? http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p113/Darkbeastman/IronHands_zpsa448f6ad.png Also, I thought that the 111th Clan was supposed to be from Clan Company Ungavarr? If thats the case, why is Atticus wearing the Clan symbol for Kaargul on his Pauldron in the picture above? The book also states that all the Iron Hands on the Veritas Ferrum are from Clan Company Ungavarr, and yet the Legionary depicted on the cover of the book is wearing the Raukaan clan company symbol on his pauldron.... http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/DefaultBL/xlarge/Damnation-of-Pythos.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I think it was A D-B who said it was somethin along the lines of "artist's prerogative" in regards to the picture of Khârn in Betrayer. Basically, I don't think the author always gets a choice in what artwork goes on/into his/her book and I don't think the author always chooses(or gets a chance) to read the book before creating the artwork. As for the C-3PO face, ain't got a clue. If it was a steampunk novel, be kinda cool. But on an Iron Hand, a member of the Legion whose Primarch is called "the Gorgon"? Nope. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Yeah, that have to say that the art in this one was pretty whack. Both C3PO and I believe the first picture just looked nothing like Neil Roberts' other work (assuming it was indeed him), and was practically cartoony. Really interesting to hear it from an Iron Hands perspective - I didn't feel the characterisation (as suggested by others) was wholly inappropriate, but I can certainly see some of those criticisms, and especially if there are fluff discrepancies. That would annoy me haha. Flesh vs. Machine debate throughout was really well executed, completely agree. An appropriate dilemma - and the ironies thereof were explored in a way that really problematised both perspectives in a way that I'd not seen from many other authors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Hands Fanatic Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 As an Iron Hands fanatic, I have very mixed feelings on this book... As I have posted in the Iron Hands forum: *snigger* Interesting points there Urza. I'm hoping that with Massacre now widely available, from now on books in the HH series will have more consistency, with Massacre providing a decent framework around which to base depictions of the Xth Legion. I must admit, its a bit disappointing that the BL team are still finding it difficult to distinguish between 30k & 40k Iron Hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Yeah the first 1/3 of the book was really great. I liked the rest but it wasn't the best I've ever read. It was kinda dumb though in my opinion how they were just cutting down daemons like they were nothing. Then at the end, the main antagonist was just invincible. Some of the things they threw at him should've killed any greater daemon with the possible exception of Ang'grath or the other really "big" daemons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvilarium Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Some of the descriptive writing was really enjoyable. I really liked the desciption of how Madail 'pulled' at the fabric of reality, making it crumple and fold. Then when he let go, reality 'snapped' back into it's proper place, and the Legionaries who were on the folds as they snapped back were instantly seperated into pieces along the lines of the folds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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