++ Gods of the Arena - A World Eaters Community ++

[Commissar K.]

The "if they are able to do so" line almost seems so unnecessary as to be intent rather than oversight, especially considering the previous paragraph that psykers are unable to take MoK- is GW now telling us that WE Psykers are ok?...

 

I think it's a bit ridiculous but the context certainly seems to suggest it...

I only follow RAW. I prefer to include the World Eater Army Rules to that because it makes much more sence in the grand contex. Using the Codex rules only at this point doesn't only seem like a poor idea it actually would deny you acces to a vast multitude of armies and Datasheets while again GW has officially stated that you can use the Index rules, except they insist that the latest version of the rule is used (same applies for Errata and such). 

 

What I believe is the case is that Games Workshop wants you to use the Index aswell. From a marketing perspective it only makes sence, from what they have officially communicated it seems to be the case and in addition using Codex Chaos Space Marine rules only implies your not using the Imperial Armour books either? 

 

All I can say to those that want to use the Codex CSM rules only is that your limiting yourself in ways not suggested by GW or FW at all...

 

 

[Panzer]

Well I just hope that the small amount of attention they gave EC and WE means we'll be seeing their Codices within the next year. :P

[Commissar K.]

Well I just hope that the small amount of attention they gave EC and WE means we'll be seeing their Codices within the next year.

Would be great, but more importantly I hope GW will eventually care about Chaos Space Marines as a whole. In reality and this is an unsalted opinion the Index with Errata is actually at a better state as this Codex. So all I see continiously is rushed work, rushed to the point where we are left with strange rulings, content indexes that are not correct and most obnoxiously the dissapearance of Datasheets "because they need to be converted" while the fast mayority of the army needs conversions or kitbashes to begin with to create the Datasheets.

 

In any case, wait and see is the plan. I've began painting my first Berzerker in a long time but it's dark here now and my lighting isn't too great so an update will come tomorrow.

 

As a small preview, I really think the Chaos Raptor/Warp Talon Legs, Arms and general weapons are awesome. The dynamic movement is exactly what I wanted for Khorne Berzerkers, though I do have to admit, they do like they are flying a little... Some alterations to the base should fix that however. 

 

Cheers,

 

PS, totally different Legion but the Emperor's Children seem to have recieved quite some nice bonuses aswell. I do wonder if the prefered Champion Equipment there actually is the pair of Lighting Claws. Striking first with those seems effective enough to me in a lot of cases. For sure a regular Power Fist is great aswell but that additional attack can make the difference I believe for Emperor's Children. Will have to peek into their topic aswell ;) 

[mika_angelus]

Damn. I missed that "IF".

Sorry.

 

I expect a faq shortly. Probably this weekend? SM got theirs a week after release I think.

 

On the bright side Angron is most probably the next daemon primarch to come out so I think WE codex next year with some new berserker models (finally!!) isn't unthinkable.

[Panzer]

Emperor's Children indeed got quite some nice things but mostly because they are (supposed to be) Slaanesh. The always strikes first is nice but only really comes into play when the enemy charges with 2+ units or in the second and ongoing rounds of combat (the first charging unit always strikes first since the controlling player chooses first when alternating).

 

The double shooting and the FnP power are much much more interesting and those are available for anyone. I dare say a Slaanesh Alpha Legion or Night Lords army is better than an Emperor's Children army.

Tho I do admit the Excess of Violence Stratagem on Possessed/Terminators/Chosen and the Stimulated by Pain Warlord trait are quite nice.

But that's enough offtopic now. ;)

Why should Angron be the next one? All that we heared from Angron is that the Grey Knights prevented his arrival while we already heared from Fulgrim being active during Gathering Storm and Fulgrim even already attacked Guilliman mentally. ^^

[Trevak Dal]

Well, however it ends, zerks and NM shouldn't be troops anyway imo. Because they're not holding objectives, they are in for the killing, not to accomplish some weird tactical objective. You can field a butcher horde with the elites detachment if you like, so what I'm seeing is that you want obsec zerks and that's not their role.

I think in previous editions, making non troop things troops was a way to give players the ability to take more of a given unit in an army. Zerkers over csm for example, or Crisis suits instead of Firewarriors.

 

Now with the varying detachments you can play the army you want (theoretically) and it will be somewhat balanced by a boon or lack of command points.

 

Zerkers are basically 40k Rampagers with fewer weapon options. Looking at the death guard options, here's hoping that changes whenever they come out with a new kit

Edited August 17, 2017 by Trevak Dal

[Commissar K.]

I expect a faq shortly. Probably this weekend? SM got theirs a week after release I think.

 

On the bright side Angron is most probably the next daemon primarch to come out so I think WE codex next year with some new berserker models (finally!!) isn't unthinkable.

 

Hopefully, however a simple statement that would say: Hey guys, yes you can use Army Rules from the Index, would solve a ton of oddity. Frankly speaking I believe this is intended with the Codex aswell because again if the Codex is all there is they made the whole Index Errata moot again, so created it for... Nothing?

 

I personally think Angron will wait! I believe Conrad Curze to re-appear based on his "new" narrative but first and foremost they really have to update that Abaddon model man... When I look at succesful designs for this Codex (and clear ones at it) the winners are Black Legion and Night Lords to me, to some extend Alpha Legion aswell. The simple reason for it is that their designs match narrative for me. Granted I think their Legion Trait isn't completely what it should be but other than that all the entries in the book make sence enough for a good part of the "Chaos Undivided"'.

 

Emperor's Children indeed got quite some nice things but mostly because they are (supposed to be) Slaanesh. The always strikes first is nice but only really comes into play when the enemy charges with 2+ units or in the second and ongoing rounds of combat (the first charging unit always strikes first since the controlling player chooses first when alternating).

 

The double shooting and the FnP power are much much more interesting and those are available for anyone. I dare say a Slaanesh Alpha Legion or Night Lords army is better than an Emperor's Children army.

Tho I do admit the Excess of Violence Stratagem on Possessed/Terminators/Chosen and the Stimulated by Pain Warlord trait are quite nice.

But that's enough offtopic now.

Why should Angron be the next one? All that we heared from Angron is that the Grey Knights prevented his arrival while we already heared from Fulgrim being active during Gathering Storm and Fulgrim even already attacked Guilliman mentally. ^^

Yeah certain, though if the Codex is all to be used, feel free to use EC Berzerkers, they pack a punch if they charge but if your guaranteed to always fight twice first... Well.. That should work out really well ;) The Index doesn't allow for that but the Codex does. What I do like about the EC rules is that I still assume the EC Army Rules are as viable as the WE ones. So yeah I agree with you that AL or NL Noise Marines seem great but I tend to believe that EC will have them as a Troop choice... Intentionally.

 

Fulgrim is certainly closer in line! Altough I think that after the whole DG and TS ordeal GW will focus onto parts of Xenos and Space Marines instead of Space Marines and parts of Chaos :) 

[Berzerker88]

I did say he was the best SHORT of Abby, Khârn and the like. Seems many if you missed that bit, not sure why. He can easily wreck most named characters, and definetly squat a Jump pack/Biker lord in a turn or two.

 

Any mobility problem can be easily solved with the appropriate transport. He costs less than all the other 'duelist' alternatives. He can buff better than the lords too, which enables him to exert pressure even when not actually fighting a character. That he cannot kill Gulliman is irrelevant to the discussion, first because this was never claimed, and second because he is still much more cost effective than any non-character alternative.

 

EDIT: Fixed a few typos

Edited August 17, 2017 by Berzerker88

[Commissar K.]

Dont worry man, you can use him and for his points he's ace! I really see the discussion as one that doesn't reflect well on the forums vs real lists because we're not including costs and complete army lists. To which the ultimate awnser still remains, "well yeah but Chaos Warlord Battle Titan beats it!!!!" which is true also but doesn't match our regular games.

In reality I think a Exalted Champion is a fine investment at his 70 points, slap a Power Fist on the fellow and he has a good chance thaking out other characters. Because as you said, Transport is available and a must for World Eater units anyway. And while I think other characters might fill better roles for out typical armies, other non-Warp Smith characters are also most certainly more expensive even though we're just talking handful of points here.

The need for "ultimate characters" in World Eater armies in general isn't too massive though, a Daemon Prince, Terminator Armour Lord or Bike Lord can generally archive more due to it's mobility that doesn't require Transports and that's really all there is to it on several levels. The Exalted Champion is unlikely to every go beyond the 90 points so for that cost he will work out just fine. I find it a bit unrealistic to think that any unit will get back more than twice it's cost anyway. However I've had some sick hit rolls with my World Eater Berzerker Champion before, thaking back much more as his cost indicates. This trend is likely to continue because with the World Eaters Legion Trait who can hate on 8 Strenght 10 attacks? The real question again becomes how the flip we get him there ;) 

Still cant wait to give Khârn another go though, I still want to know why some would think he might be a poor 160 point investment. He indeed roughly costs as much as a unit of 8 Khorne Berzerkers with a nice melee kit but with a whopping 14 potential attacks on the charge he's also fully capable of removing any Infantry unit and quite some Vechicles. There just isn't any reason to make him your Warlord but frankly speaking I think we'll all agree that the typical best Khorne Warlord is a Daemon Prince anyway. As much as I love the thought of a Juggerlord with the Axe of Fury his Movement isn't that amazing, he doesn't gain a benifit from the Legion Trait and frankly speaking he doesn't have that many attacks... Even with a Warlord Trait on top of his Artefact.

As a former WE commander has said, discussion is pointless, into the Gladiator pits if you want to make a point ;) 

Cheers,


 

[Berzerker88]

Dont worry man, you can use him and for his points he's ace! I really see the discussion as one that doesn't reflect well on the forums vs real lists because we're not including costs and complete army lists. To which the ultimate awnser still remains, "well yeah but Chaos Warlord Battle Titan beats it!!!!" which is true also but doesn't match our regular games.

In reality I think a Exalted Champion is a fine investment at his 70 points, slap a Power Fist on the fellow and he has a good chance thaking out other characters. Because as you said, Transport is available and a must for World Eater units anyway. And while I think other characters might fill better roles for out typical armies, other non-Warp Smith characters are also most certainly more expensive even though we're just talking handful of points here.

The need for "ultimate characters" in World Eater armies in general isn't too massive though, a Daemon Prince, Terminator Armour Lord or Bike Lord can generally archive more due to it's mobility that doesn't require Transports and that's really all there is to it on several levels. The Exalted Champion is unlikely to every go beyond the 90 points so for that cost he will work out just fine. I find it a bit unrealistic to think that any unit will get back more than twice it's cost anyway. However I've had some sick hit rolls with my World Eater Berzerker Champion before, thaking back much more as his cost indicates. This trend is likely to continue because with the World Eaters Legion Trait who can hate on 8 Strenght 10 attacks? The real question again becomes how the flip we get him there ;) 

Still cant wait to give Khârn another go though, I still want to know why some would think he might be a poor 160 point investment. He indeed roughly costs as much as a unit of 8 Khorne Berzerkers with a nice melee kit but with a whopping 14 potential attacks on the charge he's also fully capable of removing any Infantry unit and quite some Vechicles. There just isn't any reason to make him your Warlord but frankly speaking I think we'll all agree that the typical best Khorne Warlord is a Daemon Prince anyway. As much as I love the thought of a Juggerlord with the Axe of Fury his Movement isn't that amazing, he doesn't gain a benifit from the Legion Trait and frankly speaking he doesn't have that many attacks... Even with a Warlord Trait on top of his Artefact.

As a former WE commander has said, discussion is pointless, into the Gladiator pits if you want to make a point ;) 

Cheers,

 

If only our Warlord trait applied to killing vehicles instead of titans, it might have been worth taking. But why wait when you can get the extra attack, wound, reroll and so on right out of the gate. Though IMHO Khârn is the most likely to get benefits from that Warlord trait of all HQs to which it applies :P

[Commissar K.]

 

If only our Warlord trait applied to killing vehicles instead of titans, it might have been worth taking. But why wait when you can get the extra attack, wound, reroll and so on right out of the gate. Though IMHO Khârn is the most likely to get benefits from that Warlord trait of all HQs to which it applies

 

Yeah I think the World Eater Warlord Trait in particular is useless and even a bit strange. Now more things are strange in the Codex but I feel a simple +1 Strenght would have been more fitting, good and very much in theme with the "World Eater design".

 

While I only had a handful of 8th games under my belt now it always feel a little weak to have non-DP characters attack with S4 again, to the point where I have made the mistake in thing 'surely our Chaos Lords have S5'. That personal issue could have been solved with the Warlord Trait and while I certainly agree that it would be extremely potent for the Daemon Prince and the like, 1 additional attack most certainly doesn't hold up versus a Psycic Power, ANY really, so to me it would have been the perfect boost to have as a World Eater exclusive.

In general I dislike abilities that only do something when you have allready done something relevant. Its the type of bonus that should be extremely good. If we'd have Slaughterborn add a fresh Wound aswell we'd be talking and it would even fit Khârns story of having been through some deaths allready. Which could then be excused by having this effect thake place (or something). 

 

However on the subject of the Exalted Champion again, I am very happy they did include it. For narrative reasons it's great and it also gives us a nice assasin character that we would otherwise not have in the spectrum that directly. I always like the story of Abaddons 4 coloured power ranger champions and for Age of Sigmar they have also included a very cool concept of Gorechosen, different gladiatoral champions of Khorne, which we can now somewhat replicate in 40K. 

[Brother Aiwass]

 

Well, however it ends, zerks and NM shouldn't be troops anyway imo. Because they're not holding objectives, they are in for the killing, not to accomplish some weird tactical objective. You can field a butcher horde with the elites detachment if you like, so what I'm seeing is that you want obsec zerks and that's not their role.

I think in previous editions, making non troop things troops was a way to give players the ability to take more of a given unit in an army. Zerkers over csm for example, or Crisis suits instead of Firewarriors.

 

Now with the varying detachments you can play the army you want (theoretically) and it will be somewhat balanced by a boon or lack of command points.

 

Zerkers are basically 40k Rampagers with fewer weapon options. Looking at the death guard options, here's hoping that changes whenever they come out with a new kit

 

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Problem is, with now everyone and their mother troop's getting obsec, it may be a bit OP (juuust a little bit) and the conflict between fluff and crunch may lead to only elites cult troops. I certainly can see in a future WE release an army wide BftBG rule but keeping zerks relegated to elites only. That would make sense fluff wise (butcher's nails for everybody) but would keep dedicated CQC units (zerks) in their proper slot. This also would bring the wished cult terminators to existence (sort of).

 

Now, some number with the Exalted Chap.

 

Not taking in account retinues (because that would mean that I also need to take in account retinues for the other side) or the Counter-Offensive strat (that's likely to happen) and assuming somehow you've got the charge:

 

Exalted Champion with PF Vs:

 

Random marine captain (very random, just like an NPC, without relics or anything):

5 attacks

3,888866667 hits

3,780805555 wounds

1,890402778 unsaved wounds

6,616409723 damage

Outcome: Dead Captain

 

Random marine captain in cataphractii armor:

5 attacks

3,888866667 hits

3,780805555 wounds

1,260268518 unsaved wounds

4,410939814 damage

Outcome: Angry chainfist captain hitting back (3,888888889 hits, 3,240740741 unsaved wounds, 6,481481482 damage) with a dead Exalted Champion (that's what happens when you don't have an invulnerable save).

 

Hive Tyrant:

 

5 attacks

3,888866667 hits

3,024644445 wounds

2,01642963 unsaved wounds

7,057503704 damage

Outcome; Angry hive tyrant hitting back (3,333333333 hits, 2,777777778 wounds, 2,314814815 unsaved wounds, 6,944444444 damage) with a dead Exalted Champion (that's what happens when you don't have an invulnerable save).

 

And so on. We can still run numbers but:

 

1) The burden of proof remains on those who make the claim

2) EC is power level 5 and the random marine captain is power level 5, the other 2 are 8+, meaning that:

2.1) The EC can kill same PL characters

2.2) The EC will die fighting greater PL characters

2.3) The EC is not The Ultimate Character Killer because he only can take people that is in the same level or less

2.4) GW did a good job balancing the game/codices so far

3) I'm a bit drunk and I can't bother to run more numbers

 

So here is that. The Exalted Chap is not the ultimate anything until proven otherwise.

 

Cheers.

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

I might be in the minority here but I actually quite like Khârn's warlord trait- every single game I've used him in has seen him kill at least one character, and I can think of one instance back when we were on the index where this trait would have lead to him smoking an enemy tank in one round of combat without so much as blinking (slaughtered 2 lord commissars as he waded through a conscript blob into a Leman Russ hanging out on the other side)

[BrassClaw]

GW sent me the Codex on Tuesday, the only problem was that it was the french version. They are sending me a new english one free of charge.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ac/acb415ecfdce73cc54a5e0ccce124bd93f10d1b00dcd8581044b20abfd814821.jpg

 

Anyone want a new french Chaos Space Marine Codex on the cheap?

[Berzerker88]

 

 

 

Well, however it ends, zerks and NM shouldn't be troops anyway imo. Because they're not holding objectives, they are in for the killing, not to accomplish some weird tactical objective. You can field a butcher horde with the elites detachment if you like, so what I'm seeing is that you want obsec zerks and that's not their role.

I think in previous editions, making non troop things troops was a way to give players the ability to take more of a given unit in an army. Zerkers over csm for example, or Crisis suits instead of Firewarriors.

 

Now with the varying detachments you can play the army you want (theoretically) and it will be somewhat balanced by a boon or lack of command points.

 

Zerkers are basically 40k Rampagers with fewer weapon options. Looking at the death guard options, here's hoping that changes whenever they come out with a new kit

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Problem is, with now everyone and their mother troop's getting obsec, it may be a bit OP (juuust a little bit) and the conflict between fluff and crunch may lead to only elites cult troops. I certainly can see in a future WE release an army wide BftBG rule but keeping zerks relegated to elites only. That would make sense fluff wise (butcher's nails for everybody) but would keep dedicated CQC units (zerks) in their proper slot. This also would bring the wished cult terminators to existence (sort of).

 

Now, some number with the Exalted Chap.

 

Not taking in account retinues (because that would mean that I also need to take in account retinues for the other side) or the Counter-Offensive strat (that's likely to happen) and assuming somehow you've got the charge:

 

Exalted Champion with PF Vs:

 

Random marine captain (very random, just like an NPC, without relics or anything):

5 attacks

3,888866667 hits

3,780805555 wounds

1,890402778 unsaved wounds

6,616409723 damage

Outcome: Dead Captain

 

Random marine captain in cataphractii armor:

5 attacks

3,888866667 hits

3,780805555 wounds

1,260268518 unsaved wounds

4,410939814 damage

Outcome: Angry chainfist captain hitting back (3,888888889 hits, 3,240740741 unsaved wounds, 6,481481482 damage) with a dead Exalted Champion (that's what happens when you don't have an invulnerable save).

 

Hive Tyrant:

 

5 attacks

3,888866667 hits

3,024644445 wounds

2,01642963 unsaved wounds

7,057503704 damage

Outcome; Angry hive tyrant hitting back (3,333333333 hits, 2,777777778 wounds, 2,314814815 unsaved wounds, 6,944444444 damage) with a dead Exalted Champion (that's what happens when you don't have an invulnerable save).

 

And so on. We can still run numbers but:

 

1) The burden of proof remains on those who make the claim

2) EC is power level 5 and the random marine captain is power level 5, the other 2 are 8+, meaning that:

2.1) The EC can kill same PL characters

2.2) The EC will die fighting greater PL characters

2.3) The EC is not The Ultimate Character Killer because he only can take people that is in the same level or less

2.4) GW did a good job balancing the game/codices so far

3) I'm a bit drunk and I can't bother to run more numbers

 

So here is that. The Exalted Chap is not the ultimate anything until proven otherwise.

 

Cheers.

He still kills Indomitus and Tartaros captains and a bunch of other marine characters that have a higher power level than he does, and does a much better job at it than a jump pack/biker/terminator Chaos Lord due to the rerolls. And the aura does count since it allows him to exert pressure merely by being around, which might actually make it easier for him to get to his target because the accompanying Berzerkers can get past the chaff units much more quickly.

 

So yes, he is the ultimate short of Abby, Khârn, etc since he does it better and more cost effectively than all of his alternatives of even higher power level while also buffing better as well.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Berzerker88

[Cheex]

 

Now, some number with the Exalted Chap.

 

<snip>

 

Yeah, I'm inclined to think of the Exalted Champion as a support character, with the side role as an opportunistic dueller. It might seem like overkill to put him with berzerkers, but in this edition it's actually worth being able to wipe out whole units on the charge, since multi-charges are no longer heavily penalised and you can consolidate into new units.

 

So, keep him cheap, don't go hunting targets he can't kill, and let the berzerkers do the hard lifting.

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

I'm thinking about just taking him with twin chainswords and not bothering spending points on wargear, even @ S4 he has rerolls to wound and remains quite killy thanks to the 2 bonus attacks he'll be getting.

[Brother Aiwass]

He can easily wreck most named characters

"Most"

 

He can't kill Calgar

He can't kill Lysander

He can't kill Vulkan

He can't kill Eldrad

He can't kill Jain Zar (most of the time)

He can't kill Lelith

He can't kill Imhotek

He can't kill Nemesor

He can't kill Gazghkull

He can't kill Farsight

He can't kill Shadowsun

He can't kill The Swarmlord

He can't kill Old One Eye

He dies against Obyron regardless

 

And then, he only have chances to kill some the other ones if he gets the charge, which looks like you are assuming is going to always happen, which is not.

 

He still kills Indomitus and Tartaros captains and a bunch of other marine characters that have a higher power level than he does, and does a much better job at it than a jump pack/biker/terminator Chaos Lord due to the rerolls. And the aura does count since it allows him to exert pressure merely by being around, which might actually make it easier for him to get to his target because the accompanying Berzerkers can get past the chaff units much more quickly.

 

So yes, he is the ultimate short of Abby, Khârn, etc since he does it better and more cost effectively than all of his alternatives of even higher power level while also buffing better as well.

 

FYI Indomitus and Tartaros were included in the "random marine captain" entry. But hey, I don't want to break your bubble, because the butcher's nails seems that are already kicking in. You shouldn't however, make statements that may mislead other players.

 

I didn't say EC wasn't good, just that he's not the ultimate (a word you seem to like much) character killer. He is a good chap, with good buffing aura(s) and good in melee, but lacks mobility and an invulnerable save. You still making boasts without showing proof, and any unsupported claim should be discarded.

 

If you show me proof (numbers, not anecdotal evidence) that supports that he's the ultimate character killer, I'll happily change my mind.

[Berzerker88]

 

 

He can easily wreck most named characters

"Most"

 

He can't kill Calgar

He can't kill Lysander

He can't kill Vulkan

He can't kill Eldrad

He can't kill Jain Zar (most of the time)

He can't kill Lelith

He can't kill Imhotek

He can't kill Nemesor

He can't kill Gazghkull

He can't kill Farsight

He can't kill Shadowsun

He can't kill The Swarmlord

He can't kill Old One Eye

He dies against Obyron regardless

 

And then, he only have chances to kill some the other ones if he gets the charge, which looks like you are assuming is going to always happen, which is not.

He still kills Indomitus and Tartaros captains and a bunch of other marine characters that have a higher power level than he does, and does a much better job at it than a jump pack/biker/terminator Chaos Lord due to the rerolls. And the aura does count since it allows him to exert pressure merely by being around, which might actually make it easier for him to get to his target because the accompanying Berzerkers can get past the chaff units much more quickly.

 

So yes, he is the ultimate short of Abby, Khârn, etc since he does it better and more cost effectively than all of his alternatives of even higher power level while also buffing better as well.

 

FYI Indomitus and Tartaros were included in the "random marine captain" entry. But hey, I don't want to break your bubble, because the butcher's nails seems that are already kicking in. You shouldn't however, make statements that may mislead other players.

 

I didn't say EC wasn't good, just that he's not the ultimate (a word you seem to like much) character killer. He is a good chap, with good buffing aura(s) and good in melee, but lacks mobility and an invulnerable save. You still making boasts without showing proof, and any unsupported claim should be discarded.

 

If you show me proof (numbers, not anecdotal evidence) that supports that he's the ultimate character killer, I'll happily change my mind.

>"b-but you wont always get the charge!"

Not with that attitude ;)

 

Meh, he does more damage to those characters you cherry-picked than any of the non-named options in our codex. Your charge argument also applies to virtually all characters, regardless of damage/durability/power level they are much more likely to win if they get the charge. He remains the ultimate character killer for his points short of Abby, Khârn and the like, heck he'll eat Khârn for breakfast if he charges him, the fact that most of the charactes you mentioned as him being unable to kill are faction leaders only reinforces my points.

 

So anything with 6 or less wounds and a 4++ or less is simply going to die (most of the SM characters) and he still has a good chance of killing 3++ characters, though lower than average. All of this for less points than any lord, he's killing higher PL characters :D

Edited August 18, 2017 by Berzerker88

[Brother Aiwass]

You were the one stating that he can kill "most" named characters not me, so is not cherry picking, is showing you what you can't kill :P

 

And you forgot Huron in that list.

 

Problem with EC being a hunter is that (again) he lacks mobility (this can be solved with sorcery but then, he'll be on his own in the middle of the enemy army) and an invulnerable save. So he can be shoot to death, avoided (take in account that a random Tau commander has a Mv value of 8" and 20" with an XV86 suit) or blocked.

 

Enemy characters aren't going to be sitting on the outside, but in the middle of retinues/hordes. You can't deal with 30 orks and a warboss with 9 zerks and an EC (fitting in a rhino/claw as you said) to get to the boss (you're killing ~16 orks IIRC which leaves you facing ~14 angry orks and a boss to retaliate, and if the other player isn't drunk you wouldn't be on btb with the boss on the charge, but you may be after he consolidates or make an heroic intervention and your chances of being dead are high.

 

You may take a player by surprise because he doesn't know what the EC can do, but you can only do this a number of times (i.e. once).

 

Again, he is good, but not that good. Feel free to disagree however, and play him the way you like it.

[MoK]

I'm taking blobs.

1x EC with 10x Berzerkers X3

1x Helbrute with 10x Chaos Marines X3

Khârn with 20x Cultist fodder

[Commissar K.]

Blobs seem fine! I think you do want and need some good anti tank options there, as I do not feel any CSM army has what it thakes to just run up there and make the other side to smash down enough. In many cases not even Tyranids and Orks can fully do that and they have the hordes to support it and the Morale immunity to make sure that the only losses from ranged attacks are due to opponent dice rolls and failed armour saves.

In any case, the first Berzerker since 2006 has hit my table again, it's still very far from finished as the Gold paint really doesn't cover nicely and I'm certain I have to go over it two to three times, bring it back with a wash and then apply another round or two of highlights. But it's a start right!



Funny thing remains that I planned to do the same scheme with my AoS army so I'm really looking forward to how long this type of paintjob is going to excite me. Nontheless I like the metallic red and the gloss shine it has. By large because it is a different thake on doing metallics and while I love painting regular reds I always end up with it looking quite flat, even with the highlights.

As we speak though Im still looking very much forward to continue the World Eater project. Cheers!

[Rodrick]

any thoughts on Daemon princes?  until the new Codex Chaos Daemons is released there's big difference between units,

 

i kinda prefer unstoppable ferocity on my princes

[Commissar K.]

any thoughts on Daemon princes?  until the new Codex Chaos Daemons is released there's big difference between units,

 

i kinda prefer unstoppable ferocity on my princes

Well we certainly can't beat what the others can present now in terms of Daemon Princes with melee power. Which in itself is a bit daft. With this I mean that especially with the additional Psycic Powers the Khorne Daemon Prince per default is the weakest of them all. As an additional attack doesn't come remotely close to that of the functionality a Psyker or Psycic Power presents.

 

A Khorne/World Eater Daemon Prince will still just do fine thaking the Talisman of Burning Blood is a nice pro. 

[Berzerker88]

You were the one stating that he can kill "most" named characters not me, so is not cherry picking, is showing you what you can't kill :P

You didn't mention most :P

 

And you forgot Huron in that list.

 

Problem with EC being a hunter is that (again) he lacks mobility (this can be solved with sorcery but then, he'll be on his own in the middle of the enemy army) and an invulnerable save. So he can be shoot to death, avoided (take in account that a random Tau commander has a Mv value of 8" and 20" with an XV86 suit) or blocked.

That's what transports are for.

 

Enemy characters aren't going to be sitting on the outside, but in the middle of retinues/hordes. You can't deal with 30 orks and a warboss with 9 zerks and an EC (fitting in a rhino/claw as you said) to get to the boss (you're killing ~16 orks IIRC which leaves you facing ~14 angry orks and a boss to retaliate, and if the other player isn't drunk you wouldn't be on btb with the boss on the charge, but you may be after he consolidates or make an heroic intervention and your chances of being dead are high.

Good thing my entire army doesn't consist of the EC and 9 berzerkers then ;)

 

Also, pretty sure the 74 (I counted chainswords) attacks from the 9 berzerkers ar killing more than 16 boys a turn. Could be wrong though.

 

You may take a player by surprise because he doesn't know what the EC can do, but you can only do this a number of times (i.e. once).

An argument which applies to all assassins. Not all characters all the same and not all players will go to the same lenghts to protect them. The beautiful fact remains that the EC doesn't need to go out of his way to exert tremendous pressure due to his reroll aura, but he WILL murder any HQ that he charges save for those who are specially tough, thus threatening glass-canon/buff-centered characters that are way ahead in points cost.