++ Gods of the Arena - A World Eaters Community ++

[Brother Aiwass]

Well, however it ends, zerks and NM shouldn't be troops anyway imo. Because they're not holding objectives, they are in for the killing, not to accomplish some weird tactical objective. You can field a butcher horde with the elites detachment if you like, so what I'm seeing is that you want obsec zerks and that's not their role.

[Commissar K.]

Index says its their role and we have had multiple editions where they could be Troops, so both history and current World Eater Army ruling doesnt agree with that statement Aiwass.

[Berzerker88]

 

Well it's true that 'Army rules' are not mentioned anywhere in the Codex. But the problem is that GW's article doesn't say what you should do with 'Army rules'. So we will definetly need to take this, or wait for a potentially inconclusive FAQ.

Still, GW's FB reply should give us an idea of what their thoughts are on the matter. I expect them, but not hope for them, to double down.

 

Not only is that true, the link (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/) on the article specifically states this aswell:

 

 

 

I just bought Index: Imperium 1 – what should I do with it?You’ll want to keep hold of your index. Codex: Space Marines doesn’t include rules for playing with Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Deathwatch or Grey Knights armies, so you’ll still need Index: Imperium 1 to play with those[/size]

So if we translate that to Index Chaos, why wouldn't the Index Army Rules for playing with World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons and Emperors Children be available? As for the Imperium Codexi it is clear that you can still use the Index Army Rules.

Likewise we have this aswell:

 

 

 

If I have a Blood Angels, Dark Angels or Space Wolves army, will I need to buy Codex: Space Marines to use my army?You don’t have to. Other Space Marines factions not covered in the new codex will continue to use all the datasheets, rules and points values in the index until their own codex is released[/size]

So how does this not translate to: If I have a World Eater army, will I need to buy Codex: Chaos Space Marines to use my army?

- You don't have to. Other CSM factions not covered in the new codex will continue to use all rules etc.

So far the World Eater Army Rules are what I call rules. In addition to that, the Facebook page for Warhammer 40.000 is not an official awnser from Games Workshops design teams and they have stated so in their previous replies many times. Whoever does the social media is not the same as doing the design nor do they have the final option to change designs through means of errata for example.

Whatever statement you choose, the Facebook statement directly contradicts the Warhammer Community article.

This reasoning makes me very happy, because it makes sense. However, I agree with Cheex that they'll probably invalidate it next FAQ.

 

What article did they lie about?

[Cheex]

 

While I agree that berzerkers remain Troops by RAW, I fully expect that the FAQ will invalidate the "World Eaters Army" page. I suggest we all come to terms with the possibility that this might happen, even as we hope that they rule that berzerkers do stay as Troops.

It certainly can happen, though it would make the article from just a month ago full of lies. Not really a cool thing to do

 

I just hope they'll make an official statement regard it soon. Though GW also cares very little about 40K Chaos so they might not come back on it at all.

 

Not full of lies; it will just have an exception. All rules are liable to have exceptions - that's how rules work. Berzerkers are able to fight twice - that doesn't make the normal Fight phase rules lies, it's just an exception to the normal rule.

 

Index says its their role and we have had multiple editions where they could be Troops, so both history and current World Eater Army ruling doesnt agree with that statement Aiwass.

I still agree with your Index army page conclusion, however an argument based on history is irrelevant. I remember when Obliterators used to be Elites and Dreadnoughts used to be Heavy Support and Vindicators weren't even part of the Chaos army, for example. What happened in previous editions has no bearing on what is happening now.

[Berzerker88]

Well, however it ends, zerks and NM shouldn't be troops anyway imo. Because they're not holding objectives, they are in for the killing, not to accomplish some weird tactical objective. You can field a butcher horde with the elites detachment if you like, so what I'm seeing is that you want obsec zerks and that's not their role.

You're looking at it the wrong way, all World Eaters are Berzerkers so it wouldn't make sense for them to be 'Elites' within their own legion.

[Brother Aiwass]

Except that "not all WE are berzerkers and not all berzerkers are WE".

 

And by your logic, you also want berzerker havocs I assume? But since WE have havocs and they are not berzerkers...

[Commissar K.]

So far the Army rules have not been updated by the Codex, as there is litterly not a single page in the Codex talking about the World Eater army rules.

In other news, we finally have some awesome Khornate Cultists, which Im happy with!

Thanks for comming back Necromunda!

 

[Commissar K.]

 

Not full of lies; it will just have an exception. All rules are liable to have exceptions - that's how rules work. Berzerkers are able to fight twice - that doesn't make the normal Fight phase rules lies, it's just an exception to the normal rule.

 

 

I still agree with your Index army page conclusion, however an argument based on history is irrelevant. I remember when Obliterators used to be Elites and Dreadnoughts used to be Heavy Support and Vindicators weren't even part of the Chaos army, for example. What happened in previous editions has no bearing on what is happening now.

 

 

I don't think they need to be the exceptions. All rules are liable is what the article basically covers. The only enforcing rule is to use the most up to date variant of that rule. By all means the World Eater army rules (or EC for that matter) has not been updated. With this I mean page 45 of the Index, where we get the option to have Troop choice Berzerkers if they have Legion changed to World Eaters.

 

What happend in previous editions has bearing on what is happening now if we are left to read the Warhammer Community article :). Which states they have listened to what we liked and put that into the Codex. That same article also implies that both Index and Codex are to be used alonside of each other for now untill all rules have been covered in other Codexi.

 

What I deem very likely is that the Army rules for World Eaters are still legal and they will be updated in the Chapter Approved Codex, but for now we can use the Index for that, despite what someone at the 40K Facebook page said...

[Plaguecaster]

So far the Army rules have not been updated by the Codex, as there is litterly not a single page in the Codex talking about the World Eater army rules.

In other news, we finally have some awesome Khornate Cultists, which Im happy with!

Thanks for comming back Necromunda!

 

Damn those are nice, now I wonder how much they will cost and how much guys you get in a box as they look far better than those mono pose ones from dark vengeance and are actually multi part :D

[Khornestar]

Those would make fine brutes for a Marauders unit.

[Berzerker88]

Except that "not all WE are berzerkers and not all berzerkers are WE".

 

And by your logic, you also want berzerker havocs I assume? But since WE have havocs and they are not berzerkers... :whistling:

How did you come to that conclusion? There are no Berzerker Havocs. There are no World Eater havocs in the 41th Millenium.

[Brother Aiwass]

 

Except that "not all WE are berzerkers and not all berzerkers are WE".

 

And by your logic, you also want berzerker havocs I assume? But since WE have havocs and they are not berzerkers...

How did you come to that conclusion? There are no Berzerker Havocs. There are no World Eater havocs in the 41th Millenium.

 

What are the Teeth of Khorne?

What is this?

[Commissar K.]

 

What are the Teeth of Khorne?

 

What is this?

 

 

Who are those Cultists changing their name to World Eaters?! Counting as Chaos Space Marines! ;) 

 

Jokes aside, lets not lynch each other just yet. While I am somewhat frustrated aswell the thing really boils down to forcing down 10 Codex in less than half a year, even if they started a year ago with this it's still a lot to process.

 

What I hope to see is that Games Workshop will have some writers on the design team or just the design team speaking up on intend. They have done so before with the latest Errata, it's just a pitty that somehow good clear intend isn't really easy to find in all the hasty wording in the Codex.

[Cheex]

 

Except that "not all WE are berzerkers and not all berzerkers are WE".

 

And by your logic, you also want berzerker havocs I assume? But since WE have havocs and they are not berzerkers... :whistling:

How did you come to that conclusion? There are no Berzerker Havocs. There are no World Eater havocs in the 41th Millenium.

IIRC, the Red Path series features Berzerkers in Khârn's Warband carrying heavy weapons to repel a ship boarding action.

[thraxdown]

Is it just me or does Khârn kinda suck this edition? His aura is only 1", he has d3 damage instead of 3 for some reason. He gets btfbg, but wouldn't it be better to take a champ, dark apostle with a power fist and plasma pistol split between them for about the same points. That way you can reroll hits and wounds within 6" in the fight phase?

[Cryptix]

Is it just me or does Khârn kinda suck this edition? His aura is only 1", he has d3 damage instead of 3 for some reason. He gets btfbg, but wouldn't it be better to take a champ, dark apostle with a power fist and plasma pistol split between them for about the same points. That way you can reroll hits and wounds within 6" in the fight phase?

Dark apostles don't have 14 attacks hitting on 2s at S6 AP-4 (so forcing even land raiders to save on 6s). On average he can severely hurt a knight by himself, and with some berserker friends he'll take it down.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Swarmlord Unleashed

[Commissar K.]

I really like Khârn actually. The fact that his aura is 1" matters little to me. Hes a fine 160 investment that has no issues bringing that cost back to you.

 

To each its own though, if you dont want to use him you dont need to perse.

[Commissar K.]

So I finally got my Forgeworld bits so Im ready to make some 8th Berzerkers! First up are two units, each with a WYS Chainsword and Chainaxe. Kits Im planning to use for them are the Warp Talon/Raptors, regular Chaos Space Marines and the World Eater kit. 

Now my question for you guys is which numbers you regularly use and which equipment you further add?

With the new cost for Plasma Pistols (7 points) I'm considering them again, fully agreeing that it isn't too much of an added punch when compaired to Power Fists. Oh how I wish we had the option to simply add 3 of them in there (one for the Champion and two regular guys for example)...

At the same time I also ordered the Terminator World Eater kit and I really don't know what to do with Terminators this edition. On one side I like them but I can't really make them see the big difference. Again what is nice is the discounted Power Fist but since I'm planning to transport the Berzerkers anyway I think there might be too much overlap. They certainly have an added survivability and with the Legion Traits can fight again also but I feel that things like Warp Talons for example are a whole lot more interesting if we wanted to go that route. I generally like Lightning Claws and like anybody fighting twice with such units just seems really good and well, frankly, better :D

In any case my 8th experience can finally begin with a complete non-dusty model start. For which I'm quite happy with altough with all the recent changes it's still more of a hobby project than active tournament plan. At this moment I would also love to hear some experiences for those who allready had many battles on a competitive level and how arguments where approached in regards to using Index alongside Codex. 

Cheers,

 

[Sagentus]

Is it just me or does Khârn kinda suck this edition? His aura is only 1", he has d3 damage instead of 3 for some reason. He gets btfbg, but wouldn't it be better to take a champ, dark apostle with a power fist and plasma pistol split between them for about the same points. That way you can reroll hits and wounds within 6" in the fight phase?

Any chance someone could post the rules/fittings for a Dark apostle? Battlescribe only lets me hace a Power maul, But it would be great if i could have a powerfist as suggested

 

@Commisar K - I have gone 4 x for Combi-melta/chain fist with mine and a heavy flamer just incase any hordes get close lol

Edited August 14, 2017 by Sagentus

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

Is it just me or does Khârn kinda suck this edition? His aura is only 1", he has d3 damage instead of 3 for some reason. He gets btfbg, but wouldn't it be better to take a champ, dark apostle with a power fist and plasma pistol split between them for about the same points. That way you can reroll hits and wounds within 6" in the fight phase?

He's been an auto-take for me in every single list, even more so now that he's gone down in cost and gotten an extra attack on the charge. The way I've been using him, his warlord trait will really come in handy as I typically send him to hunt characters- kill 1 or 2 and all of a sudden he can solo a Knight. 

 

However, he also does cost as much as a whole squad of 8 Berzerkers kitted out with a axes, a fist, and an icon, so that is another thing to think about...

 

I just tried the Dark Apostle/Exalted Champ combo last weekend- I had an 8-man Berzerker squad in both their auras kill Guilliman in one round of combat before he could even think about interrupting (he had a few wounds on him at that point but still). It is extremely potent and I think an easy auto-include if you're running Berzerkers (which I assume literally all of us are).

 

CommissarK: 7 minimum for Berzerkers, ideally no less than 8 but no more than 10. Axes/swords on the mooks, fist/sword on the champ with an icon thrown in somewhere. I really see no place for pistols on them.

[MoK]

Surely if your playing PL you would go for 10 man squads since they are the same PL as 8 man squads. Are people playing pts more than PL?

[Commissar K.]

 

Is it just me or does Khârn kinda suck this edition? His aura is only 1", he has d3 damage instead of 3 for some reason. He gets btfbg, but wouldn't it be better to take a champ, dark apostle with a power fist and plasma pistol split between them for about the same points. That way you can reroll hits and wounds within 6" in the fight phase?

Any chance someone could post the rules/fittings for a Dark apostle? Battlescribe only lets me hace a Power maul, But it would be great if i could have a powerfist as suggested

 

@Commisar K - I have gone 4 x for Combi-melta/chain fist with mine and a heavy flamer just incase any hordes get close lol

 

 

Thanks for the info on the Termies! Let me know more about how you liked them and played against X or Y.

 

As for the Dark Apostle, only a Power Maul and a option from the Pistols or Combi Weapons list, so no Power Fist for him, or Power Axe etc.

 

 

I just tried the Dark Apostle/Exalted Champ combo last weekend- I had an 8-man Berzerker squad in both their auras kill Guilliman in one round of combat before he could even think about interrupting (he had a few wounds on him at that point but still). It is extremely potent and I think an easy auto-include if you're running Berzerkers (which I assume literally all of us are).

 

CommissarK: 7 minimum for Berzerkers, ideally no less than 8 but no more than 10. Axes/swords on the mooks, fist/sword on the champ with an icon thrown in somewhere. I really see no place for pistols on them.

 

I agree, still like Khârn and 160 points is not too much. Sure a whole unit of Berzerkers could also do the trick but as you said, he still gets the Trait benifits and sometimes you need one guy in a tight spot where a whole unit cannot physically enter/be. This to me is where Khârn excels. He is a kamikaze but Khorne cares not.

 

I also think that the Dark Apostale or Exalted Champ is a great choice, a little less confinced by the Dark Apostle but only due to more restricted wargear options.

 

For me the choice is clear, pirate Berzerkers :P! Thanks!

[Sagentus]

Cheers for the confirmation commissar! It is a bit restricting but I'm gonna use the dv chaplain as a Base for mine :)

[Panzer]

Surely if your playing PL you would go for 10 man squads since they are the same PL as 8 man squads. Are people playing pts more than PL?

I think so, yeah. At least I don't know anybody irl who plays PL. It's just more unbalanced by design since it gives units with lots of wargear options a huge advantage.

Writing lists with points doesn't take much time and even less with Battlescribe so there's no reason to use PL. Our group doesn't plan to play PL games anytime soon.

[Extropian]

PL is fine for casual friendly games, but it sucks for balance so we don't use it for even fights.

Good for just throwing something together for a quick blast though.