The dilemma... and discussion

[LongGone]

Yeah, yeah, this is another one of those threads. The ones about choosing a legion. I've been watching everyone else dig in to the Heresy with reckless abandon, and now I want to be part of this ship with this crazy crew you guys keep referencing (where did that come from, btw?)

To help though, i feel I need to give you some backstory on me, so you understand where I'm coming from. Things got a little hectic and stressful near the end of last year, and my hobby time dropped to zero. Now that I've settled into my role as a long distance father, and have gotten the hang of my new job here in Okinawa, my mind has once again turned to the hobby. The last few years I've watched as the Heresy has grown from a handful of novels, into the wondrous ... cornucopia of awesomey goodness... it is today. And I want in!

I've dabbled in the hobby, and the 40K universe, for a little over ten years. My big draw has been BL novels. My armies over the years have never been big. I made DA army with the starter set that had the Templars on the box, took a hiatus and then made a small Templars force after I came back from my deployment in 2007, and most recently was creating a DIY Blood Angels successor (you can find the IA buried somewhere in the Liber). I'm looking to up the ante this time around. Bigger is better, right?

In preparation for my derailed DIY, I acquired quite the collection of plastic and resin. As bad as I feel about not completing them (although I will go back and finish that IA), my mind is fully set on a Heresy force. I just placed the order with FW for the books and I've got more than enough to start the compulsory HQ and 2 Troops choices.

Here's my dilemma though: I've narrowed it down to two legions, the Blood Angels and the World Eaters. It may not necessarily be the winning focus in 6th/7th, but I love the close combat feel of both of them. Plus, i think swords and axes just look cooler on the table top.

Here's what I'm thinking:

Blood Angels

My DIY was a BA sucessor, so I have a metric ton of winged blood drop goodness in my bitz box. So it'd be easy to start a BA Heresy army without using additional funds. That said, how long am I going to have to wait for the rules? (That's a serious question, btw. I know there's someone out there who knows exactly when BA rules will come out in one of the 30 planned HH books). It'd be nice to start an army knowing what the rules for said army were actually going to be. Thanks to people like Jaspcat though, I know the Blood Angels can look pretty damn sexy in HH.

Fluff-wise, I think the sons of Sanguinius are where its at. They've got the angely goodness mixed with the blood sucking darkness. Their fluff just does it for me, which is always a good thing if you're going to spend a large amount of time working on a army.

World Eaters

They've taken close combat, and kicked it up to 10. The gladiator theme they have going on mixes very well with the fluff from my DIY. The color palette is also almost the exact same as my DIY, and I could continue learning to paint white effectively.

When it comes to modeling, I don't think it would be that hard to convert a lot of what I have. Personally, I think SG torsos (minus the ceramite THO) are more gladiator-esque than the WE torso upgrades. Think stylized Mk IV gladiator breastplate. At least, that's what Mr. Crowe and a certain Starz series have taught me about gladiator appearance. I know some of the ornamentation will have to go, but a blood drop here or there never hurt anyone.

Plus, they have established rules. I may not know exactly what they are at the moment, but I will when the book gets here. I won't have to wait much longer than a week or two to start planning what shape my army will take.

I will say though, if I do end up with a WE army, I will focus more on dirt and damage than on blood. As cool as some of the blood effects are, I think the fine line to "That's a little much" is crossed all to easily.

------------------------

So that's it. What say you brothers and sisters of the B&C? What advice or knowledge do you have to tip the scale in either direction? For those of you with WE armies, how have they performed on the table top? For those who have started armies without established rules, what was it like to play them? Or did/can you? Any thoughts or guidance you can give to a fledgling Heresy tabletop general would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Semper,

LongGone

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I'd say Angels for the simple fact that I've hardly seen any HH era IX Legion armies out there. World Eater armies are all over the place, most with the obligatory blood-splattered paint job.

[Piano_Sam]

I narrowed it down to two also, UM and BA.  I decided to do both.  Either a primary UM with BA detachment, or vice versa.  There's a lot out there, and Unremembered Empire put the two legions together at one time, so I felt confident in my choice, both modeling and fluff-wise.  Do both!

[Ishagu]

I wouldn't rush into BA until FW started focusing on them, which will likely be a few years or more...

 

World Eaters may be common in 30k circles but certainly not in the hobby world. They have some awesome units and characters.

 

But why ignore the Sons of Horus? They aren't quite as combat orientated as World Eaters, but they certainly enjoy a good scrap.

[GhostMalone]

Honestly you and I are the same here, now the question is are you loyal to a primarch that was forced to bow and be stripped of honour and pride before his chance to become a god amongst men or do you feel your loyalties to an incomplete being fearful of his place in a universe where what makes him unique also makes him damned in the eyes of his farther an idol of a bygone age and a son that fears what the depths of his soul truly contain.

[LongGone]

BCK, Being one of the many, at least in that regard, has never really bothered me. Just look at my fellow Templar players. Even with their slow slide into Loving the Witch-dom, they're still everywhere! Plus, like Ishagu alluded to, there's the wait for rules/resin. Ishagu, I actually thought about the Luna Wolves for a sec. I think white looks all kinds of sexy when done right. I don't feel a... connection with them as I do the other two legions, so I put them aside.

And Sam, I know a lot of people are splitting their focus and building multiple smaller detachments. I've got enough irons in the fire, that I'd like to focus on one as much as possible. Plus, while funds are not exactly an issue, I've always been very conscious of the money that goes into this hobby. I feel I can stretch what I put into the hobby further if I focus.

Jaspcat, that's a tough question man. If I was forced to decide off of primarchs alone, I would probably lean toward Sanguinius. Although I like Red Hulk as a character, I don't have much sympathy for him (C'mon, he inherited the Eaters of WORLDS), and there's something about his model that doesn't do it for me. I saw someone do a conversion of Asterion Moloc (fairly certain I jacked that name up} and it just clicked in my head that he would be a great base for a conversion. But I love Khârn's model... even though they might as well be one and the same.

Edit: @Jasp, how do you feel about building/playing an army that could take quite a while to get rules that give it the unique flavor that makes it special?

[GhostMalone]

That's the question. I've built a bases for my BA

So that when they release the BA lists and rules I can actually build to the fluff.

Now that WE are fleshed out I can return, I remember when the reavers were first released and I used the bodies for gladiator marines (now a norm for converting in the community) I didn't have the WE at the time as fleshed out as they are now so I've returned to the XIIth.

 

A matter for a pov how you see the primarch of your legion should reflect your marines.

 

If you think angron was a herald of ruin for the warhounds do loyalist WE who maybe refuse to utilise chain weapons and rather the elegance of broadswords or long swords or BA that went traitor because they felt closest to the luna wolves then the angel ,it all comes down to your own interpretation of your legion of choice

[The Red Thirst]

Honestly you and I are the same here, now the question is are you loyal to a primarch that was forced to bow and be stripped of honour and pride before his chance to become a god amongst men or do you feel your loyalties to an incomplete being fearful of his place in a universe where what makes him unique also makes him damned in the eyes of his farther an idol of a bygone age and a son that fears what the depths of his soul truly contain.

@ Jaspcat, You sir are awesome :D

 

@ LongGone, Why not do both?? I seem to recall quite a few Blood Angels earning glory in the pits of the World Eaters, chef amongst them being Nassir 'The Flesh Tearer' Amit. To me this would hit at the fact that in some point in time the Blood Angels campaigned with the World Eaters. 

 

You could do a force of World Eaters with an attached contingent of Blood Angels :) given that we dont have any rules for the Angels yet this is what id go for.

[Hyaenidae]

Something else to keep in mind: With the release of the Legiones Astartes Cusade Army Book, on Page 80, those Legions who are "unlisted" (AKA, don't have their own unique rules yet) may add either Stubborn or Furious Charge for free while waiting in the interim for their rules to be released.

 

So, go Blood Angels. The World Eaters got enough bodies on the ground, lol.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

BCK, Being one of the many, at least in that regard, has never really bothered me. Just look at my fellow Templar players. Even with their slow slide into Loving the Witch-dom, they're still everywhere! Plus, like Ishagu alluded to, there's the wait for rules/resin.

My first choice for a HH army was White Scars, but FW has said they'll pretty much be the last Legion they do, and not unlike you wanting to wait for rules and resin for Angels, I moved on to one of the current armies that had them, but instead of of doing the psycho, gore-soaked flayers that the Night Lords are normally portrayed as, I looked at the core of what they were originally supposed to be before corruption truly took hold of them.

I went through a similar period where I had a lot of choices and couldn't make up my mind, and I did get some input from other members, but in the end, nothing of what anyone else said really mattered. I was trying so heard to hear what the other voices were saying, I wasn't hearing the one inside my own head that had already made the decision for me.

[Balthamal]

In terms of rules, you've got a fair wait in store I'm afraid. Conquest is next, and that doesn't really contain anything for the Legions. Then there's the (projected) duology for Calth containing the Ultramarines, Daemonic Word Bearers and Ultramar Imperial Army Units and don't be surprised to see the Mechanicum get a bump in there too. Inferno aka the Fall of Prospero is also floating around at present, having being benched due to the amount of work needed for it as things stand. So there's 4 books (2-3 years) after which it was rumoured quietly that the Dark Angels and Blood Angels would be covered in the same volume so with that I'd say you're looking at a bare minimum 2 years and possibly 3+ if other volumes are introduced beforehand that don't prominently feature individual legions.

 

That being said, I'd still go full ahead with the IX Legion. This isn't 40k - every Legion can do whatever it wants. Even the generic Rites of War have the Blood Angels covered. Trust me, given the amount of money a Legion project will set you back, you'll be glad of the delay. Assault Squads are already troops, you can take a plethora of jump units, you've got fliers like the Storm Eagle and Fire Raptor all fit in with a Blood Angels theme, before you even move into the basic Legion stuff like tactical squads, tank squadrons etc. Bottom line, you can do whatever you want with them, because everything is both legal and fluffy.

 

So unfurl your wings with pride and take up the mantle of the IX Legion 

[depthcharge12]

White Scars.

 

Cuz you can do white and red. Oh and Jetbikes.

[LongGone]

@ The Red Thirst - My focus suffers from an extreme lack thereof. I don't know how some of the brothers/sisters of this forum juggle the umpty-billion projects some of them decide to tackle. In order to get stuff done and actually make progress, i need to commit to the one legion. It probably sounds silly and very self limiting, but in order to do this and do it right, its just best if I stick to the one. Kudos to those who can do it, but it is beyond my ken.

@Balthamal - 2-3 years?!?! Great googly moogly!

@ BCK and Jasp

See, if I did the World Eaters, that would be the direction I take them in. Loyalists before they met Angron went all 'blood for the blood god', or maybe never made it to Istvaan. Gladiators without the cartoon levels of gore. And I am listening to the voice inside my head. Weeding out the other 18 options was cake and pie. These are the only two legions who I actively look for on the forums, the only two who really do anything for me.

@depthcharge12 Everyone knows red... erm, and white, things go faster. I just don't feel much of anything when I think about the White Scars. Beyond someone posting a link to a blog post about a ridiculously well done outrider squad, I've never been moved by the Khan and his boys.

@Heathens - I will definitely keep that in mind. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Hmmmm...

[sitnam]

As others have said, I suggest you go with BA's. In the meantime between books you could run your list as a counts as World Eaters or something. That said I find both Red Butchers and Rampgers really cool model wise and fluff wise.

 

You could always build WE's first and then a BA army so you have a loyalist and traitor army

[Hyaenidae]

Face it, man. Red and gold, pinioned wings set around a ruby drop, just looks beautiful. True Angels, the face of humanity's collective nobility.

 

Our own JackDaw recently bit the bullet, and made a HH Blood Angel from Palatine Blade and Red Scorpion HG bits, which looks like a natural kit on it's own.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290897-a-holy-work-the-three-hives-rebellion/?p=3749898

 

See? The IX Legion is really the best choice, and will be truly worth it in the long run.

[GhostMalone]

But what about just doing warhounds

[Armond]

I was actually going to suggest the IX as well! Boys in red would be cool!

 

Btw, I am heading to Okinawa in March, PCSing, so I will see you there!! May I ask who you work for? I am Air Force, so going to Kadena!

[LongGone]

@Armond I'm a Marine. I live and work on Foster right now, which is just down the road from where you'll be. In about a month I'll start commuting to Camp Hansen for work. Here's an early 'Welcome to Oki!'

 

@Jasp I like the idea of doing a force of WE veterans who still have a bunch of Warhound iconography. But for whatever reason, I'm not as jazzed about the reversed color scheme.

[The Red Thirst]

Face it, man. Red and gold, pinioned wings set around a ruby drop, just looks beautiful. True Angels, the face of humanity's collective nobility.

 

Our own JackDaw recently bit the bullet, and made a HH Blood Angel from Palatine Blade and Red Scorpion HG bits, which looks like a natural kit on it's own.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290897-a-holy-work-the-three-hives-rebellion/?p=3749898

 

See? The IX Legion is really the best choice, and will be truly worth it in the long run.

Haha your really pushing for the Blood Angels aren't you heathens, better be careful, people might start to think that your.... "Loyal" to a certain Golden Throne ;)

[LongGone]

Well damn...

Just got an email from FW saying they can't ship the books to my address here in Okinawa due to weight restrictions with UPS. It looks like it will take even more time to get to me through my address back in the states. Is anyone familiar with making FW orders while at an FPO address? Not looking forward to all that extra postage every time I make an order for the next few years...

[Millicant]

Hmm if it's a weight restriction then hopefully the books would be the only thing affected. As long as you aren't buying a couple paychecks worth of resin at a time I can't imagine most models would exceed the limits. That's just a guess though - probably worth investigating.

[Armond]

That makes little sense actually to me, an FPO/APO address is an address in the USA, it is then transported via Air Force out to the final destination.  I believe the FPO is in New York and the APO is in California.  I would talk to their customer service, I have had books shipped to me on deployment...

[Hyaenidae]

Haha your really pushing for the Blood Angels aren't you heathens, better be careful, people might start to think that your.... "Loyal" to a certain Golden Throne

Loyal to the Imperium and it's people. Not it's monstrous leader, or his damned spawn.

[LongGone]

@Armond sent them an email back and am waiting for their response. I can't imagine this issue hasn't come up before, with all the US service members that use this forum.

 

Is it within reason to expect to somehow recoup the postage costs from the states to here if that's what ends up happening?

[Armond]

Well here is how the as heck usually does things.  The cost to ship to the FPO/APO address is whatever the USPS says it is.  From the FPO/APO address to your ACTUAL geolocation is not charged...  It is picked up by the Air Force because our branch flies it in our planes to take it to the service members.  That is a fight I have been fighting with all kinds of companies for a long time.  They don't realize that once they deliver to the FPO/APO location, they are technically delivering to the U.S., everything else afterwards is us getting it to you!  So the cost from the address it arrives at in New York or Cali is all you end up paying, the rest of it is pretty much null and void.  At least that is what someone I know from postal described to me.