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[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Does Deathwatch have any advantage by taking Primaris anyway? I mean something else than vanilla Marines, Blood Angels or Dark Angels?

Yes. The Deathwatch forum on this board discusses it frequently. After the new points drops, Inceptors,Intercessors, and Hellblasters are more points-efficient than most Deathwatch units, especially in terms of durability. Basically you take them as your objective holders and fire support....with actual DW datasheets used as gimmick-laden shock units.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

So, game is done. Contact Lost. Spearhead Assault deployment.

 

I went first and got Termies and berzerkers into his right flank....failing all charges....even with Icons of Wrath, except for Termie Lord.

 

Berserkers got deleted. Termie Lord killed 3 Kill Team members and then died.

 

HOWEVER....

I got crazy Advance rolls 1st turn and then 2nd turn, the Brute and the Contemptor got into CC undamaged, followed by the Fiends a turn later.

 

Terminators whiffed and had to blow Fury of Khorne just to finish off a 5 man Intercessor Squad.

 

Next turn, Double Chainsword guy dismounted and it was Go Time against his central Kill Team holding an important objecive. I charged first with the 7 Berserkers, expecting at least 2 or 3 to live to deny overwatch on the Lord and the Exalted Champion.

 

2 Frag Cannons killed them ALL. 16 hits, 14 wounds. Way too many saves. Bye bye. Even my opponent was shocked.

 

Exalted Champ and Lord then decided to charge 5 Vanguard Vets instead. Double Chainsword guy deleted them with Mortals alone. It was insane. We worked it out that he would have killed 7 if there were more enemies present. Crazy effective.

 

Then both later got deleted by Frag Cannons from hell, though the EC took out a charging Chaplain and one Marine with shooting first.

 

The Cutter Fiend was busy eating the Intercessors and the remains of another Kill Team....he killed 3 Primaris Marines and 2 KT members with Magma Cutters over the course of the game. 2 of them on Overwatch when they charged.

 

The Terminators eventually found the "On" button and killed his Repulsor with Chainfists, in addition to dropping his Warlord to 1 wound....and then he rolled for the dead Repulsor....got a 3. Spent a command point because he really wanted it to blow....and it did, taking out two terminators, seriously wounding the Lasher Fiend, but also killing his Warlord and Captain Artemis. Remaining two termies died to Frag Cannons, as did the Lasher Fiend later on when he charged on Turn 4.

 

Seriously, my opponent's rolling for his Frag Cannons was INSANE, regardless of mode. Cutter Fiend finally got in when their luck ran out and ended them.

 

Contemptor and Helbrute died, but deleted his Hellblasters and wounded both his Warlord and Captain Artemis (who caught an overwatch Multi-Melta to the face and was reduced to 1 wound), as well as taking 8 wounds of the Repulsor so the Termies could finish it.

 

Dreadclaw did WORK....drawing fire and holding its own in CC, plus chasing his Inceptors all over the place. It got killed by his Blackstar on Turn 6 after his Inceptors made way too many saves and fell back from CC.

 

In the end, game stopped on Turn 6 with one Maulerfiend, 2 Inceptors, and a Blackstar on the table.

 

He was up 15 Maelstrom Points to 9 because of one turn where he had 4 objectives and that meant he got 4 pulls.... drew into some good cards that really spiked his total.

 

If I had managed to kill those 2 Inceptors (successfully charged them with the Apostle and the Claw at different points...they killed the Apostle in CC), he would have been tabled. Close game for most of it. Good fight and the army performed pretty well.

 

I was kinda angry, though, that I didn't get to use Daemonforge or Vets at ALL because I was burning all my command points on key saves, failed melta wounds, and on charges...that and the Fury of Khorne that I had to use to break my Termies free when they let me down. Basically I had to use CP to get the army to do what it should have been able to do without them. Still almost won, though.

Edited December 23, 2017 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Commissar K.]

Thanks for sharing mate! Sometimes dice are against us. I even sometimes use Stratagems to try and secure the charge. Re-rolling a one from a 1 and 6 is better as to re-roll the whole result. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Thanks for sharing mate! Sometimes dice are against us. I even sometimes use Stratagems to try and secure the charge. Re-rolling a one from a 1 and 6 is better as to re-roll the whole result.

Had to do that on the Helbrute. Was using only the Icons in case a non-Icon charge flubbed at some point...and it did.

 

Still impressed with how badly I mauled him DESPITE the early dice.

[Commissar K.]

 

Thanks for sharing mate! Sometimes dice are against us. I even sometimes use Stratagems to try and secure the charge. Re-rolling a one from a 1 and 6 is better as to re-roll the whole result.

Had to do that on the Helbrute. Was using only the Icons in case a non-Icon charge flubbed at some point...and it did.

 

Still impressed with how badly I mauled him DESPITE the early dice.

 

Yeah with regular dice I'd still say Berzerker heavy forces have a lot to say about the outcome of a game. As mentioned before I've been catching myself more often to drift away from Daemon Princes in order to fit in more Berzerker units. In the end the combat difference they make is massive and the more places we can apply their melee output the better it usually ends out for us.

 

Having said that, offcourse versus Tyranids and Orks this outcome might be very different.

 

Cheers,

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing mate! Sometimes dice are against us. I even sometimes use Stratagems to try and secure the charge. Re-rolling a one from a 1 and 6 is better as to re-roll the whole result.

Had to do that on the Helbrute. Was using only the Icons in case a non-Icon charge flubbed at some point...and it did.

 

Still impressed with how badly I mauled him DESPITE the early dice.

Yeah with regular dice I'd still say Berzerker heavy forces have a lot to say about the outcome of a game. As mentioned before I've been catching myself more often to drift away from Daemon Princes in order to fit in more Berzerker units. In the end the combat difference they make is massive and the more places we can apply their melee output the better it usually ends out for us.

 

Having said that, offcourse versus Tyranids and Orks this outcome might be very different.

 

Cheers,

Hilariously, not a single Berserker ever made combat due to failed charges and the aforementioned Frag Cannon apocalypse.

 

However, they attracted attention that allowed the heavier units to do work. Makes sense as a general rule because the opponent MUST get rid of them ASAP or take huge damage.

 

Berserker Hordes seem to do well in tournaments, usually either Alpha Legion on foot or World Eaters in Rhinos and/or pods.

[Commissar K.]

Not that cool to hear that not a single Berserker made combat. Hope for a little more average luck on your side for the next battles. In general I believe Berserkers are very competitively designed and indeed with Alpha Legion even easier to use but even more potent in combat within a Rhino or Dreadclaw. The latter two are my prefered choices and well... They work! I get that some non-CSM players still might think Berserkers as a single model are a bit cheap but since you basically need a Transport I feel the total cost picture is right where it has to be.

In addition I'm also very happy with the Khorne spoilers for Chaos Daemons so far! Knowing that the mix of the two basically leads to full close combat I'm still going to experiment with the designs. The Bloodthirsters seem to have become even better and I do really like the confirmed re-roll on charges for them too. All those re-rolls should still lead to something reaching combat in time  

Next to that it's always cool to use Bloodletters and Berzerkers, as I love my AoS Khorne mixed army as much too. I personally believe mono God armies will be a very solid choice in 2018. All the while the mixes will be very potent too. Soon:

http://media.moddb.com/images/downloads/1/102/101179/Khorne-Daemonkin.png

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Commissar K.

[Sagentus]

Great to hear the latest khorne spoilers ... always wanted to get BT and bloodletters, now i have the excuse too. 

 

Will the new daemon abilities affect possessed? or daemon engines? 

[Panzer]

Will the new daemon abilities affect possessed? or daemon engines? 

As long as it uses the Daemon keyword it will affect those as well, yes. ;)

[Commissar K.]

 

Will the new daemon abilities affect possessed? or daemon engines? 

As long as it uses the Daemon keyword it will affect those as well, yes.

 

 

Exactly and this makes for some really great options.

 

Pretty much explains the Lord of Skulls cost increase too?

 

"WATCH OUT, WATCH OUT, LORDOSKULLS OUTTA NOWHERE!"

[Sagentus]

It really does ... I think the LOS needed the points increase with how OP it was bound to happen. But now its going to be deadly. 

 

Any thoughts on how itll affect forgefiends? or Drakes? as i hear they arent very good atm 

 

Certainly does open the red gates though and makes me realise i dont have enough daemon engines or any daemons in my current army. 

[Commissar K.]

Well I think that in general for Khorne armies there is a lot to consider here. Wether you want to use it to flank deepstrike a massive blob of Bloodletters, Greater Daemon or something else, all are pretty much good options. Much like the previous Dreadclaw discussions the added shock value of harrassing a flank is the prime power gained here. 

I think that for Forgefiends the added bonus isn't too massive but offcourse welcome due to otherwise Heavy+movement shooting issues, for the Heldrake not too much is gained here but I do think Heldrakes are decent allready but just not that good in killing stuff. In terms of tying things up there is little that does it so fast as a Heldrake can.

In general though the advantge for us comes from not having to stand still in order to get daemons where they need to be. Which doesn't sound like much to some but adding wave after wave of melee harrassment most certainly gets the job done. 

The more spoilers the more we will know how to shape it to our advantage :) What I like is that Daemons are cheap choices and I am more fan of their asthethic as that of Cultists.

 

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

Massed reliable deepstriking Daemons is pretty huge for us, I think- we're going to want to load up on CP more so than before. Plop some cheap spammy stuff down turn 1 so the enemy's big guns have to retreat instead of shooting at our Rhinos/Land Raiders. At the end of the day, we just need that 1 turn of movement to get into charge range with the zerks...

[Khornestar]

If one were inclined to use brimstones, they're probably the cheapest option. However, for 170 points we can have 2 renegade commanders and 3 units of cultists to form a battalion. Not bad. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Juggernut

[Commissar K.]

Massed reliable deepstriking Daemons is pretty huge for us, I think- we're going to want to load up on CP more so than before. Plop some cheap spammy stuff down turn 1 so the enemy's big guns have to retreat instead of shooting at our Rhinos/Land Raiders. At the end of the day, we just need that 1 turn of movement to get into charge range with the zerks...

Exactly. Like Age of Sigmar there is also a very functional choice between the two now which I really like. If we need numbers Bloodletters fill that task much better. If we want consistent elite chopping' the Berzerkers provide exactly what is wished for.

 

All in all 2018 will be great for mono God armies and as before I believe soups are very intentional taken into consideration for 8th edition. Daemons and World Eaters make worlds burn forever.

[Cheex]

A cheap Patrol detachment with Herald and 30 Bloodletters comes to about 300pts. I'd actually consider using Karanak for this, to get a little extra psychic defence and speed for his locus aura.

 

Add another Herald and a couple cheap squads of Bloodletters if you want to make it a Battalion detachment, should come to about 500pts but they'll be able to pay for their own deep strike and extended charge stratagems. The extra Bloodletters could then be used as backfield objective holders in place of Cultists.

 

A bit pricey, but potentially very useful.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I just finally realized something. GW has given us the answer to the "wrong boots" issue when converting Blood Warriors into Khorne Berserkers.

 

Use Goliath Gangers for their legs and any Torsos where the chest is completely enclosed. Those that have too little chest armor get snipped in half and the legs used with Blood Warrior torsos and arms from either set. Bang. Done.

[Commissar K.]

A cheap Patrol detachment with Herald and 30 Bloodletters comes to about 300pts. I'd actually consider using Karanak for this, to get a little extra psychic defence and speed for his locus aura.

 

Add another Herald and a couple cheap squads of Bloodletters if you want to make it a Battalion detachment, should come to about 500pts but they'll be able to pay for their own deep strike and extended charge stratagems. The extra Bloodletters could then be used as backfield objective holders in place of Cultists.

 

A bit pricey, but potentially very useful.

I'm a fan of this idea too. As before I prefer the design of the Bloodletters over Cultists anyday. The other additional thing I like is that spamming them still works well to saturate the board with target priorities. Especially for Khorne going with cheap characters and a lot of infantry seems to work out well every time.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Bloodthirsters and most certainly am tempted into getting a second one but they are still prio targets and do fall if opponents have enough anti-tank, which they likely should. GD's on the other hand do serve a great purpose the moment you go heavier Daemons. Something I'm tempted to eventually but I still love my WE Zerkers too. 

[Sagentus]

wonder is a soul grinder would work running up with your WE bez and bloodletters deepstriking. always liked the soul grinder model tbh 

[Commissar K.]

wonder is a soul grinder would work running up with your WE bez and bloodletters deepstriking. always liked the soul grinder model tbh 

Could be cool. As discussed in the Codex Daemons topics I think that the best use for it is really with melee orientated Daemons, engine or not. By large because of our Locus and Icons working very well in tandum with trying to make that 9" charge ;). 

 

In general though it is another boost for Daemonic engines and that's always a good thing. The Forgefiend for example doesn't have to move (if it can be used for him) which makes it ever so slighty more effective.

 

True fun is offcourse is dropping Lord of Skulls out of nowhere.

 

 

[Replicant]

I have a list that I'm building with a Contemptor with a chainclaw and Butcher Cannon and a Blood Slaughterer in it. Anyone have any suggestions/tactics for these lads? Haha

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

Haven't used the butcher cannon personally, but if I'm running Contemptors its 2 at a time and I keep them close to my Rhinos- does a great job of messing with the other guy's target priority long enough to get at least one into combat. I imagine a similar concept would work great with one of the Contemptors swapped out for that Blood Slaughterer- the nice thing about your Contemptor load out is you can easily switch tactics on the fly and have him hang back and shoot if the situation calls for it.

[Khornestar]

Have lost steam lately for the hobby, but I've gotten back into it. 

 

Crummy quality, but no details yet...

 

Two dreadclaws to drop some madmen in someone's face:

 

[Commissar K.]

Great great great!


I'm still waiting on my parts :) I have been using regular skub Drop Pods as the filler now.

Quite frankly I don't know how often I'll use it with Daemons comming up and having 60+ AoS Bloodletters for that party but it's awesome! 

[Khornestar]

I'm gonna do both. DS a unit of 30 bloodletters, 2 5-man units of berzerkers in one pod, then 9 + dark apostle in another