Cleanse And Purify Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Y'all are nuts, I thought this was one of the best Horus heresy books so far. Yeah, it doesn't advance the main plot, or whatever, but it is far more well-written than most Black Library stuff. The characterization, particularly Galba's struggle with his Legion's philosophy, was very strong in my opinion, and it got the "weirdness" of 40k down very well with the daemonic happenings on Pythos itself. I can understand the complaints regarding its apparent "side story" nature, even if I don't agree with them myself. I am rather perplexed by the people saying they thought the writing was poor, or the characterization was off. I must be an outlier in this respect, because I though David Annandale writes far better than nearly every other Black Library author. Only ADB and John French are on the same level, and I think ADB's latest work has not been among my favorites (Talon of Horus, etc. Still good, but not on the same level as Helsreach, or Soul Hunter/Blood Reaver.) For the record, I also really enjoyed Annandale's Death of Antagonis, which from I understand is also rather universally reviled. I find his work goes beyond the usual "bolter porn" of Black Library in a way that reminds me of the best parts of ADB and French's respective work. I don't particularly care about the "main story arc" of the Heresy, since many of the books in that arc are not my favorites anyways, so I don't mind this story's marginality in that respect. In some sense, I prefer that kind of story: 40k is built on these little stories, the seemingly insignificant acts of humanity that mean everything for the participants, but in the end only serve as a drop in the larger, galactic bucket. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3912869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I genuinely thought I'd picked up a Space Marine battles book. And while you can whinge about how it's not Horus Heresy, its biggest sin is that it's boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3912914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tharand Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Y'all are nuts, I thought this was one of the best Horus heresy books so far. Yeah, it doesn't advance the main plot, or whatever, but it is far more well-written than most Black Library stuff. The characterization, particularly Galba's struggle with his Legion's philosophy, was very strong in my opinion, and it got the "weirdness" of 40k down very well with the daemonic happenings on Pythos itself. I can understand the complaints regarding its apparent "side story" nature, even if I don't agree with them myself. I am rather perplexed by the people saying they thought the writing was poor, or the characterization was off. I must be an outlier in this respect, because I though David Annandale writes far better than nearly every other Black Library author. Only ADB and John French are on the same level, and I think ADB's latest work has not been among my favorites (Talon of Horus, etc. Still good, but not on the same level as Helsreach, or Soul Hunter/Blood Reaver.) For the record, I also really enjoyed Annandale's Death of Antagonis, which from I understand is also rather universally reviled. I find his work goes beyond the usual "bolter porn" of Black Library in a way that reminds me of the best parts of ADB and French's respective work. I don't particularly care about the "main story arc" of the Heresy, since many of the books in that arc are not my favorites anyways, so I don't mind this story's marginality in that respect. In some sense, I prefer that kind of story: 40k is built on these little stories, the seemingly insignificant acts of humanity that mean everything for the participants, but in the end only serve as a drop in the larger, galactic bucket. I think based on your opinion alone I will pick up the book and give it a go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3913170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleanse And Purify Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Haha, I knew someone would agree with me! I personally couldn't put the book down. Not sure how anyone thought this was a boring book. It was the first BL book I've picked up in a while, and it restored my faith in the brand :) I will acknowledge that taste is rather subjective, and I know my taste in BL books runs counter to a lot of other people. I hated Thousand Sons (couldn't even finish it), thought Prospero Burns was genius, and I think Iskander Khayon's Dark Eldar girlfriend is lame (ADB's still the voice of our generation, however.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3913256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I was hooked too, I started reading on Monday evening and finished Tuesday evening. Couldn't put it down, mostly wanted to see if something fortunate would happen to the Legions. Nah. I had to go cuddle with my Salamander Falchion afterwards and whisper sweet nothings into its generator coils to calm down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3913264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazarak Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The book was crap. And I love nearly everything HH related. It read exactly like a 40k book with pseudo-30k characters. I'll be taking a pass on DA's work from now on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3913342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleanse And Purify Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The book was crap. And I love nearly everything HH related. It read exactly like a 40k book with pseudo-30k characters. I'll be taking a pass on DA's work from now on. What does that even mean? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3913375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It means that he won't be reading further David Annandales stories as a result of this book. It reads like a 40k era book woth pseudo-30k characters. In other words, everything that is archetypal about the 30k setting was little more than window dressing. You could have replaced every mention of legion with chapter, and slapped a Space Marine Battles on the cover and had the same story unchanged. It is long boring, and slow, with everything enjoyable about the Heresy stripped out. No primarch interaction, no superheavy tanks or titans, immense space battles... just some grumpy iron hands, a couple of irrelevant sideshow bob marines from other shattered legions to tick another checkbox that allows it to be called a heresy novel, and poorly characterised people. Even McNeil can write people with monofaceted shallow characters that are entirely plot pieces, Annandale cannot even achieve that. I essentially spent all my money on a not so secret easter egg (said egg being given away in the title) for a 40k Warzone setting. It is not as though they can even really expand on what happens as it is as neatly self contained as an SMB novel, not having any influence in the setting. I've listened to Veritas Ferrum and Incorruptible audios over christmas, one heresy, one not. Both were absolutely terrible, saved only by their voice acting. That is like saying a childs scribble is an amazing piece of artwork which rivals the masters because its subect was a beautiful woman. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3913400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleanse And Purify Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Well I suppose I just have very different taste than the rest of you guys. Indeed, I have to question we even read the same book, if you have that kind of reaction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3913405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think I might have been spoiled a bit by Betrayer (personally, my favourite novel in the series if you don't count Prince of Crows as a full novel). Then again, my top 5 novels in the series only includes 1 book not written by ADB - and that's Chris Wraight's Scars - I'm clearly biased - but then again, I also believe Black Library to be a poorly run, mismanaged collection of nerds (I include myself as a nerd, not intended as an insult) who enjoy writing stories about the game they play rather than actual authors for the most part - while there is someone attempting to leech as much money out of the customers as is possible - which I don't appreciate when I don't feel the story is worth the paper its written on, let alone the extortionate £15 or whatever it costs these days to buy it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3913489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshal seanisi Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I must agree with the majority here. DOP was in fact a novel that had no purpose in the Horus Heresy line. It could have just as easily been a short story or a novella for all the actual information it provided. I think I'm finally starting to change my opinion on how the black library is handling the Heresy. In the beginning I really felt the more the better. Take as long as you want to get to the climax of the story, I want to hear about all the side stories that got us from the inception to the final battle. Now I am of the opinion that they really need to move the story line along. Not so much as bring it to a close, but if there are books written then make sure they advance the plot! give us something that adds to the actual story and reveals new information about things that have been touched on. There is enough "filler" and subplots out there already! Start bringing some of those together and build on those. I know GW don't want to end the series as it's their proverbial cash cow and we all suck it up as fast as they can produce it, but at some point they have gone down the same path as say the show "lost". "hey we have a hit on our hands! lets drag this out as long as possible" I don't know that anyone will jump off of the HH train like everyone did on the "lost" series but in the end we all just want quality over quantity, and the boys at the Black Library are giving us quantity! Get back to the core of the story and put it in the hands of the top 4 or 5 guy's. Just my opinion, but when has GW ever listned to the opinions of the people who actually buy their products? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3914271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazarak Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I guess my biggest beef with the novel is that absolutely failed to draw me into the world of the Heresy. The 30k setting is vast and the possibilities for interesting stories is similarly vast. I don't really care if the book advances the HH plot (so to speak), I know that not every book can do that. I want intriguing, fascinating stories with twists, stories that educate me about the imperium and it's most stalwart defenders during that age. I'm looking for stories that grip me, that provide insight into the traitors and their motivations, their thoughts and feelings about the situation that they themselves helped create. Demon planet? Really? How many 40k novels do we have about demon planets? Jesus. The characters were so one dimensional that it almost defies logic. The Iron Hands were xxx, the Salamanders were xxx, and who gives an eff about the Raven Guard. Extremely disappointing. The failure of the story and it's characters is starkly illuminated when held up against previous Horus Heresy novels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3914340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleanse And Purify Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I thought the characters were anything but one-dimensional. Galba's philosophical crises over the course of the novel were rather well-done, and the Iron Hands captain was a rather nuanced portrayal of the typical "Flesh is weak" archetype. The Salamanders and Raven Guard guys were rather minor characters overall, so I'm pretty okay with them being less developed. But really, I think the Iron Hands characters and their journey through the novel is done well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3914422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't think they're one dimensional characters. I think they lack character completely. Flat. Plain. Monotonous. Grey. Vanilla. Beige. The kind of colours you look for in corduroy trousers for your granddad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3914578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleanse And Purify Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I can see that for Ptero. Since his screen time amounts to null. Galba and Atticus are pretty well-drawn characters in my opinion. Much more nuanced than the characters in, say, a McNeill book, or something on that level. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3914657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tharand Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I purchased Damnation last night so that I can find out just how good or bad it really is for myself! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3915071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Bovus Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 It's interesting to see how varied the reactions are to this. I finally caved and started buying the HH books for my Kindle (rather than waiting for them to come out in paperback), because otherwise Im months behind these discussions. I have to agree with the majority opinion here that I didn't really enjoy this book very much. I wouldn't say its BAD, and certainly not as underwhelming as other HH novels (Vulkan Lives), but overall it was slow, with the major events being too foreseeable to really hold me in any kind of suspense. I think the biggest blow against the book wasn't that that "nothing happened" as much as the progression of the book was pretty...I dunno, rote, I guess? As others have said, the colonists being evil was super duper obvious, that the big machine was evil and something terrible would happen was pretty overdone as well. The combat, apart from the Callidora bit, was just like others have said - a group of outnumbered marines against a terrible horde of faceless baddies. The best part by far, I thought, was in the portrayal of the X Legion themselves and how Isstvan and the Gorgon's death affected them. One of my favorite aspects of 40k, right up there with the righteous badassery of the space marines and all that, is the underlying tragedy of the whole setting, and the Iron Hands are really one of the best examples of that. Their primarch dies abruptly, while still fostering doubts about his own legion. Then we get to watch the Iron Hands slow become the monsters we know them to be in M41 (see Wrath of Iron), because the very nature of their identity prevents them from effectively coping with the Dropsite Massacre and the Heresy as a whole. I really love it when 40k books address these underlying themes of the setting, which Annandale does very mindfully, if you read the afterword. Still not a great HH book on the whole, though, imo. Wow that's a lot of words. I haven't gotten to nerd out about 40k in a while, so forgive the wall of text. I do hope more authors try to think like Annandale when writing HH stuff. Even though I didn't enjoy the book all that much, Ill be looking forward to his next book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3917512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 With the exception of looking forward to his other book (Death of Antagonis, Mephiston, the Yarrick books and his audio offerings have been underwhelming) those are fair points raised. And who doesn't love a nerd out? We're on a forum talking about little plastic space men. Even within the community of "nerds" who collect little plastic space men, we're an entirely new level within that circle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3917562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tharand Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'm about half way through the book now and I quite like it. I think it's an interesting look into the mind of the Iron Hands as you watch them slide into what they've become in 40k. I like Sgt. Galba as a character. I think the book is certainly leaps and bounds better than some of the worst books in series like 'Battle for the Abyss' and 'Nemesis'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3926198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tharand Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 This thread is getting long in the tooth but I wanted to throw my opinion out there for anyone thinking about reading Damnation of Pythos. I enjoyed the book a lot even though it is a side story to the Heresy. Damnation of Pythos really captures the futility of the grimdark universe that we know and love. No matter the choices that the characters make it more often than not leads them to "damnation". This concept shows up perfectly in the Iron Hand's characters and even with the human serfs. It's interesting to watch the Iron Hands to into the reverse of the Emperor's Children. Anyway, I enjoyed the book a lot and would totally recommend it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294003-damnation-of-pythosinitial-thoughts/page/6/#findComment-3940681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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